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London Broncos Moving Update


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3 minutes ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

I still believe 99% of Broncos fans are desperate for this move to work

I would like nothing more than to be proved wrong and for London to be playing before decent crowds in Super League in a few years. Honestly, I can't think of anything I want more for my team than to be back to the competitive side that they were when I first started watching them.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 minutes ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

If Dons grab them by the scruff of the neck, it may work. If not, all the evidence points to the usual lack of promotion and marketing. We all know how that ends, we've seen it before.

There's a role for Broncos fans here too. I realise some feel disempowered to the point of fatalism, but fans can and do make a difference if they make an effort. 

Edited by Man of Kent
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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

There's a role for Broncos fans here too. I realise some feel disempowered to the point of fatalism, but fans can and do make a difference if they make an effort

With every one of your statements you just keep dumping all over people who have introduced dozens, hundreds of people to the game and are/have been active as volunteers both for the Broncos and across numerous community clubs and organisations.

And continue to do so.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Two quick points.

1. I do care what MoK thinks. They are exactly the sort of person the club needs to rock up and pay their £25.

2. You can't help a club who don't want to be helped. There have been numerous offers of of help around marketing from both professionals and people with a good track record in other sports as volunteers. The last time the professional offered help he was trolled on another forum by a club employee. 

Edited by Ivarr the Boneless
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Just now, gingerjon said:

With every one of your statements you just keep dumping all over people who have introduced dozens, hundreds of people to the game and are/have been active as volunteers both for the Broncos and across numerous community clubs and organisations.

And continue to do so.

You're just looking to pick on someone, to be fair. Same with Nadger.

Like I say, I would suggest LBSA and/or BOSG forms a working group on the groundshare to discuss and then take forward ideas. Not rocket science. 

 

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Just now, Man of Kent said:

You're just looking to pick on someone, to be fair.

Nah. Just getting bored of a non London fan who has one idea, keeps repeating it, and expects a cookie for their brilliance.

It's as tedious as the people who say "marketing" and then walk away as if they've solved every conceivable problem the game has in raising awareness.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Nah. Just getting bored of a non London fan who has one idea, keeps repeating it, and expects a cookie for their brilliance.

It's as tedious as the people who say "marketing" and then walk away as if they've solved every conceivable problem the game has in raising awareness.

So what will you do, Ginge? Just moan on here?

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4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

So what will you do, Ginge? Just moan on here?

Not a huge amount these days owing to distance, time and having a special needs son. But in the past I've been involved in marketing steering groups, dragged far, far, far too many people along, and done a bit, when they were at the Stoop, to get them noticed locally.

But, I tell you what, I reckon a steering group, like the one they mentioned in the actual Dons Trust proposal FFS, should sort it. No idea what they should specifically talk about. Marketing, probably.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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56 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Looking at this wearing my Southern RL fan hat, I see Plough Lane as an opportunity for Broncos to build back to the level of crowds we know are possible in London (but impossible at Ealing).

It won’t happen overnight but I believe it’s absolutely possible over the course of the 10-year agreement. AFC Wimbledon is a different kettle of fish from Barnet. 

I could go on at length about this but ultimately it’s down to AFCW having a highly engaged, responsible fanbase that is invested in the club in all senses of the word. I fully expect the Dons Trust to take an active role in the groundshare rather than just bank LB’s rent cheques. 

What disappoints me is a few of the hardcore on here seem to only want to see the downsides of the groundshare. Almost as if they are willing it - and Broncos - to fail, so they can say ‘I told you so’. It’s all a bit pathetic. 

I think that is unfair on the Broncos fans.

Look at it this way, if Leeds decided they were moving to Elland Road, or more accurately within the distances of this debate, Harrogate or Wakefield, without telling their fans who have already sacrificed a year of ST money over Covid they were even considering it, I'd be ###### off (even though Wakefield would be much closer to me currently). 

Then you throw in the fact that the Broncos fans have heard it all before with several other moves and that the fundamentals of the club and its leading operators are still the same, I don't think anyone can can't blame them for being cynical.

I understand wholeheartedly the potential positives of Plough Lane over Ealing, absolutely. Its obvious to almost everybody. However I also see why long term Broncos fans would have significant question marks over whether the current set up at the club is in any way likely or capable to take advantage of that potential - especially when it is the same or worse team that have managed the several moves of the past decade or so. Maybe I'm biased because of my academic focus but I think it would be foolish to ignore the history here.

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4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think that is unfair on the Broncos fans.

Look at it this way, if Leeds decided they were moving to Elland Road, or more accurately within the distances of this debate, Harrogate or Wakefield, without telling their fans who have already sacrificed a year of ST money over Covid they were even considering it, I'd be ###### off (even though Wakefield would be much closer to me currently). 

Then you throw in the fact that the Broncos fans have heard it all before with several other moves and that the fundamentals of the club and its leading operators are still the same, I don't think anyone can can't blame them for being cynical.

I understand wholeheartedly the potential positives of Plough Lane over Ealing, absolutely. Its obvious to almost everybody. However I also see why long term Broncos fans would have significant question marks over whether the current set up at the club is in any way likely or capable to take advantage of that potential - especially when it is the same or worse team that have managed the several moves of the past decade or so. Maybe I'm biased because of my academic focus but I think it would be foolish to ignore the history here.

I know you know this but to make the comparison work, Leeds would have to be moving to Harrogate having said to everyone they were completely settled at Wakefield, having, also played at Bradford, Huddersfield and Guiseley AFC in the previous decade.

With crowds falling with each move.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think that is unfair on the Broncos fans.

Look at it this way, if Leeds decided they were moving to Elland Road, or more accurately within the distances of this debate, Harrogate or Wakefield, without telling their fans who have already sacrificed a year of ST money over Covid they were even considering it, I'd be ###### off (even though Wakefield would be much closer to me currently). 

Then you throw in the fact that the Broncos fans have heard it all before with several other moves and that the fundamentals of the club and its leading operators are still the same, I don't think anyone can can't blame them for being cynical.

I understand wholeheartedly the potential positives of Plough Lane over Ealing, absolutely. Its obvious to almost everybody. However I also see why long term Broncos fans would have significant question marks over whether the current set up at the club is in any way likely or capable to take advantage of that potential - especially when it is the same or worse team that have managed the several moves of the past decade or so. Maybe I'm biased because of my academic focus but I think it would be foolish to ignore the history here.

I completely understand the cynicism, and I too question the capacity of the Broncos management.

Leaving aside the superior facilities, where I see a major point of difference with a groundshare at Plough Lane and, say, The Hive, is AFCW fans have significantly more agency than at a comparative non-entity like Barnet. 

The Dons Trust board can more or less instruct club officials to implement a groundshare strategy aimed at boosting crowds. That's why I think it's so important that the LBSA comes on board to work with the Dons Trust.        

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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Looking at this wearing my Southern RL fan hat, I see Plough Lane as an opportunity for Broncos to build back to the level of crowds we know are possible in London (but impossible at Ealing).

It won’t happen overnight but I believe it’s absolutely possible over the course of the 10-year agreement. AFC Wimbledon is a different kettle of fish from Barnet. 

I could go on at length about this but ultimately it’s down to AFCW having a highly engaged, responsible fanbase that is invested in the club in all senses of the word. I fully expect the Dons Trust to take an active role in the groundshare rather than just bank LB’s rent cheques. 

What disappoints me is a few of the hardcore on here seem to only want to see the downsides of the groundshare. Almost as if they are willing it - and Broncos - to fail, so they can say ‘I told you so’. It’s all a bit pathetic. 

I think it's because the face of that highly engaged, responsible fanbase on here comes across as a selfish little troll.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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Just now, Just Browny said:

I think it's because the face of that highly engaged, responsible fanbase on here comes across as a selfish little troll.

Well, if you take it to close the line you have to expect a few knocks. All water off a duck's back to me 😝

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Reading this as an observer with no connections to either London Broncos or Wimbledon, it appears a heavily weighted deal in Wimbledon’s favour (which you’d expect as the landlords) with some very unrealistic projections that London have either given the green light to or begrudgingly accepted, that leaves the future of the Broncos looking uncertain. 

Also, given Broncos’ history of new dawns, how many more can Broncos fans stomach before they have enough? Well it seems all of them have had some sort of knock-on effect in terms of numbers and this one will, most likely, be no different. 

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53 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Leaving aside the superior facilities, where I see a major point of difference with a groundshare at Plough Lane and, say, The Hive, is AFCW fans have significantly more agency than at a comparative non-entity like Barnet.     

Both involve(d) the host charging the user for use of their pitch. End of. There is no share.

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2 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

They are exactly the sort of person the club needs to rock up and pay their £25.

Yup. But it didn't need to be so.

The club have, again, despite repeated failures in the past, decided that the way to not have to do the hard work and get more London fans, is to move to a new ground and just rent enough fans from the host club.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Reading this as an observer with no connections to either London Broncos or Wimbledon, it appears a heavily weighted deal in Wimbledon’s favour (which you’d expect as the landlords) Also, given Broncos’ history of new dawns, how many more can Broncos fans stomach before they have enough? Well it seems all of them have had some sort of knock-on effect in terms of numbers and this one will, most likely, be no different. 

This really made me think that in the end Mr. Hughes pays heavily for London to be a professional RL club. Is it something like £40 Million to date he has spent?.

I can understand supporters wishing to be consulted more and included more but at the end of the day does Mr. Hughes run the London Broncos simply for Mr. Hughes? TBF he does pride himself on the running of a London academy academy.

So London is a solvent professional club based in London developing London based players (which will ingratiate him with the RFL & SL) but as for London fans, maybe Mr. Hughes view is nice if you go along you fans, if you don't that's up to you? 

 

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21 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

The identity of some of the long the fans walking away should be ringing serious alarm bells at the Broncos.

In his e-mail to season ticket holders James Milner made it clear renewals were vital given the dramatic drop in central funding. A lot of long standing fans have now posted their goodbyes, though some say they may attend the odd match.

Despite this there has been no attempt to contact non renewing season ticket holders and find out why they are off or any serious attempt to retain them as supporters. Madness.

One point tha's consistently missed is that it is the people who do not post on internet messageboards who are the ones who will be voting with their feet on this.

I can back up your point about non-renewing season ticket holders being one myself.

Incidentally I would point out that the Broncos Officiual Supporters Club runs a closed Facebook page but as a member of the BOSG, I am not privy to the "Secret Squirrel" password and the figure for members is far greater than the number of BOSG members confirmed in the last e-mail from 14th March.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/359045388711781/

I was looking forward to the season about six months ago, and I was one of those who waived a season -ticket refund (not even in exchange for a free 2021 Shirt). Had I known then what I know now, that would not have happened.

It is with disgust that I read that loyal fans with over 25 years invested in the club, are getting letters banning them from the Club. As someone who also has over 25 years watching this club in its various locations and guises.I hve no confidence whatsoever in the men now running the Broncos.

As it's unlilkely they will leave voluntarily, so I will in future be more a true general Rugby League fan in attendance at Skolars matches, Internationals and select games in the north as and when, not to mention the NRL when travel returns to normal with the final game at Ealing being my last Bronco match

And if anyone on here thinks that AFC Wimbledon have any interest in propping up a ailing Rugby League club then you have not been reading their minutes or statements very closely.

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When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so.

George Orwell
 

 

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I think it's fair to say the Broncos fans both here and on the other forum are not representative. Most of us are long term fans. I'm another,  25 years or so fan plus a spell at Prescot Panthers before that.

The newer fans typically seem to engage with the club in other ways. With the club reportedly deleting comments and banning posters from Facebook it would be difficult to get a true view even if I was on Facebook, I'm not. 

My gut feel is the newer fans are probably not quite as disillusioned as the old timers and the % walking away will be lower. 

The fact that some of the long standing fans are seemingly being banned from attending matches is deeply disappointing unless the club have a very good reason. I don't count being thin skinned as a good reason.

Edited to say I think suspect the Gus Mackay era may be the dividing line? Those who enjoyed that time often seem to be thinking here we go again. The newer arrivals are perhaps more optimistic?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ivarr the Boneless
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10 hours ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

I think it's fair to say the Broncos fans both here and on the other forum are not representative. Most of us are long term fans. I'm another,  25 years or so fan plus a spell at Prescot Panthers before that.

The newer fans typically seem to engage with the club in other ways. With the club reportedly deleting comments and banning posters from Facebook it would be difficult to get a true view even if I was on Facebook, I'm not. 

My gut feel is the newer fans are probably not quite as disillusioned as the old timers and the % walking away will be lower. 

The fact that some of the long standing fans are seemingly being banned from attending matches is deeply disappointing unless the club have a very good reason. I don't count being thin skinned as a good reason.

Edited to say I think suspect the Gus Mackay era may be the dividing line? Those who enjoyed that time often seem to be thinking here we go again. The newer arrivals are perhaps more optimistic?

 

 

 

 

Completely agree. Nobody on here is representative of anything. The very fact that we're on a messageboard - very 2000 not 2021 - and wanting spend time discussing the minutiae of one particular sport shows that. All we can do is observe.

I have to say, the one thing I'm not seeing anywhere, either on the traditional internet, any social media, email, mail or carrier pigeon, is any engagement at all. (I think I've looked over all the relevant socials - not unsurprisingly there's an apparently official TikTok account not linked from the web page).

The vote from the Dons Trust is still not covered anywhere. That would be quite a basic one to cover. Especially if you were serious about doing any hard work at all building momentum and interest for that first game. Although I see that Brian Moore was interested enough to comment on the vote.

As of right now, any vaguely interested Wimbledon fan, to say nothing of anyone else, is going to find not a single thing about what this supposedly well-planned and strategically important new dawn will look like.

(On the other point: yes, people stop going all the time. And older folk will always moan that things were better in the day. What's important here, really, is that London have had a decade-plus long decline in season ticket holders and attendance that had started to plateau. That work has now been undone and it's very hard to see anything other than that decline restarting - regardless of what actions any well meaning and hardworking members of the supporters groups do.) 

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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20 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I know you know this but to make the comparison work, Leeds would have to be moving to Harrogate having said to everyone they were completely settled at Wakefield, having, also played at Bradford, Huddersfield and Guiseley AFC in the previous decade.

With crowds falling with each move.

Well exactly, it would be difficult not to be cynical for someone who has been a fan for more than 10 years.

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20 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I completely understand the cynicism, and I too question the capacity of the Broncos management.

Leaving aside the superior facilities, where I see a major point of difference with a groundshare at Plough Lane and, say, The Hive, is AFCW fans have significantly more agency than at a comparative non-entity like Barnet. 

The Dons Trust board can more or less instruct club officials to implement a groundshare strategy aimed at boosting crowds. That's why I think it's so important that the LBSA comes on board to work with the Dons Trust.        

They can, but equally they don't have to. I sincerely hope and to a small extent expect we may be sat here in 5/10 years time thinking that a club like AFCW would have been the ideal partner for the Broncos from the start.

However my increasing concern is that the main blockage to that transpiring is the Broncos management themselves. The management of the Broncos is at the polar opposite of the scenario you describe at AFCW - supporters couldn't be further removed from the ongoings at the club. 

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45 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

However my increasing concern is that the main blockage to that transpiring is the Broncos management themselves. The management of the Broncos is at the polar opposite of the scenario you describe at AFCW - supporters couldn't be further removed from the ongoings at the club. 

Agreed. Again, though, working with the DT means London supporters can bypass the apparently intransigent Broncos management. 

I’m sure most Broncos fans can see there’s an opportunity to be grasped but ultimately it’s up to the fans – AFCW and LB – to make it work. It could work. It should work. But it’s not just going to happen just by magic. 

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