BLM

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

My question wasn’t to think of some instances of racism, but how is RL less inclusive than other sports? Are you saying all other sports don’t have similar issues? 

Is rugby league an inclusive sport? Not remotely. Not by the standards of what inclusivity means today.

It's certainly possible to look at other sports and see some (or, maybe, just aspects of some) that are in a better place than rugby league. It's also possible to look at others and think they are either worse or certainly no better.

Just because lots of people are racist doesn't make racism fine. Just like the world wasn't flat when a majority believed it was.

[Dave T]

I think we should have a round to support "Show racism the red card" charity. The players can show support if they like by holding up a red card pre-match. 

Of course it would be optional, but this would get rid of the arguments about BLM and kneeling only for your wife or God. 

Surely nobody would opt out of that, would they? 

Of course it would be nice if we could do something to support the RFL's anti racism initiative. 

[johnh1]

2 hours ago, Pyjamarama said:

Taking the knee for a minute before a game unfortunately hasn't eradicated racism, so we must increase the dose. One minute on the left knee then one minute on the right knee. If that doesn't work, a minute on each knee at the start of the second half as well, then review every 3 months.

How about also introducing a one minute jump up & down against global warming, then for 2021 a one minute pre-match hokey kokey against foxhunting.  

 

Great idea. And when crowds are allowed back in, ie at Catalans this weekend, the crowd should be made to join in as well. And all those watching at home who support this madness, do they join in as well. And if not, why not?

[Barry Badrinath]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we should have a round to support "Show racism the red card" charity. The players can show support if they like by holding up a red card pre-match. 

Of course it would be optional, but this would get rid of the arguments about BLM and kneeling only for your wife or God. 

Surely nobody would opt out of that, would they? 

Of course it would be nice if we could do something to support the RFL's anti racism initiative. 

in a perfect world, we probably should have committed to that slogan and organization, it gives the racists less opportunity to trot out this marxists ###### they're using as a cop out.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

in a perfect world, we probably should have committed to that slogan and organization, it gives the racists less opportunity to trot out this marxists ###### they're using as a cop out.

Wire's Black Lives Matter shirt raised proceeds for Show Racism the Red Card.

[Tommygilf]

33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we should have a round to support "Show racism the red card" charity. The players can show support if they like by holding up a red card pre-match. 

Of course it would be optional, but this would get rid of the arguments about BLM and kneeling only for your wife or God. 

Surely nobody would opt out of that, would they? 

Of course it would be nice if we could do something to support the RFL's anti racism initiative. 

I think that would be ideal. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Tre Cool said:

What has it got to do with Marxism?  Absolutely nothing.  Do you know what Marxism is?

It isn't about white guilt it's about campaigning for meaningful change to complex issues of systemic racism which make some people's life far more difficult.  It's not about an individual white person being a 'racist'.  It's about accepting that a group of people have less chances than another group of people based on the colour of their skin and trying to do something about it.

Martyn Sadler seems to think that RL shouldn't be included in this conversation as we have a relatively good record with equality.   But it's all relative and I don't see many black players making it into top coaching jobs, or working in top admin jobs at clubs or the RFL.  A number of players have come out and detailed their personal experiences of racism at clubs in RL.  I know for a fact some RL supporters are openly racist.

Why shouldn't we as a sport reflect on this and make some efforts to improve on this?

Why does it offend so many people, and apparently League Express itself,  that players want to highlight the problem and ask for some changes to make the world a slightly fairer place?

That's all it's about.

Not Marxism, not guilt, not politicising sport. 

Get over yourselves.

Spot on. It’s an anti racism movement and nothing else, anyone opposed to it is against ending racism despite the whataboutery they might try to spin.

[johnh1]

1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Spot on. It’s an anti racism movement and nothing else, anyone opposed to it is against ending racism despite the whataboutery they might try to spin.

Is that your opinion, or is it a fact? My opinion is that what you have written is absolute nonsense.

[Hela Wigmen]

57 minutes ago, Eddie said:

My question wasn’t to think of some instances of racism, but how is RL less inclusive than other sports? Are you saying all other sports don’t have similar issues? 

I’d suggest that these issues are signs of a lack of inclusivity. I don’t see any merit to comparing us to other sports, it’s something I think we do too much of anyway and I think we’d be better off looking at our own house before comparing to the “neighbours”. 

Other sports do, just because they do and we do, it doesn’t mean we’re on some sort of league table of who has it best/worst. There’s issues around inclusivity and some things have come to light over the past few months that have needed to be airing long before now. 

[Barry Badrinath]

17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Wire's Black Lives Matter shirt raised proceeds for Show Racism the Red Card.

yup, i thought this at the time, off the back of some truly horrendous comments from fellow wire 'fans'.

 

The reaction to it was terrible, as it has been across the board.

 

Personally, if i was a SL club, i'd be inviting any of these people that have been vocal and outraged about BLM to come and sit in a room, take a meeting with their black players, and say, right, if you feel THAT strongly about it, please explain to these young men why you think its wrong to support an anti racism message.

 

honestly, this last couple of months has been shocking. you know things aren't great in society, but jesus, its been eye opening how angry mad some people have become because of BLM

[Hela Wigmen]

52 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we should have a round to support "Show racism the red card" charity. The players can show support if they like by holding up a red card pre-match. 

Of course it would be optional, but this would get rid of the arguments about BLM and kneeling only for your wife or God. 

Surely nobody would opt out of that, would they? 

Of course it would be nice if we could do something to support the RFL's anti racism initiative. 

I think we don’t do enough dedicated rounds. I know we had rounds in the past (Saints used to do a lot for Help for Heroes and did a pink shirt for breast cancer once too) but that seems to have been swallowed up a bit by Magic. I’m not saying we need rounds with new shirts for every round but there’s loads that could be done. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

I think we don’t do enough dedicated rounds. I know we had rounds in the past (Saints used to do a lot for Help for Heroes and did a pink shirt for breast cancer once too) but that seems to have been swallowed up a bit by Magic. I’m not saying we need rounds with new shirts for every round but there’s loads that could be done. 

Yes. The actual rounds are surely the most important tools we can use, particularly at the moment when everyone is having to watch on TV. 

I do think we only seem to be able to concentrate on one thing at a time in RL. We are big on mental health, but seem to have given up on racism and other social issues. 

[johnh1]

4 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

yup, i thought this at the time, off the back of some truly horrendous comments from fellow wire 'fans'.

 

The reaction to it was terrible, as it has been across the board.

 

Personally, if i was a SL club, i'd be inviting any of these people that have been vocal and outraged about BLM to come and sit in a room, take a meeting with their black players, and say, right, if you feel THAT strongly about it, please explain to these young men why you think its wrong to support an anti racism message.

 

honestly, this last couple of months has been shocking. you know things aren't great in society, but jesus, its been eye opening how angry mad some people have become because of BLM

Because all lives matter. It is as simple as that. 

 

[Rupert Prince]

4 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

The problem with the whole thing is Black Lives Matter goes beyond a slogan the aims and beliefs political forces behind it leave little resemblance to what people who only look at the slogan think they are supporting,

The reaction has been to people who don't support identity politics in any form, toxic to say the least.

In my opinion identity politics in any form is alien to our overall culture, one thing that makes us better than Americans.

Society will always have problems and problematic people but i believe the direction our country was going in the majority of younger people want to put identity politics to one side.   For me racism comes from embracing identity politics.  This is why the USA is one of the worse countries for it.

We don't live in an utopia but in my life time i have seen massive improvements in peoples attitudes towards the race of others.

I really don't see this movement as positive in Britain.   But I understand the need for reform in the USA.

Correct.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes. The actual rounds are surely the most important tools we can use, particularly at the moment when everyone is having to watch on TV. 

I do think we only seem to be able to concentrate on one thing at a time in RL. We are big on mental health, but seem to have given up on racism and other social issues. 

The issue I have the mental health messaging - and this could just be what I've seen - is that it's starting to get a bit repetitive. I think there's a danger with it - and let's face it, men and mental health is an important and constantly under addressed issue - that it's become a bit of background and it really needs an in-your-face refresh.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

Because all lives matter.

 

Indeed they do. Not a single person who has taken a knee is saying they don't.

[Dunbar]

40 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

Because all lives matter. It is as simple as that. 

 

I find this the strangest comeback when people speak about their opposition to or lack of support for the Black Lives Matter movement.

As a movement Black Lives Matter exists specifically because all lives matter.

[M j M]

25 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

30 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

Because all lives matter. It is as simple as that. 

 

Indeed they do. Not a single person who has taken a knee is saying they don't.

Ah but if you say that people like johnh1 don't get the chance to play the victim.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

36 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

Because all lives matter. It is as simple as that. 

 

Funny how the all lives matter lot soon change their tune when it comes to migrant boats in the channel. 

Black lives matter has only ever been about equality. 

[Robin Evans]

3 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Funny how the all lives matter lot soon change their tune when it comes to migrant boats in the channel. 

Black lives matter has only ever been about equality. 

What a ridiculous comment

[SilentAssassin]

5 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Funny how the all lives matter lot soon change their tune when it comes to illegal migrant boats in the channel. 

Black lives matter has only ever been about equality. 

edited for accuracy.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Just now, SilentAssassin said:

edited for accuracy.

Surely all lives matter should mean all lives matter 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Surely all lives matter should mean all lives matter 

There we go. Off to AOB.

But obviously all lives matter includes the lives of everyone.

It would be a very bizarre all lives matter that had an asterisk next to it about who wasn't included.

[Robin Evans]

I sit on the left of the political spectrum. Only this have I have been called "a pc do-gooder" and "a bleeding heart liberal".

I have friends and colleagues from the BAME community. Some of the nicest kindest folk you'll ever meet and who will remains friends as long as I have a functioning memory. All have a tale to tell about discrimination. Of course their lives matter too.

I have friends and family from the lgbt community. Talk about discrimination?? In my lifetime homosexual intercourse got you locked up ffs. Marriage in church has only been possible the last couple of years.  Clause 28 was only repealed by the Blair govt. All have a tale to tell about discrimination. Lgbt lives matter too.

As a nurse I work with people with learning disabilities.  The most vulnerable, abused and discriminated against people in our society. Even the president of the United States took the ###### out of disabled people by mocking them. They have virtually no voice. No representation and quite often no capacity to advocate for themselves. I have been witness to much abuse perpetrated amongst that community who are almost always unable to resist. I will tell their tale. Their lives matter too.

There are many other examples of discrimination in our society. I care not where those folk are from. If they are in a dinghy on the channel they need safety. Yes, their lives matter too.

So when I say "all lives matter", I genuinely mean that. I'm aware there are people using that mantra for a whole different purpose and with a whole different meaning

We need unity. I accept my naivety and I don't do symbolism or tokenism so I don't buy into rainbows, badges, clapping the nhs or this kneeling carry on.

 

[Robin Evans]

Love n peace folks.