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Cumbrian Mackem

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Robin Evans

Robin Evans

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:


 

The overwhelming majority of English super league sides should have both a majority British born squad and matchday 17 and the French teams should have both a majority French born squad and matchday 17.

Why?

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RP London

RP London

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3 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Where did I mention that English clubs should have an “all English squad”?
 

The overwhelming majority of English super league sides should have both a majority British born squad and matchday 17 and the French teams should have both a majority French born squad and matchday 17.

No “going round in circles “ here marra. No confusion at all cocker.

I am sure we would all love that... but until the English clubs do that i am not sure we should be having a pop at Toulouse for it.

Toulouse need to be at the top table.. that is the important thing at the moment. 

 

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Robin Evans

Robin Evans

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2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

To boost the English/British game of course. 

Right. That's your stance.

I don't agree. Just reading back it would appear most take an opposing position to yourself for reasons offered by various posters.

And no-one on here (to my knowledge) are SL decision makers.

That's that sorted then.

😊

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Cumbrian Mackem

Cumbrian Mackem

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1 minute ago, Robin Evans said:

Right. That's your stance.

I don't agree. Just reading back it would appear most take an opposing position to yourself for reasons offered by various posters.

And no-one on here (to my knowledge) are SL decision makers.

That's that sorted then.

😊

It is indeed my stance and your stance is completely opposite to mine. Welcome to a discussion board.

Thats that sorted then.

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Robin Evans

Robin Evans

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

It is indeed my stance and your stance is completely opposite to mine. Welcome to a discussion board.

Thats that sorted then.

Just expediting the end of the discussion. Saves an awful lot of froth in between. 

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Griff

Griff

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On 10/05/2021 at 11:20, Eddie said:

While ideally they’d have more, surely they just want the best players available to them with whatever money they have available, and if they aren’t French then so be it. Would you question how many of the Hull KR team are from Yorkshire, or Warrington from Cheshire etc? 

Warrington's in Lancashire.

Just for clarification.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Cumbrian Mackem

Cumbrian Mackem

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23 minutes ago, RP London said:

I am sure we would all love that... but until the English clubs do that i am not sure we should be having a pop at Toulouse for it.

Toulouse need to be at the top table.. that is the important thing at the moment. 

 

Have many English clubs have as many overseas players as Catalan dragons?

Or Toulouse for that matter?

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RP London

RP London

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Just now, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Have many English clubs have as many overseas players as Catalan dragons?

The quota is the same for all clubs, without looking at it in too much detail (as i cant be arsed) i recon pretty much all of them are at or very close to the limit of the quota so i'll guess at 7?... 

unless you are going to count English as overseas at which point we are back to the playing under different rules argument which was had about 3 pages ago.. with the same massive draw backs and issues for the french game that none of us would want as it helps them to spread the players out.. 

next

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Cumbrian Mackem

Cumbrian Mackem

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2 minutes ago, RP London said:

The quota is the same for all clubs, without looking at it in too much detail (as i cant be arsed) i recon pretty much all of them are at or very close to the limit of the quota so i'll guess at 7?... 

unless you are going to count English as overseas at which point we are back to the playing under different rules argument which was had about 3 pages ago.. with the same massive draw backs and issues for the french game that none of us would want as it helps them to spread the players out.. 

next

Anyone that wasn’t born in France or a French territory is overseas. This includes British players.

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RP London

RP London

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Just now, Cumbrian Mackem said:

Anyone that wasn’t born in France or a French territory is overseas. This includes British players.

then add that to the quota... then we will find no french players being given a chance at other teams and the only way they can progress is through 1 super league clubs... thats 15-20 roster places a season for EVERY french player... 

there ends french development IMHO

to be clear i would argue that the quota of overseas (non British/French) should come down.. I also would love to see more french players in the french teams.. what i am against is different rules for different clubs.. adding the English and French into the quota system (as this would hinder french development as much as help it) and i am against judging the success of tolouse in helping the french game purely on the number of frenchmen in the team as i dont think that is helpful. 

Drop the quota of players allowed down and down.. i am with you.. but it has to be for everyone.

Judge the success of french rugby league by what is happening below and at junior level as that will have an impact for years not just for this campaign. 

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Griff

Griff

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17 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Not since the 1970s, but you knew that. 

No, it's still in Lancashire but Cheshire Council empty their bins.

It's the Law.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

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Posted

NZ Warriors produce as many players as most NRL sides - but the rest of the NRL produces nearly as many if not more first grade Kiwis than the Warriors.

That is the crucial distinction here. The Warriors aren't the only club nurturing young playing talent from their country whereas Catalans (and Toulouse) effectively are being asked by some to do that for France.

English Super League clubs rarely look too far for talent as it is. Yet as has been shown on numerous occasions in Super League and previously, looking beyond the M62 has yeilded excellent results. Given the advancement of the game in Southern France already, I'd expect even greater returns there.

I'm massively in favour of incentives being offered to Super League clubs in the form of Salary Cap dispensations etc for non English players from the academy all the way to Super League squads.

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Cumbrian Mackem

Cumbrian Mackem

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10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

NZ Warriors produce as many players as most NRL sides - but the rest of the NRL produces nearly as many if not more first grade Kiwis than the Warriors.

That is the crucial distinction here. The Warriors aren't the only club nurturing young playing talent from their country whereas Catalans (and Toulouse) effectively are being asked by some to do that for France.

English Super League clubs rarely look too far for talent as it is. Yet as has been shown on numerous occasions in Super League and previously, looking beyond the M62 has yeilded excellent results. Given the advancement of the game in Southern France already, I'd expect even greater returns there.

I'm massively in favour of incentives being offered to Super League clubs in the form of Salary Cap dispensations etc for non English players from the academy all the way to Super League squads.

If Catalan and Toulouse don’t nurture French talent then who will? Especially when they have the advantage of being the only 2 professional French teams competing at a higher level in the English system.

Salford had 2 French kids in their academy a few years back. Warrington had about 4 as well some years back and Leeds have had 1 or 2 in the past as well including yaha I believe?

 

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RP London

RP London

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20 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

If Catalan and Toulouse don’t nurture French talent then who will? Especially when they have the advantage of being the only 2 professional French teams competing at a higher level in the English system.

Salford had 2 French kids in their academy a few years back. Warrington had about 4 as well some years back and Leeds have had 1 or 2 in the past as well including yaha I believe?

 

i'm pretty sure you answered your first question with your second paragraph.. 

Anybody can, they just need to find the players they think they can work with (above and beyond those that come from their local area). But what you seem to forget (conveniently) is that academies don't churn out Super League standard players from every "draft" or at least in significant numbers so why do we expect Catalans or Toulouse to have done this in a short space of time. 

Incentivise the English clubs to have a couple of French born in their academies... absolutely go for it, more than happy with that suggestion... but dont limit catalans' and toulouse's ability to get up and stay in Super League because those 2 focal points (with or without locally born players in the first team) are huge for developing the underbelly of clubs that can the produce the juniors for the other clubs to take 1 or 2 of into their academies.

the solution to grow the french team (or any other area for that matter) is not to limit their top clubs or to force them to play players from their area at the expense of them staying at the top level (not even the top of the top level just in the top level). You have to be more imaginative and you can gain a lot more by doing that. 

If you incentivise super league clubs to take on 2 Frenchmen into the academy you double the number of frenchmen in the academy set up (les cats academy + the equivalent of another academy spread amongst SL teams) thats a huge step up. 

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

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25 minutes ago, Cumbrian Mackem said:

If Catalan and Toulouse don’t nurture French talent then who will? Especially when they have the advantage of being the only 2 professional French teams competing at a higher level in the English system.

Salford had 2 French kids in their academy a few years back. Warrington had about 4 as well some years back and Leeds have had 1 or 2 in the past as well including yaha I believe?

 

The point you quoted highlighted how the issue is not that Catalan and Toulouse don't nurture French talent (they quite clearly do), but that they are to all intents and purposes the only one's doing so. Its not like they are picking up English or Australian juniors instead of French juniors either - their entire development system is French but is also a huge bottleneck. This is the opposite to NZ where Kiwis are picked up by Australian clubs regularly making the Warriors policies far less important to the national team. 

Equally, as has been repeatedly stated, in the current environment, the two French teams simply have to prioritise being in Super League over development of French players every year. 

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Dave T

Dave T

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There is an alternative way of looking at this. One of the strongest teams in SL regularly features 8 French lads, and one of the strongest Championship clubs does the same. 

That is a positive. Before these clubs were in the UK system we didn't really have as many IIRC.

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