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The Rocket

Touch/Tag Rugby League TTRL

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3 hours ago, iffleyox said:

I don't know if you've ever worked as a freelancer, but when I did I had a stock response to anyone who offered me "exposure" rather than cash....

Good for you, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

The carrot I spoke of was an amalgam of cash, honour, exposure, prestige and patriotism and a host of other ''feel good'' factors.

When I mentioned the carrot (being attractive to them), I was speaking of the players, not the organisation.

I think their adminstrators role is to organise the sport in order to provide more opportunities for players to play, not to tell players what they can and cannot do. Most players I've met would give their eye teeth to play in a World Cup. 

As a general principle I'm against the administrators ''ruling'' over the players.

That's why I'm suggesting also, that we don't try to ''govern'' or subsume their organisation but merely to fraternise with them (as equals).

Why? because I see the association as a symbiotic relationship, mutually beneficial in many many ways.

 

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2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Good for you, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

The carrot I spoke of was an amalgam of cash, honour, exposure, prestige and patriotism and a host of other ''feel good'' factors.

When I mentioned the carrot (being attractive to them), I was speaking of the players, not the organisation.

I think their adminstrators role is to organise the sport in order to provide more opportunities for players to play, not to tell players what they can and cannot do. Most players I've met would give their eye teeth to play in a World Cup. 

As a general principle I'm against the administrators ''ruling'' over the players.

That's why I'm suggesting also, that we don't try to ''govern'' or subsume their organisation but merely to fraternise with them (as equals).

Why? because I see the association as a symbiotic relationship, mutually beneficial in many many ways.

 

It could work, my first thoughts were they wouldn`t touch it with a barge pole because of the strong union links that a lot of the teams would have, but when, as above, you consider it from a players perspective, the opportunity to play in a real WC, not a Tag/Touch WC, but one with real meat on its bones, culminating in a final potentially played at somewhere like Old Trafford. As you say "eye teeth".

And if, like you said, we treated those TTR organisations with respect, i.e. equals, by having the RLIF offer them a formal invitation to compete in our WC.  They could have a revolt on their hands if they said no. 

Either way the inclusion of TTRL in our WC would certainly make a lot of players of those versions of the sport sit up and maybe even start to lobby their admin bodies about why can`t we be part of that next time.

So many exciting possibilities Irish, sometimes it seems like we just need someone to grab our sport by the scruff of the neck to really realise its full potential.

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In relation to the above 5 or 6 posts, this is the problem of allowing Tag to develop separately. When a Tag governing body has invested so much time and effort building an independent existence, they`re understandably reluctant to be co-opted into the RL fold.

I agree with those who advocate holding a Tag WC alongside the Tackle WC. But the earliest that can happen is 2025. And it will be in competition with the existing Tag WC which by 2024 (Covid-permitting), will have held 4 WCs each bigger than its predecessor. There`s also the aspect I mentioned previously that next year`s event in Ireland will be all about "Tag Rugby", not "Tag Rugby League".

Therefore, the best short-term course for RL governing bodies is trying domestically to bring existing Tag Leagues, teams, and players into their ambit, together with setting up new opportunities to play Tag through RL clubs.

At the moment the template for a League attempting to bring the boat back to the harbour having missed it 20 years ago is in Auckland. Tag grew under the NZTFI. I don`t know if recently the Auckland RL made overtures to them, but if so they must have been rebuffed since the ARL has started running summer KiwiTag modules through some of their clubs. If NZTFI players would rather play in the colours and under the auspices of their local RL club, and sufficient numbers move across, eventually the NZTFI may succumb to a full takeover.

Apparently the England Touch Association formed a "strategic partnership" with the RFU in 2013. As the Rocket says, RU bodies cannot completely cover up that Tag and Touch are incontrovertibly a lot more League than Union. Hence, they will probably have been ambivalent throughout in forming alliances. But the RFU can always depend on the RFL to stuff up. And that word "Rugby" has black magic power to make people see what the RFU want them to see.

If RL gives no impression of wanting or even sensing a connection with non-contact forms of RL, then darker forces will not hesitate to snatch them from under our nose.

 

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Try Tag Rugby in the UK is a RL Variant and falls under the RFL banner. It was brought to the UK by Phil Browne (of Mascord Brownz). 

I play in the Coventry league and there is also a league in Leamington and Solihull. For me as someone who played RL I love it (though wish I was fitter!). The Coventry and Warwickshire leagues have links with Coventry Bears and are growing all the time. 

I agree that more might be done to ensure people know its RL they are playing but equally it needs to be seen as being accessible to everyone. The more people playing all versions RL the better IMO

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I would like to see the relationship between the RFL and TTR clearly stated. It`s my understanding that TTR is a completely separate body, most of whose participants on and off the field see the game they`re involved with as a version of Rugby rather than Rugby League. Observe or listen to any of their promotion, and this unfortunate fact becomes clear.

Allusions to a vague affiliation or "falls under the banner" are not sufficient for Tag to perform its instrumental function of building the RL fanbase, or magnifying the perception of the size of RL to attract greater public and private investment. That will only happen when TTR is a constituent part of the RFL, with all its players RFL- registered. I notice the Rocket is consciously writing TTRL. That`s the key. Whatever the optics, and however transparently League TTR are to us, we need them to add that vital word to their official title.

Edited by unapologetic pedant
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3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I would like to see the relationship between the RFL and TTR clearly stated. It`s my understanding that TTR is a completely separate body, most of whose participants on and off the field see the game they`re involved with as a version of Rugby rather than Rugby League. Observe or listen to any of their promotion, and this unfortunate fact becomes clear.

Allusions to a vague affiliation or "falls under the banner" are not sufficient for Tag to perform its instrumental function of building the RL fanbase, or magnifying the perception of the size of RL to attract greater public and private investment. That will only happen when TTR is a constituent part of the RFL, with all its players RFL- registered. I notice the Rocket is consciously writing TTRL. That`s the key. Whatever the optics, and however transparently League TTR are to us, we need them to add that vital word to their official title.

I did not post last night Pedant because it all seemed a bit frivolous given what is going on, however I know that being morbid is not going to help.

I did spend my evening doing a little bit of Google searching and found out a couple of things that may be of interest.

The TryTagRugby site, yes they should change their name immediately and the fact that I refer to it as TTRL has been more an instinctual thing for me. Similar to the reaction of the Australian TryTag rugby teams you mentioned in a previous post,  here the word rugby has completely different connotations. Getting back to what I was saying, the TryTag Rugby sites does have listed as its major partners the RFL and the International Tag Football Federation, ITFF, with a direct link to their home pages and vice versa. The ITFF has a picture of Bill Harrigan, although it does not say what he does, and also mentions Jeff Hardy, ex St. George and Illawarra Steeler. I suggest at least the NRL are running the show or at least up to their necks in it. Good news.

Like you noted their previous three WCs in the southern hemisphere do not mention the word `rugby` in their title, however neither is League. Tag WC,  OzTag WC & Tag Football WC. Not such an issue down here where League is entrenched, but unlike Ireland where TTRL WC would have more impact.

Anyway now what I hope is some good news. When I searched the RFU and the England Rugby websites I could find no link to or mention of TTRL competitions. Instead I found a promotion for `Ready4Rugby` apparently a union alternative. Featuring a half hearted endorsement by League loving Eddie Jones. Have they abandoned the battlefield ? The troops may still be there but the generals have fled. My God this would seem like a major victory for Rugby League. It is imperative we must strike. The insertion of that key word at a time of such vulnerability could penetrate like a lance and perhaps be that small victory that signifies a changing of fortunes. The inclusion then in our World Cup would ram home the advantage.

It seems like good news to me , the field lies open, we must advance.

 

       

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by The Rocket
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you sound like a poet Rocket. 

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14 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

you sound like a poet Rocket. 

He`s a poet, and he doesn`t know it.

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9 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

you sound like a poet Rocket. 

I`ve had exchanges with him featuring Shakespeare, Oscar Wilde, Robbie Burns. And he quoted Mr Bennet from "Pride and Prejudice"(slightly misquoted, if we`re being brutally honest).

How long before Banjo Paterson makes an appearance?

 

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4 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`ve had exchanges with him featuring Shakespeare, Oscar Wilde, Robbie Burns. And he quoted Mr Bennet from "Pride and Prejudice"(slightly misquoted, if we`re being brutally honest).

How long before Banjo Paterson makes an appearance?

 

I had written him a letter,

for the want of,

knowledge better,

 

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4 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Spoke too soon. As long you keep that dreadful song out of it. You know the one.

You have got me stumped , there is not a link with` I come from a land down under ` that I do not know about.

And by the way I deliberately misquoted Mr. Bennet, I was trying to make it sound a little more contemporary. Not everyone has your grasp of the language U.P.🙂

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Try Tag Rugby participants in the UK were all registered as RL participants for Sport England purposes. I anticipate the only way this arrangement has changed would have been with the rapidly contracting presence the RFL has in London, where the original relationship was created and fostered.

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19 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Try Tag Rugby participants in the UK were all registered as RL participants for Sport England purposes. I anticipate the only way this arrangement has changed would have been with the rapidly contracting presence the RFL has in London, where the original relationship was created and fostered.

Now SP, you have become just one big barrel of laughs lately. Ever since that stoush with Dunbar, do not let these pommies get under your skin mate. They are different to us, genetically of course we are all identical, we can trace our family back to 1350 in Suffolk, but something happens when you leave the place, you can hear it in the optimism in a lot of the Canadian posters. And everyone knows the Brits can`t stand that gushing enthusiasm of the Yanks. But of course there is something special about that little island and its people.

`This Royal throne of Kings, this sceptred isle/.....this other Eden/........this little world/  this precious stone set in the silver sea.`

Sorry mate, I should never post over here after 10.

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31 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Now SP, you have become just one big barrel of laughs lately. Ever since that stoush with Dunbar, do not let these pommies get under your skin mate. They are different to us, genetically of course we are all identical, we can trace our family back to 1350 in Suffolk, but something happens when you leave the place, you can hear it in the optimism in a lot of the Canadian posters. And everyone knows the Brits can`t stand that gushing enthusiasm of the Yanks. But of course there is something special about that little island and its people.

`This Royal throne of Kings, this sceptred isle/.....this other Eden/........this little world/  this precious stone set in the silver sea.`

Sorry mate, I should never post over here after 10.

Absolutely. Time to boil your billy and go a-waltzing into dreamland.

And no need to feel inferior. John of Gaunt is special, but so too the jolly swagman.

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47 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Now SP, you have become just one big barrel of laughs lately. Ever since that stoush with Dunbar, do not let these pommies get under your skin mate. They are different to us, genetically of course we are all identical, we can trace our family back to 1350 in Suffolk, but something happens when you leave the place, you can hear it in the optimism in a lot of the Canadian posters. And everyone knows the Brits can`t stand that gushing enthusiasm of the Yanks. But of course there is something special about that little island and its people.

`This Royal throne of Kings, this sceptred isle/.....this other Eden/........this little world/  this precious stone set in the silver sea.`

Sorry mate, I should never post over here after 10.

Haha, Dunbar is a goodun, I don’t really have beef with anyone on here. I treat it like a bunch of guys at my local. We all love the same thing. Some of us just have different opinions sometimes. I feel like calling something precious or anything else similar is like having banter around the table with a few pints under our belts 😂

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On the topic of minimum contact versions of RL. X-league is making its debut in Harrogate tonight, with a coaching and playing session. Under Harrogate Fire Ants, we our leasing our own 3G cage pitch for the hour long session. We are one of 2 teams in North Yorkshire (the other being York City Knights foundation) , interestingly thus far no team in West Yorkshire, so plenty of development work to be done 

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13 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Absolutely. Time to boil your billy and go a-waltzing into dreamland.

And no need to feel inferior. John of Gaunt is special, but so too the jolly swagman.

You are a cheeky ######, nice juxtaposition.

Yes, and tomorrow we will wrap this TTRL thread up. I think all we now is to decide what version of TTRL would be best for a World Cup. I like the Ladies Tag League you described, but we would need to think of a better name and then be able to refer to it as Womens and Mens. 

I think I can safely assume you are familiar with `Clancy of The Overflow`, there are some very beautiful images and sentiments described in that poem. Someone on here asked what is exactly the Australian Bush and that poem sprang to mind. Better than the Jolly Swagman. I`m done.

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34 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

You are a cheeky ######, nice juxtaposition.

Yes, and tomorrow we will wrap this TTRL thread up. I think all we now is to decide what version of TTRL would be best for a World Cup. I like the Ladies Tag League you described, but we would need to think of a better name and then be able to refer to it as Womens and Mens. 

I think I can safely assume you are familiar with `Clancy of The Overflow`, there are some very beautiful images and sentiments described in that poem. Someone on here asked what is exactly the Australian Bush and that poem sprang to mind. Better than the Jolly Swagman. I`m done.

If this thread is being wrapped up soon, might as well throw a Hail Mary.

As you said in a post further back, the fact that Tag is more recognisably League than Touch is, ought to deter the RFU from a Tag-grab. But in countries with negligible awareness of RL this won`t stop Tag being seen as non-contact RU.

I`ve mentioned Ireland in this regard, but there`s also South Africa who sent a team to the Tag WC for the first time in 2018. Pre-tournament they got some publicity including a TV appearance. Unsurprisingly the tenor was all Springboks, Super Rugby, RU shirts, RU footage, RU everything. League - nowhere seen or heard. 

Ladies League Tag (LLT) was launched in some NSW country areas expressly to attract more women to RL. It pre-dates the rapid growth of Women`s and girls` Tackle. And there`s a discernible link between the two, which amplifies another of your points about a proportion of players graduating to Tackle from Touch or Tag. (a number of the standouts in the QLD women`s Tackle comp that had its GF at the weekend came from Touch). Some NSW clubs` current women`s Tackle sides are the product of a demand for Tackle emerging from within their LLT sides. Some players even play contact and non-contact concurrently.

"League Tag" seems the best name for the full-size pitch, 11-aside game. At the moment it`s only for the ladies, but no reason for not having Men`s League Tag too. The cost of hiring pitches with goalposts is prohibitive, so this format has to played alongside Tackle. The extra players and space make for more intricate moves and patterns of play. All of which makes it the most appropriate for rep fixtures and to augment the RL WC.

What name we know the smaller version of Tag by is tricky. Aussies are likely to stick with "Oztag", Kiwis with "Tag Football". I`d love to think that word "Rugby" could be banished from Tag in the UK and Ireland, but realistically it will be hard to pull that fly from the ointment.

It`s disconcerting when OriginalMrC says that Tag "needs to be seen as being accessible to everyone". If a perception of Tag as non-contact RL might put some people off (presumably those with RU affections), it rather defeats the object of making converts if we give Tag a generic "Rugby" image.

The ideal scenario would be every RL club of any size running an Oztag League in its catchment area, with the option of a rep League Tag side at the weekend along with their Tackle sides. Each of the Oztag teams could wear a jersey with their team`s badge on the left and their RL parent club`s badge on the right, as do clubs in many of the junior leagues of NRL franchises.

If the RFL ran a short rep League Tag national competition, as things are, it would likely be dominated by South-East RL clubs. That`s a story which could attract wider media interest and sponsors.

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If my local club, or a nearby club, ran a proper organised tag league I'd definitely get a team together. I'd also be tempted to put my hand up for their rep team if I was good enough

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There was a proper tag league 10 years ago, that became affiliated with the RFL and helped them to get the original Sport England funding.

Prior to then, there was no laws, regulations, officials, etc. 

It saw pre-match entertainment at the Semi's of the Challenge Cup final.

This was no way part of Try Tag Rugby.

The RFL then canned it off, the league was disbanded and then only played friendlies - none of these teams play anymore. 

Tag rugby could be huge, but it won't.

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2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

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Just had a look. Need some in Bradford, Kirklees and Calderdale.

Also, would like to see the word League tagged on the end 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

There was a proper tag league 10 years ago, that became affiliated with the RFL and helped them to get the original Sport England funding.

Prior to then, there was no laws, regulations, officials, etc. 

It saw pre-match entertainment at the Semi's of the Challenge Cup final.

This was no way part of Try Tag Rugby.

The RFL then canned it off, the league was disbanded and then only played friendlies - none of these teams play anymore. 

Tag rugby could be huge, but it won't.

There's about 10,000 people playing weekly which I would say is pretty big. Most of the leagues are concentrated in London but it's growing all the time. Leagues are now in the midlands, Bristol, Manchester Yorkshire and Lancs. 

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11 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

There's about 10,000 people playing weekly which I would say is pretty big. Most of the leagues are concentrated in London but it's growing all the time. Leagues are now in the midlands, Bristol, Manchester Yorkshire and Lancs. 

The RFL really do need to advertise that it's RL. 

Super League and Chamionship teams should invite these leagues to play a round of fixtures before a league game 

Edited by JM2010
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