Cumbria

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Don’t see that as a big issue if games are moved around the county.

Think of St George Illawarra. A few hardcore Dragons fans in Sydney might travel to Wollongong but most of the people there will be locals.

There has to be an element of ‘greater good’ here that sees the bigger picture.

One of the problems with that is, people in each place would get hardly any ‘home’ games each year. 

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

One of the problems with that is, people in each place would get hardly any ‘home’ games each year. 

Well, you could sell STs cheaply as a momentum building sweetener. Still think that is a small minded concern, though, with respect. 

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, you could sell STs cheaply as a momentum building sweetener. Still think that is a small minded concern, though, with respect. 

Fans want to see their team regularly, not once every 8 weeks and 4 times a season. 
 

Different sport but if someone said Norwich, Ipswich, Cambridge and Colchester were going to merge into a super club who’d challenge for major honours, but the home games would rotate between the four cities/towns, nobody would go for it, even putting the rivalries aside. 

[Man of Kent]

24 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Fans want to see their team regularly, not once every 8 weeks and 4 times a season. 
 

Different sport but if someone said Norwich, Ipswich, Cambridge and Colchester were going to merge into a super club who’d challenge for major honours, but the home games would rotate between the four cities/towns, nobody would go for it, even putting the rivalries aside. 

I’d like to see it given a go. The potential of a club the entire county - a very distinct county deprived of top class sport... - could get behind is quite exciting. But if a confederation didn’t work out it could easily revert back to its constituent parts.

[Hela Wigmen]

If we are to do anything for Cumbria it should be throwing money at the amateur clubs there and not the unworkable notion of a top flight club in the county. 

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Are you suggesting a national division below league one?

It's called the NCL

And you would be hard pressed to get a barrier spot  when Kells , the Brow or the Mont play each other.......

[Eddie]

10 minutes ago, del capo said:

It's called the NCL

And you would be hard pressed to get a barrier spot  when Kells , the Brow or the Mont play each other.......

It’s not though, because there is no movement between the NCL and L1, and NCL isn’t open to the whole country. 

[del capo]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It’s not though, because there is no movement between the NCL and L1, and NCL isn’t open to the whole country. 

Not true.

NCL took in several basket case RL clubs years ago but the RFL refused to accept an upward ladder.  Rochdale Mayfield and West Hull springs to mind. Still happens today. Remember Manchester Rangers attempt to join blocked by Salford and other RL worthies ?

NCL is open to everyone. The problem is the criteria which few in the non heartlands can meet.  NCL clubs average at least 300 playing members and 10+ teams with grounds and clubhouses and none of them to my knowledge are in the red.........

[yipyee]

Create a new county team, in fact it wouldnt be new as they have already played as a county.

Play the games across the county but dont chop and change, announce the games well in advance and work with the established clubs, have double headers etc. Have a cumbrian academy feeding into this with the semi pro clubs also benefiting from the academy.

This of course would only work under a liecencing model and would need the semi pro clubs to be on board however they must know by now that SL will never happen for them

[Damien]

1 minute ago, del capo said:

Not true.

NCL took in several basket case RL clubs years ago but the RFL refused to accept an upward ladder.  Rochdale Mayfield and West Hull springs to mind. Still happens today. Remember Manchester Rangers attempt to join blocked by Salford and other RL worthies ?

NCL is open to everyone. The problem is the criteria which few in the non heartlands can meet.  NCL clubs average at least 300 playing members and 10+ teams with grounds and clubhouses and none of them to my knowledge are in the red.........

I think its right that the RFL refuse to accept an upward ladder between the NCL and League 1. Rugby League is quite unique in that below league 1 teams largely consist of amateur clubs who are from towns that already have professional clubs and mostly have no intention of being professional. We don't have an amateur league at that level of teams from Nottingham, Birmingham or wherever just waiting for their shot in the professional leagues.

[del capo]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think its right that the RFL refuse to accept an upward ladder between the NCL and League 1. Rugby League is quite unique in that below league 1 teams largely consist of amateur clubs who are from towns that already have professional clubs and mostly have no intention of being professional. We don't have an amateur league at that level of teams from Nottingham, Birmingham or wherever just waiting for their shot in the professional leagues.

Jump before you leap ?

Hemel , Gloucester , Oxford , South Wales,  Scarborough-  do I need to go on ? At least Carlisle had a half decent local league......

Get it right at the roots and you have half a chance. Sorry to have to say I'm a bottom up  rather than top down type....

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, del capo said:

Jump before you leap ?

Hemel , Gloucester , Oxford , South Wales,  Scarborough-  do I need to go on ? At least Carlisle had a half decent local league......

Get it right at the roots and you have half a chance. Sorry to have to say I'm a bottom up  rather than top down type....

I'm not really sure the relevance of that to what I said. The NCL serves a fundamentally different purpose to the professional leagues and functions perfectly well as is. Not that I disagree with the gist of what you are saying but I don't think its the place to have p&r with league 1. If we had a Football conference type league full of prospective towns and cities wanting to join league 1 I'd be all for it. We don't have that though, we have Wigan St Pats, West Hull, Thatto Heath, Rochdale Mayfield et al. All fine clubs in their own right but not prospective professional clubs.

[del capo]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not really sure the relevance of that to what I said. The NCL serves a fundamentally different purpose to the professional leagues and functions perfectly well as is. Not that I disagree with the gist of what you are saying but I don't think its the place to have p&r with league 1. If we had a Football conference type league full of prospective towns and cities wanting to join league 1 I'd be all for it. We don't have that though, we have Wigan St Pats, West Hull, Thatto Heath, Rochdale Mayfield et al. All fine clubs in their own right but not prospective professional clubs.

You may have missed the gist of my post,

Unless there are roots there  will be no crop. Parachuting  a club into semi- pro ranks does not work.

 Even Carlisle under Bell couldn't cope  -  and he had a local league ( now defunct ) with him.

I accept that I could have this totally wrong and that a pro level  insurgency without real groundings could work. Who knows ?

As for the NCL and all Tier 4  and 5 sides we  understand where we are. Payments are forbidden ( ok I know some get  ' expenses ') and that is to protect our clubs from the financial chaos above us .  An RU model might  in the future  be more appropriate but  no club I know is currently champing at the bit to go higher - I mean just look at it !!

.Covid  notwithstanding we at least will be looking forward to a resumption  for our 50k players...........

[Hopping Mad]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

The potential of a club the entire county could get behind...

Cumbria - owing to its socio-economic, cultural and topographical diversity, often described as more of a country than a county - just isn't like that, I'm afraid. I lived and worked there for five years in the 1980s. Many of the locals have extremely limited horizons. 'Westies' would leave the district once a month, to go shopping in Carlisle ("The Big City") and leave the county once a year (for a two-week holiday somewhere hot). Plenty west Cumbria residents haven't set foot on Lakeland's fells let alone been to Penrith or Windermere. In just about every respect you can think of, Whitehaven, say, has as much in common with Kendal as Batley does with Barnet. I remember doing a summer's day circular walk from Grayrigg, over towards the Howgills. Got chatting to an elderly couple. Mentioned I was living in Whitehaven. "Ooh, we've never been there," they said. "What are you doing over here?" Good God.

On top of that, away from Cumbria's Ulverston-Barrow-Millom-Egremont-Whitehaven-Workington-Maryport coastal strip, there is very little interest in rugby league. By and large, Kendal and Penrith people don't go to Whitehaven!

[del capo]

9 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

Cumbria - owing to its socio-economic, cultural and topographical diversity, often described as more of a country than a county - just isn't like that, I'm afraid. I lived and worked there for five years in the 1980s. Many of the locals have extremely limited horizons. 'Westies' would leave the district once a month, to go shopping in Carlisle ("The Big City") and leave the county once a year (for a two-week holiday somewhere hot). Many in west Cumbria haven't set foot on Lakeland's fells let alone been to Penrith or Windermere. In just about every respect you can think of, Whitehaven, say, has as much in common with Kendal as Batley does with Barnet. I remember doing a summer's day circular walk from Grayrigg, over towards the Howgills. Got chatting to an elderly couple. Mentioned I was living in Whitehaven. "Ooh, we've never been there," they said. "What are you doing over here?" Good God.

On top of that, away from Cumbria's Ulverston-Barrow-Millom-Egremont-Whitehaven-Workington-Maryport coastal strip, there is very little interest in rugby league.

 That's 2/3rd of the county's population . They are definitely different up there but RL is their national sport. Just wish it could be promulgated east of Cockermouth,,,,,,,,,,,

[Route66]

9 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

Cumbria - owing to its socio-economic, cultural and topographical diversity, often described as more of a country than a county - just isn't like that, I'm afraid. I lived and worked there for five years in the 1980s. Many of the locals have extremely limited horizons. 'Westies' would leave the district once a month, to go shopping in Carlisle ("The Big City") and leave the county once a year (for a two-week holiday somewhere hot). Plenty west Cumbria residents haven't set foot on Lakeland's fells let alone been to Penrith or Windermere. In just about every respect you can think of, Whitehaven, say, has as much in common with Kendal as Batley does with Barnet. I remember doing a summer's day circular walk from Grayrigg, over towards the Howgills. Got chatting to an elderly couple. Mentioned I was living in Whitehaven. "Ooh, we've never been there," they said. "What are you doing over here?" Good God.

On top of that, away from Cumbria's Ulverston-Barrow-Millom-Egremont-Whitehaven-Workington-Maryport coastal strip, there is very little interest in rugby league. By and large, Kendal and Penrith people don't go to Whitehaven!

As someone who has lived and worked in west cumbria all my life I can agree with a lot of what you say however it is important that the game looks after areas where it is known to be strong. People have mentioned the NCL,there are now 8 county clubs competing in this league with others trying to get in,the base and history is there ,it needs encouraged,I have been lucky enough to see the old Cumbria county team play on many occasions against the best in the world, at all the county venues, the question I ask is how can you expand the game if you cant look after a traditional strong area

[snoopdog]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

If we are to do anything for Cumbria it should be throwing money at the amateur clubs there and not the unworkable notion of a top flight club in the county. 

A successful top flight club would be the catalyst to stop the community games slow death in Cumbria. Kids need aspirations and unfortunately playing in broken stadiums in front of 500 spectators doesn't do that.

[Hela Wigmen]

4 minutes ago, snoopdog said:

A successful top flight club would be the catalyst to stop the community games slow death in Cumbria. Kids need aspirations and unfortunately playing in broken stadiums in front of 500 spectators doesn't do that.

A Cumbria team is a pipedream, unfortunately. An investor is sought to either go into one of the three clubs or to merge all three, which is highly unlikely, at best. The likes of Morgan Knowles, Kyle Amor, Brad Singleton etc should be these kids ambitions. 

[Hopping Mad]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The likes of Morgan Knowles, Kyle Amor, Brad Singleton etc should be these kids ambitions. 

That's the real tragedy in Cumbria. The coastal strip's lively amateur scene has always been a conveyor belt of rugby league talent. Many of these lads would prefer to play for Barrow, Whitehaven or Workington Town - their hometown teams - but the three clubs cannot fulfil their ambitions. And so off to south-east Lancashire they go...

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Hopping Mad said:

That's the real tragedy in Cumbria. The coastal strip's lively amateur scene has always been a conveyor belt of rugby league talent. Many of these lads would prefer to play for Barrow, Whitehaven or Workington Town - their hometown teams - but the three clubs cannot fulfil their ambitions. And so off to south-east Lancashire they go...

You think kids would rather play for Barrow than Wigan?

[Hopping Mad]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You think kids would rather play for Barrow than Wigan?

I'm saying they'd rather play for Barrow, if Barrow (or the other Cumbria clubs) could offer what Wigan et al can offer. For too long, the three Cumbria clubs have been left scrapping over the 'best of the rest'.

[Rupert Prince]

On 03/11/2020 at 09:53, Colin James said:

There are three certainties in life: death, taxes and someone raising the prospect of a Cumbria team in SL once a year.

Never going to happen.

Does strange to me that some would rather cheerlead for Toronto an ocean away, but sneer at RL in Cumbria. 

[Mr Frisky]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Don’t see that as a big issue if games are moved around the county.

Think of St George Illawarra. A few hardcore Dragons fans in Sydney might travel to Wollongong but most of the people there will be locals.

There has to be an element of ‘greater good’ here that sees the bigger picture.

Yep but fans would lose their identity- most Cumbrians and people from Barrow for that matter dont even see Barrow as Cumbria.

Carlisle has always been a Football city and never embraced RL or RU.

[dkw]

1 hour ago, Hopping Mad said:

Cumbria - owing to its socio-economic, cultural and topographical diversity, often described as more of a country than a county - just isn't like that, I'm afraid. I lived and worked there for five years in the 1980s. Many of the locals have extremely limited horizons. 'Westies' would leave the district once a month, to go shopping in Carlisle ("The Big City") and leave the county once a year (for a two-week holiday somewhere hot). Plenty west Cumbria residents haven't set foot on Lakeland's fells let alone been to Penrith or Windermere. In just about every respect you can think of, Whitehaven, say, has as much in common with Kendal as Batley does with Barnet. I remember doing a summer's day circular walk from Grayrigg, over towards the Howgills. Got chatting to an elderly couple. Mentioned I was living in Whitehaven. "Ooh, we've never been there," they said. "What are you doing over here?" Good God.

On top of that, away from Cumbria's Ulverston-Barrow-Millom-Egremont-Whitehaven-Workington-Maryport coastal strip, there is very little interest in rugby league. By and large, Kendal and Penrith people don't go to Whitehaven!

I agree with much that you said there, though I would argue there is an interest in top flight RL in Cockermouth, Penrith etc as there used to be several coach loads travel West to Derwent Park when we were in the Big League. Now whether that would happen again is open to debate obviously, but the interest is there.

[dkw]

2 hours ago, yipyee said:

Create a new county team, in fact it wouldnt be new as they have already played as a county.

Play the games across the county but dont chop and change, announce the games well in advance and work with the established clubs, have double headers etc. Have a cumbrian academy feeding into this with the semi pro clubs also benefiting from the academy.

This of course would only work under a liecencing model and would need the semi pro clubs to be on board however they must know by now that SL will never happen for them

Thats literally the only way a Cumbria SL team could ever work, completely independent of the 3 existing clubs. Though those 3 could be used as feeder clubs also if they accept staying at their current level.