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Somebody on these pages recently referred to " both the contact and the non-contact versions of Rugby League". For the sake of the game TTRL must be claimed under the Rugby League banner world wide. There can be no doubt that these versions of the code are unequivocally RL orientated. 

TTRL should be a part of the Rugby League World Cup as soon as 2025. With 16 of the worlds best mens and womens teams representing their home nations. If the other code reciprocates it will only highlight to all who watch how much TTR is more like our game than theirs.

It is important as a code that we send a message to players of TTR world wide, no matter what code their allegiance is with, the sport they play every week is born from Rugby League.

Henceforth TTR playing numbers, no matter what their allegiance, should be included in Rugby League participation numbers. It must be recognised there are two versions of our code. The contact and the non-contact version.

For too long we have allowed this variation of the game to be hijacked by union. By including it in our World Cup it will be a bold statement staking our rightful claim to be the originator of these forms of the sport.

An added advantage is that companies and potential sponsors may start to view it the same way.

 

 

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Every point you blokes make are legitimate reasons why this version of the sport should be considered part of the Rugby League family.  Like it or not RL is a physically demanding sport where not

Somebody on these pages recently referred to " both the contact and the non-contact versions of Rugby League". For the sake of the game TTRL must be claimed under the Rugby League banner world wide. T

But I'm talking about a non tackle version of RL, with RL in the name. Sets of 6, play the balls, kick when you want. Basically RL sevens without tackling. The main point though would be to have

5 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

We should start a movement on here and set up tag/touch tournaments at local clubs with a view to expanding it if it takes off. Just call it RL tag or RL touch

 

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s already a Try Tag Rugby World Cup. 

https://trytagrugby.com/london/representative/tag-rugby-world-cup/

 

But we have to have TTRL unquestionably associated with Rugby League to gain full value from it. By having a version of it at our WC would allow us to claim it as our own. Especially with countries competing to send their best team to the Rugby League World Cup.

In OZ the figures in 2019 were 170 000 registered contact RL players,  680 000 playing non-contact versions. I bet those proportions are the same everywhere. We have to change the public perceptions of origins of TTRL.

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43 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s already a Try Tag Rugby World Cup. 

https://trytagrugby.com/london/representative/tag-rugby-world-cup/

 

But I'm talking about a non tackle version of RL, with RL in the name. Sets of 6, play the balls, kick when you want. Basically RL sevens without tackling.

The main point though would be to have it under the RFL umbrella and let everyone know it's RL

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I play touch rugby regularly and two people in my club have played for England last year at the Touch World Cup in Malaysia.

 

Its definitely a faster, high intensity low contact game with a lot in common structurally with Rugby League except no kicking.

 

Quite a few major League players like Shaun Johnson and Kalyn Ponga were also renowned Touch players.

 

Daejarn Asi who has broken into the North Queensland Cowboys side at 6 this year was a member of the Gold medal winning Aussie Men’s Open team at the Touch World Cup.

 

Our halves and spine players generally should be encouraged to play the low-contact versions of Rugby to unleash their creative instincts.

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1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

 

But we have to have TTRL unquestionably associated with Rugby League to gain full value from it. By having a version of it at our WC would allow us to claim it as our own. Especially with countries competing to send their best team to the Rugby League World Cup.

In OZ the figures in 2019 were 170 000 registered contact RL players,  680 000 playing non-contact versions. I bet those proportions are the same everywhere. We have to change the public perceptions of origins of TTRL.

Try Tag Rugby in the Uk is RFL affiliated. I do like the idea of it being part of the RLWC along side the men’s, women’s and wheelchair, could really help promote TR and RL more 

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Nice one Rocket.

The 680/170 thousand ratio, is four to one. I wonder if the ratio is similar in the UK?

Anyway whatever it is, claiming them as rugby league players would massively increase our participation numbers which must influence Sports Council grants.

I can't believe we've not (rightfully) claimed them as part of our game.

This must go down as one of our biggest blunders and should be corrected immediately.

I agree that it should be incorporated in our World Cup.

Each match could feature the same nations playing Touch as a curtain raiser. 

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6 hours ago, arcticchris said:

Our halves and spine players generally should be encouraged to play the low-contact versions of Rugby to unleash their creative instincts.

 

6 hours ago, JM2010 said:

But I'm talking about a non tackle version of RL, with RL in the name. Sets of 6, play the balls, kick when you want. Basically RL sevens without tackling.

The main point though would be to have it under the RFL umbrella and let everyone know it's RL

 

5 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Try Tag Rugby in the Uk is RFL affiliated. I do like the idea of it being part of the RLWC along side the men’s, women’s and wheelchair, could really help promote TR and RL more 

 

5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Nice one Rocket.

The 680/170 thousand ratio, is four to one. I wonder if the ratio is similar in the UK?

Anyway whatever it is, claiming them as rugby league players would massively increase our participation numbers which must influence Sports Council grants.

I can't believe we've not (rightfully) claimed them as part of our game.

This must go down as one of our biggest blunders and should be corrected immediately.

I agree that it should be incorporated in our World Cup.

Each match could feature the same nations playing Touch as a curtain raiser. 

Every point you blokes make are legitimate reasons why this version of the sport should be considered part of the Rugby League family. 

Like it or not RL is a physically demanding sport where not everyone can participate in the full contact version, it should not reduce their right to participate in a fully fledged and affiliated version of the sport .

What other business would let their product be sold under a different name and not take advantage of having developed that product. Because that is what we are effectively doing by not reaping the rewards of a very popular offshoot of our product. 

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11 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Nice one Rocket.

The 680/170 thousand ratio, is four to one. I wonder if the ratio is similar in the UK?

Anyway whatever it is, claiming them as rugby league players would massively increase our participation numbers which must influence Sports Council grants.

I can't believe we've not (rightfully) claimed them as part of our game.

This must go down as one of our biggest blunders and should be corrected immediately.

I agree that it should be incorporated in our World Cup.

Each match could feature the same nations playing Touch as a curtain raiser. 

I`ve cited Ireland a few times in a Tag context. This is because it`s where Tag has grown the fastest outside of Aus, NZ, and South-East England. The Irish RL clubs could recruit Ladies League Tag teams from amongst the many female Oztag players. 

This would mean every time they hired a pitch and goalposts they could play two games, League Tag followed by men`s Tackle. So, two sets of players, two sets of supporting family and friends. And in reference to the above-mentioned ratio, a very good chance that they`ll be fielding a second LLT team sooner than in men`s Tackle.

Everyone involved in a development area would do well to look at Illawarra, Newcastle, Central Coast and a few other NSW Country groups to see how LLT is integrated in the clubs and their gameday schedule. The benefits in increased participation and memberships have been substantial.

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21 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Somebody on these pages recently referred to " both the contact and the non-contact versions of Rugby League". For the sake of the game TTRL must be claimed under the Rugby League banner world wide. There can be no doubt that these versions of the code are unequivocally RL orientated. 

TTRL should be a part of the Rugby League World Cup as soon as 2025. With 16 of the worlds best mens and womens teams representing their home nations. If the other code reciprocates it will only highlight to all who watch how much TTR is more like our game than theirs.

It is important as a code that we send a message to players of TTR world wide, no matter what code their allegiance is with, the sport they play every week is born from Rugby League.

Henceforth TTR playing numbers, no matter what their allegiance, should be included in Rugby League participation numbers. It must be recognised there are two versions of our code. The contact and the non-contact version.

For too long we have allowed this variation of the game to be hijacked by union. By including it in our World Cup it will be a bold statement staking our rightful claim to be the originator of these forms of the sport.

An added advantage is that companies and potential sponsors may start to view it the same way.

 

 

Needless to say I strongly agree with all of this. The phrase highlighted on the thread about code wars bears repeating. - "Those who play the game are many more times likely to attend, buy merchandise, and otherwise support the game".

If an RL governing body accept this truth, when they combine it with another truth that not enough people will ever be willing to play Tackle RL, it should lead them to the conclusion that putting all their eggs in the Tackle basket is destined to fail, in terms of building a fanbase.

If for monies invested we got 4 Tag players for every 1 tackle player, why would we spend all our resources on Tackle, or judge success only on our Tackle player numbers?

Its similar to the creation of mini and mod League, where we realised that the offer our clubs were previously making was not attracting or retaining as many juniors in the game.

There are clubs (good examples are Glenfield and East Coast Bays on Auckland`s North Shore), who don`t have an independent senior team. So, they focus their brand for the time being on their junior grades. This doesn`t mean they won`t re-establish a senior team one day. But if the mini and mod changes had not managed to keep their junior section strong, they wouldn`t have much of a club at all.

 

 

Edited by unapologetic pedant
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Touch and tag could attract a lot of people to their local club. I played tackle all my life but am past the age where I can play it now. I would definitely still play in a tag league if one was available though and I know quite a few others who would do the same. It could also be marketed at workplaces etc to enter teams into a midweek comp, a bit like Soccer sixes, which could be hosted  by a local club. Any players in the midweek comp could then be enticed to represent the club in a more organised league against other RL clubs

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1 minute ago, JM2010 said:

Touch and tag could attract a lot of people to their local club. I played tackle all my life but am past the age where I can play it now. I would definitely still play in a tag league if one was available though and I know quite a few others who would do the same. It could also be marketed at workplaces etc to enter teams into a midweek comp, a bit like Soccer sixes, which could be hosted  by a local club. Any players in the midweek comp could then be enticed to represent the club in a more organised league against other RL clubs

Funny thing that, my brother-in-law played league all through his youth and into his twenties until it became a bit too demanding, especially having to go to work every day. He took up union and it was quite funny because he was slaying them, despite only ever being a run-of-the mill Leaguie. Since he hit his 40`s he now plays soccer. This only highlights the need we have in providing something like what you described above to keep them in the game especially when they are introducing their own children into sport. His son, my nephew, now plays union. He is a stocky little fellow and they play him on the wing, every time I see him I say " there is money in halfbacks", because he is an intelligent little fellow and I reckon he would make a pretty good little organising League halfback.

There is an excellent post by Unapologetic Pedant at the bottom of page three ` Growth of the Game` thread describing the various varieties of TTRL and their suitability for different scenarios.

 

 

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1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Needless to say I strongly agree with all of this.

You should, because I think " the somebody on these page(who) recently referred..." was yourself.

Your previous references to Ireland and the lack of profile League has in that nation , despite the popularity of TTRL forms of the game, was certainly something I had in mind when thinking about their World Cup participation in one of these forms of the game.

Even the process of selecting a national team, with so many competitions obviously having no League affiliation, yet wanting to select the very best players, may involve treading on a few union toes. However the enticement of playing in high profile RLWC, and  possibly  representing your nation in front of 50 000 at Old Trafford ( is that where the WC final will be held?)as the introductory game and Final in itself, before the Womens and Mens World Cup Finals, would surely tempt any prospective code-hopper.

And I would be very surprised, if for example an Irish TTRL team made it deep into the tournament, that it would not garner a fair amount of publicity back home and attract more than a few eyeballs if not even attendees. If not devotees.

This scenario I would like to think would apply to any country where League plays second fiddle to union yet where the non-contact version of our sport is popular.

Edited by The Rocket
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On 07/09/2020 at 08:07, The Rocket said:

You should, because I think " the somebody on these page(who) recently referred..." was yourself.

Your previous references to Ireland and the lack of profile League has in that nation , despite the popularity of TTRL forms of the game, was certainly something I had in mind when thinking about their World Cup participation in one of these forms of the game.

Even the process of selecting a national team, with so many competitions obviously having no League affiliation, yet wanting to select the very best players, may involve treading on a few union toes. However the enticement of playing in high profile RLWC, and  possibly  representing your nation in front of 50 000 at Old Trafford ( is that where the WC final will be held?)as the introductory game and Final in itself, before the Womens and Mens World Cup Finals, would surely tempt any prospective code-hopper.

And I would be very surprised, if for example an Irish TTRL team made it deep into the tournament, that it would not garner a fair amount of publicity back home and attract more than a few eyeballs if not even attendees. If not devotees.

This scenario I would like to think would apply to any country where League plays second fiddle to union yet where the non-contact version of our sport is popular.

There will be an opportunity to observe our Northern Hemisphere Tag predicament if the "Tag Rugby World Cup" goes ahead in August next year as scheduled in Limerick. The title tells you everything. The previous two tournaments held in Sunshine Coast 2015 and Coffs Harbour 2018, were variously known as "Tag World Cup", "Oztag World Cup", and "Tag Football World Cup".

Next time in Ireland it will be Rugby Rugby Rugby. All the media references will be RU, any celeb involvement will be current or former RU players. There won`t be a single mention of "League" from start to finish.

There was an article earlier this year on "The Roar" website written by an Oztag player urging his governing body to follow the example of Touch Australia and formally align with the NRL. I suspect the NRL went for Touch first because they have more players and it`s cheaper to run, but there`s no reason why it should be either/or. A sport which by dint of its highly physical nature will never be mass participation cannot have too many less demanding alternative versions to engage with. Nor can we afford to look gift horses in the mouth.

In the Southern Hemisphere, because of the greater familiarity with RL, lost ground is being recovered by the NSWRL and Auckland RL. Other Leagues will probably follow suit, and in Vic and WA they were already clued up.

Hate to be pessimistic but in the British Isles the missed opportunity might be more terminal. It may seem odd that Tag players in Britain and Ireland need heavy persuasion that their game is non-contact Rugby League, but not quite so odd if you know that Tag has grown for 20 years here without the governing body for Rugby League in this country thinking it had anything to do with them.

 

Edited by unapologetic pedant
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5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

when they combine it with another truth that not enough people will ever be willing to play Tackle RL, it should lead them to the conclusion that putting all their eggs in the Tackle basket is destined to fail, in terms of building a fanbase.

You have made this assertion elsewhere with equal force and it is one that I have certainly agreed with for quite a while myself. Yet it seems often to be the dirty little secret that no true League loyalist would ever utter in public or even admit to.

Yet in this era of declining birthrates, the consequent smaller families and the resultant over protective parenting as anxious mums and dads protect their diminished broods it is no wonder that parents are directing their only son or daughter into perceived less physical past times.( Chad Townsend is not helping things however).  I witnessed a boy form an aspirational local family recently be made to wear headgear and a mouth guard while playing soccer. Poor kid, thank goodness he threw them away after about 20 minutes. Not much chance of him playing League though without full body armour.

But getting back to your original point, your point is an astute one. And echoes a similar response that I was formulating for articchris, in regards his observation re: Kalyn Ponga and Shaun Johnson. My thought was that if there were sufficient numbers in TTRL then it would be very likely League talent scouts or even just local league coaches or their associates would be keeping a close eye on the talent in those formats . Ready to tap some kid on the shoulder and say "you interested in coming over and having a run with the u16`s". One of my  proudest moments in sport was when our primary school rep team was short and the coach came to my year 5 class and in front of the class said Rocket " do you think you can play fullback for us this arvo ?". I dropped everything and walked out of that room feeling like the real Rocket. 

The story I heard regards Brian Fletcher ,Roosters, NSW and OZ star was similar, happy just playing `park` footy with his mates, spotted by a talent scout, convinced to give it a go and the rest is history.

Yes , I think you are right It could be another way of easing people into the game.

 

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28 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Hate to be pessimistic but in the British Isles the missed opportunity might be more terminal. It may seem odd that Tag players in Britain and Ireland need heavy persuasion that their game is non-contact Rugby League, but not quite so odd if you know that Tag has grown for 20 years here without the governing body for Rugby League in this country thinking it had anything to do with them.

I think that is why we would have to go for the killer blow and put in the WC.

WheelChair Cup Final, followed by the Final of the Men`s and Womens TTRL , and then of course the Mens and Womens Rugby League Cup Finals. The union can`t do that, surely a game simulating League in their big tournament would be a bridge too far, they can not offer it that prestige. Any way you live there, I do not, probably too much sun down here, you lose perspective.

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There is issue that both Tag and Touch have international governing bodies as opposed to Rugby 7s, which like Union, is governed by World Rugby.

https://www.internationaltouch.org

http://www.internationaltagfootball.com

These two organisations are not currently on the radar with GAISF, but would be far better equipped to be recognised internationally as the governors of their sports before IRL is.

The unfortunate circumstance is that both organisations are the ones holding the registrations and would be unlikely to consider becoming a sub branch of RL without a significant benefit. A financial commitment comes to mind.

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25 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

You have made this assertion elsewhere with equal force and it is one that I have certainly agreed with for quite a while myself. Yet it seems often to be the dirty little secret that no true League loyalist would ever utter in public or even admit to.

Yet in this era of declining birthrates, the consequent smaller families and the resultant over protective parenting as anxious mums and dads protect their diminished broods it is no wonder that parents are directing their only son or daughter into perceived less physical past times.( Chad Townsend is not helping things however).  I witnessed a boy form an aspirational local family recently be made to wear headgear and a mouth guard while playing soccer. Poor kid, thank goodness he threw them away after about 20 minutes. Not much chance of him playing League though without full body armour.

But getting back to your original point, your point is an astute one. And echoes a similar response that I was formulating for articchris, in regards his observation re: Kalyn Ponga and Shaun Johnson. My thought was that if there were sufficient numbers in TTRL then it would be very likely League talent scouts or even just local league coaches or their associates would be keeping a close eye on the talent in those formats . Ready to tap some kid on the shoulder and say "you interested in coming over and having a run with the u16`s". One of my  proudest moments in sport was when our primary school rep team was short and the coach came to my year 5 class and in front of the class said Rocket " do you think you can play fullback for us this arvo ?". I dropped everything and walked out of that room feeling like the real Rocket. 

The story I heard regards Brian Fletcher ,Roosters, NSW and OZ star was similar, happy just playing `park` footy with his mates, spotted by a talent scout, convinced to give it a go and the rest is history.

Yes , I think you are right It could be another way of easing people into the game.

 

To some extent the NRL saw coming the burgeoning reluctance of parents to let their children play RL. It was partly behind the change to minis and mods, and now there are all the "League safe" protocols.

This is a bit of Andrew Voss commentary from the Eels/Roosters game earlier this year  - "Sivo has trampled Tedesco, call an ambulance, maybe call a priest". This followed by the pundit saying Teddy had "put his body on the line" as he was lead off looking seriously worse for wear.

The fact that I`ve got that fixed verbatim in my mind indicates how terrific I thought the whole thing was. However, if junior watching on the couch says "Mum, I wanna play Rugby League", it`s unlikely he`ll get his wish if she`s got ambulances and priests on her mind. Does she want him to be "trampled" or "put his body on the line".

Notwithstanding your reference to a young Soccer player being over-zealously protected, there`s definitely been a drift towards parents in traditional Aussie RL areas seeing Soccer as a safer option. Every RL club needs to be offering versions perceived to be safe. It doesn`t matter whether they graduate to Tackle. Some will, some won`t. As long as they join our clubs rather than those of other sports.

Instead of "No, you can`t play RL, but you can play Soccer", we want "No, you can`t play Tackle, but you can play Tag or Touch".

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is issue that both Tag and Touch have international governing bodies as opposed to Rugby 7s, which like Union, is governed by World Rugby.

https://www.internationaltouch.org

http://www.internationaltagfootball.com

These two organisations are not currently on the radar with GAISF, but would be far better equipped to be recognised internationally as the governors of their sports before IRL is.

The unfortunate circumstance is that both organisations are the ones holding the registrations and would be unlikely to consider becoming a sub branch of RL without a significant benefit. A financial commitment comes to mind.

and there we go - because no one bothered at the time, I agree with you the ship has sailed, unless we really think that IRL is going to hose cash at them to come under the umbrella?

20-odd posts of common sense and good ideas, shot away because 2 decades ago the RL international authorities showed about as much grasp of strategy and long term planning as they do now.

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Ashleigh Seddon is a "social inclusion officer" at the RFL she has been at the heart of sending the return to play correspondence out when it comes to X-league (used to be Euro tag) but now comes under the RFL banner. 

When I was setting up our teams I went with X-league as our non contact form as England Touch are their own organisation and to be a registered team you need to pay them. Try tag rugby run out of different venues but are franchised with the equipment etc. X-league is the cheapest and easiest option and also the most like rugby league due to the kicking. 

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1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is issue that both Tag and Touch have international governing bodies as opposed to Rugby 7s, which like Union, is governed by World Rugby.

https://www.internationaltouch.org

http://www.internationaltagfootball.com

These two organisations are not currently on the radar with GAISF, but would be far better equipped to be recognised internationally as the governors of their sports before IRL is.

The unfortunate circumstance is that both organisations are the ones holding the registrations and would be unlikely to consider becoming a sub branch of RL without a significant benefit. A financial commitment comes to mind.

 

41 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

and there we go - because no one bothered at the time, I agree with you the ship has sailed, unless we really think that IRL is going to hose cash at them to come under the umbrella?

20-odd posts of common sense and good ideas, shot away because 2 decades ago the RL international authorities showed about as much grasp of strategy and long term planning as they do now.

But do we even need them or their imprimatur?   I agree we need to keep the names so that the comparison is continually made with any union rival and to remind all who`s game they are playing, or do we?  I worry that creating some  new name may end up sounding like and being viewed as some funny little offshoot . Again. 

 

Edited by The Rocket
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Can't we just invite these governing bodies to associate/affiliate with IRL? 

We don't need to ''govern'' it.

Just get them to acknowledge their roots.

I think being involved in our World Cup would be a significant carrot for them to associate/affiliate to the IRL.

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

Can't we just invite these governing bodies to associate/affiliate with IRL? 

We don't need to ''govern'' it.

Just get them to acknowledge their roots.

I think being involved in our World Cup would be a significant carrot for them to associate/affiliate to the IRL.

I don't know if you've ever worked as a freelancer, but when I did I had a stock response to anyone who offered me "exposure" rather than cash....

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