League restructure discussion thread (Merged)

[JohnM]

Wigan Warriors are selling season tickets for 2022. Maybe they know something that we don't.

[Robthegasman]

Sometimes I think the best thing to do is completely scrap the 2022 season in all the divisions whilst there is uncertainty as to what the division(s)set up is going to be and as I suspect uncertainty as to which clubs are going to be able to continue as I suspect that some clubs are on the brink of closure(let me be wrong there) and going out of business given the savage cuts clubs outside Super League face.

 And if and when the clubs and the Governing body actually make a firm,proper decision one way or another,whatever it may be and with whichever clubs and have a proper relaunch in 23,24 or 25 whenever a firm decision is made,and one that benefits the game.

Now of course I don’t want to see what I have said actually happen but right now all I see is the game and clubs acting like a mouse on a Ferris wheel as we are going around in circles getting ourselves dizzy and getting ourselves in a tiswas(not the old Saturday morning show)and it is doing no one any good at all.
 

I think enough is enough now.

It is time that decisions for the good of the game are made once and for all. And it is time decisions are made for the good of the game not the individual clubs no matter how tough and hard they have to be.

[Robthegasman]

7 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Anyone heard owt? 

Players are due to go into pre season soon and they have no idea what the league structure will be, how many are going to be relegated and whether we will have 2 leagues of 10 in 2023. 

This is the definition of an omnishambles 

Absolutely true.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Fixture announcement date

Not bothered about that Tommy, it is what are teams playing for next year that is of interest.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Have you forgotten we're actually still in 2021 and the 2023 season is probably 16-17 months away. Why all the dummy spitting from people about not having the 2023 structure known now ??

No I've not forgotten, but you do not seem aware that the season that will start in 14 weeks time is the qualification process for whatever may come in 16-17 months away, it is important that club's know what is happening.

[Harry Stottle]

57 minutes ago, M j M said:

If people can't see why it's a problem that clubs are setting their 2022 budgets without knowing what they're playing for I despair. If this disastrous twox10s is coming in then it's going to force clubs all over the place to try and bolster their squads compared to a baseline season.

Some people have butterflies hovering around their heads if they can't see the importance of knowing what is to come after next season.

[DI Keith Fowler]

2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Have you forgotten we're actually still in 2021 and the 2023 season is probably 16-17 months away. Why all the dummy spitting from people about not having the 2023 structure known now ??

Because they'll be relegated at the end of the 2022 season for the new structure that starts in 2023!

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

Because they'll be relegated at the end of the 2022 season for the new structure that starts in 2023!

No Keith he is oblivious to that, but that may be the attitude of being a  supporter of a club that will not be affected.

[DI Keith Fowler]

2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

As far as i'm aware every club employs players who have a relegation clause in their contracts. They all recruit now on the basis of being in SL the following year but have contracts in place that account for relegation should it happen. Teams aren't going to change their recruitment policies just because they don't know whether 1 or 2 teams (or any teams) will be getting relegated come September / October 2023.

Any club who recruits beyond their financial means is poorly managed and quite frankly deserves to be relegated.

If we switch to 2x10 you're looking at 6 teams being relegated from the Championship and at least 2 if not 3 relegated from SL. I think you've massively missed the issue here. 

[Saint Toppy]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No I've not forgotten, but you do not seem aware that the season that will start in 14 weeks time is the qualification process for whatever may come in 16-17 months away, it is important that club's know what is happening.

 So you think teams are either going to try harder to win more games or not try as hard depending on the structure for 2023 ???

[Tommygilf]

35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not bothered about that Tommy, it is what are teams playing for next year that is of interest.

Presumably that will be in that announcement.

[Saint Toppy]

26 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Because they'll be relegated at the end of the 2022 season for the new structure that starts in 2023!

Do you seriously believe that individual players or teams are going to approach the 2022 pre-season differently because they don't know now what the 2023 structure is going to be ??

I can understand clubs getting a bit jittery if we start the 2022 season and no announcement has been made but people are just being silly at the moment, were nearly 4 months away from the 2022 season and 10-11 months away from the relegation events happening (if indeed they do happen).

[DI Keith Fowler]

Just now, Saint Toppy said:

Do you seriously believe that individual players or teams are going to approach the 2022 pre-season differently because they don't know now what the 2023 structure is going to be ??

I can understand clubs getting a but jittery if we start the 2022 season and no announcement has been made but people are just being silly at the moment, were nearly 4 months away from the 2022 season and 10-11 months away from the relegation events happening (if indeed they do happen).

One million percent yes. Teams in the Championship have had to sign players and allocate a playing budget for a season in which either nothing happens or they're in a relegation dogfight with 6 teams dropping out. Do you seriously believe that might not be an important thing to know early?

If you finished 10th last season, 3 places above relegation you now don't know if you need to reach 8th next season to avoid it. That money you were spending to produce long term growth or improve facilities you now might need to spend on the 1st team immediately to avoid being cut adrift.

I would argue actually it's already too late to let teams know because most teams have assembled 90% of their squads in the dark about what's going on.

I think you just got your years mixed up to be honest. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

If people can't see why it's a problem that clubs are setting their 2022 budgets without knowing what they're playing for I despair. If this disastrous twox10s is coming in then it's going to force clubs all over the place to try and bolster their squads compared to a baseline season.

Whilst it is problematic, it is the clubs themselves who are responsible for driving this really. It is on them to drive this to its conclusion. 

I can see it is more problematic for lower down who will be impacted by how the top tier looks. 

The hope has to be that conversations are happening at pace now and we are close to an announcement on the future. 

[Tabby]

52 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

If we switch to 2x10 you're looking at 6 teams being relegated from the Championship and at least 2 if not 3 relegated from SL. I think you've massively missed the issue here. 

I think you have mis-judged the issue. Once the hammer goes down. The massive restructure was pre pandemic. Now post.

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, Tabby said:

I think you have mis-judged the issue. Once the hammer goes down. The massive restructure was pre pandemic. Now post.

Explain that please.

[Tabby]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Explain that please.

The restructure was due pre Covid 19. That obviously being placed on hold. Now the restructure will be put in place.

That ok Harry.

[Robthegasman]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

No I've not forgotten, but you do not seem aware that the season that will start in 14 weeks time is the qualification process for whatever may come in 16-17 months away, it is important that club's know what is happening.

I don’t think we have always agreed on some things but I for one totally agree with you and support fully what you say.

Now assuming that League 1 is going to be 10 teams they only have a minimum of 9 home games income wise to plan ahead with. And assuming the Championship is the same stupid format it was last year they will only have a minimum of 11 home games. And Super League with what a minimum of I think 13 home games.

It simply is not a lot of time to plan ahead especially if there are going to be totally new structures and criteria for clubs to determine where they fit in 23 and beyond.

If I was a chairman especially at a non Super League club I would be going absolutely apein public about this.

For me this silence is disgusting and I always say that silence on things like this lead to Chinese whispers which is not how it should be.

 And if the powers that be have got bad news to break to us,tell us,we are all grown up adults and I am sure many posters will have had to deal with bad and devastating news in our lives at some stage.We are not children.

[dboy]

1 minute ago, Robthegasman said:

If I was a chairman especially at a non Super League club I would be going absolutely apein public about this.

 

If you were the Chairman of a pro club, you'd actually know the current situation and also have a good idea of the final outcome.

A pro-club Chairman would not go "apeshit" in public, because that would be unprofessional.

Unless you are Beaumont or Chapman or Guash...

[Tabby]

4 minutes ago, Robthegasman said:

I don’t think we have always agreed on some things but I for one totally agree with you and support fully what you say.

Now assuming that League 1 is going to be 10 teams they only have a minimum of 9 home games income wise to plan ahead with. And assuming the Championship is the same stupid format it was last year they will only have a minimum of 11 home games. And Super League with what a minimum of I think 13 home games.

It simply is not a lot of time to plan ahead especially if there are going to be totally new structures and criteria for clubs to determine where they fit in 23 and beyond.

If I was a chairman especially at a non Super League club I would be going absolutely apein public about this.

For me this silence is disgusting and I always say that silence on things like this lead to Chinese whispers which is not how it should be.

 And if the powers that be have got bad news to break to us,tell us,we are all grown up adults and I am sure many posters will have had to deal with bad and devastating news in our lives at some stage.We are not children.

It’s been wise to plan ahead for the last two seasons. Who has will benefit.

[Robthegasman]

5 minutes ago, dboy said:

 

If you were the Chairman of a pro club, you'd actually know the current situation and also have a good idea of the final outcome.

A pro-club Chairman would not go "apeshit" in public, because that would be unprofessional.

Unless you are Beaumont or Chapman or Guash...

Why would it be unprofessional for a chairman to go”apeshit”in public?

Fans and players are surely saying to the chairmen of the clubs they support and love what is going on or words to that effect.

 And surely the players given that their playing salaries are either their full income or part of their income would also like to know so they can make plans financially?

Sometimes there is a time for chairmen to go”apeshit”in public and I think we are either there or close to it.

[dboy]

1 hour ago, Robthegasman said:

Why would it be unprofessional for a chairman to go”apeshit”in public?

Fans and players are surely saying to the chairmen of the clubs they support and love what is going on or words to that effect.

 And surely the players given that their playing salaries are either their full income or part of their income would also like to know so they can make plans financially?

Sometimes there is a time for chairmen to go”apeshit”in public and I think we are either there or close to it.

The fact you don't recognise it as unprofessional says everything we need to know about your "thought" process.

The Chairman KNOW what the situation is - they are ultimately in control of matters - it's not something that is happening TO them.

They might not all agree, but as a democratic group, they will abide by the majority decision.

[Tabby]

3 minutes ago, dboy said:

The fact you don't recognise it as unprofessional says everything we need to know about your "thought" process.

The Chairman KNOW what the situation is - they are ultimately in control of matters - it's not something that is happening TO them.

They might not all agree, but as a democratic group, they will abide by the majority decision.

The majority decision being the downfall of the sport of course.

[dboy]

28 minutes ago, Tabby said:

The majority decision being the downfall of the sport of course.

That's life.

[Tabby]

4 minutes ago, dboy said:

That's life.

Correct.