Josh Hodgson to miss remainder 2022 NRL, ACL reconstruction

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

James Roby would not be a good choice for the World Cup. Champion players know when to call it a day and the speed at which Super League is played is slower than International Rugby League.

He has made his decision it should be left at that. What does it say about the standard of English Rugby League that you have posters campaigning for a 37 year old hooker to come out of retirement.

 

Typical RL, put ourselves down... do football fans say "what does it say about English Football that the best player in the league is 37 years old?"

Roby is the best player in SL and still the best in his position in the world - if he can be persuaded then he and Clarke could be the Key for England in the WC.

[The Great Dane]

12 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I agree that it is sad news for Hodgson.

But if you think that the Raiders won't suffer too much due to Starling being 'more potent at hooker than Hodgson for the last couple seasons' then I can assure you that England will be ok.  There are plenty of hookers playing in England who are a good deal better than Tom Starling.

Who.

Not that I'm claiming Starling is a superstar, but I can't think of one young English hooker currently running about that is significantly better than him. Lots that are of a similar standard in so much as they can be compared, but none that are genuinely great players (not yet at least).

Roby is probably the only exception, and at 36 years old he's still a great player, but like Hodgson definitely not what he once was.

The reality is that though there're some great players in England your depth is like a puddle in most positions, particularly in the spine positions, and not having Hodgson available will hurt England badly even if you can replace him as starting hooker (and to be clear I'm not saying that you can't).

[The Great Dane]

8 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Typical RL, put ourselves down... do football fans say "what does it say about English Football that the best player in the league is 37 years old?"

Roby is the best player in SL and still the best in his position in the world - if he can be persuaded then he and Clarke could be the Key for England in the WC.

Jesus you're not serious are you?

[UTK]

1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

Who.

Not that I'm claiming Starling is a superstar, but I can't think of one young English hooker currently running about that is significantly better than him. Lots that are of a similar standard in so much as they can be compared, but none that are genuinely great players (not yet at least).

Roby is probably the only exception, and at 36 years old he's still a great player, but like Hodgson definitely not what he once was.

The reality is that though there're some great players in England your depth is like a puddle in most positions, particularly in the spine positions, and not having Hodgson available will hurt England badly even if you can replace him as starting hooker (and to be clear I'm not saying that you can't).

There's not really many young hookers in SL because most SL teams have quality players established in that position already.

At 26 Leeming might be just out of a range you'd call "young" but is fairly well ahead of Starling despite only having 3 years on him, Danny Walker is younger and would also be quite clear of him, Litten is probably in that comparable bracket you mention. 

Starling is all effort and is one of those players who will leave it all out on the field, he's one of the best lower grade players I've seen and played against but at the top-level he is very one dimensional in attack and still a massive defensive liability close to the line. He's talented enough to be a consistent first-grader but he's a long way off achieving the ceiling he showed in the lower grades. There's not a great deal of top hooking talent in the NRL and he's still nowhere near any conversations regarding representative teams.

Hodgson was never a chance of playing for England again, especially with Wane in charge he'd have at least Clark, Leeming, McShane and Walker ahead of him.

[Davo5]

17 minutes ago, UTK said:

There's not really many young hookers in SL because most SL teams have quality players established in that position already.

At 26 Leeming might be just out of a range you'd call "young" but is fairly well ahead of Starling despite only having 3 years on him, Danny Walker is younger and would also be quite clear of him, Litten is probably in that comparable bracket you mention. 

Starling is all effort and is one of those players who will leave it all out on the field, he's one of the best lower grade players I've seen and played against but at the top-level he is very one dimensional in attack and still a massive defensive liability close to the line. He's talented enough to be a consistent first-grader but he's a long way off achieving the ceiling he showed in the lower grades. There's not a great deal of top hooking talent in the NRL and he's still nowhere near any conversations regarding representative teams.

Hodgson was never a chance of playing for England again, especially with Wane in charge he'd have at least Clark, Leeming, McShane and Walker ahead of him.

Starling will always be a danger coming off the bench against tiring defences but as a starter he has too many deficiencies in his game & im sure the Raiders will be looking to fill that role with another player.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

Who.

Not that I'm claiming Starling is a superstar, but I can't think of one young English hooker currently running about that is significantly better than him. Lots that are of a similar standard in so much as they can be compared, but none that are genuinely great players (not yet at least).

Roby is probably the only exception, and at 36 years old he's still a great player, but like Hodgson definitely not what he once was.

The reality is that though there're some great players in England your depth is like a puddle in most positions, particularly in the spine positions, and not having Hodgson available will hurt England badly even if you can replace him as starting hooker (and to be clear I'm not saying that you can't).

The excellent post from @UTKabove explains the players that England have available who are significantly better than Starling and so I won't repeat that.

What I will say though is, even with your assessment of the players available, your logic is all over the place.

You say that the Raiders won't suffer from Hodgson's absence with Starling more potent than Hodgson but for England (with hookers available at the same standard as Starling), Hodgson's absence will hurt England badly. It doesn't make any sense.

[The Great Dane]

9 hours ago, UTK said:

There's not really many young hookers in SL because most SL teams have quality players established in that position already.

At 26 Leeming might be just out of a range you'd call "young" but is fairly well ahead of Starling despite only having 3 years on him, Danny Walker is younger and would also be quite clear of him, Litten is probably in that comparable bracket you mention. 

Starling is all effort and is one of those players who will leave it all out on the field, he's one of the best lower grade players I've seen and played against but at the top-level he is very one dimensional in attack and still a massive defensive liability close to the line. He's talented enough to be a consistent first-grader but he's a long way off achieving the ceiling he showed in the lower grades. There's not a great deal of top hooking talent in the NRL and he's still nowhere near any conversations regarding representative teams.

Hodgson was never a chance of playing for England again, especially with Wane in charge he'd have at least Clark, Leeming, McShane and Walker ahead of him.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but I haven't seen anything that suggests that any of those guys would be anymore than middling hookers in the NRL, and aren't even close to being in the echelon of guys like Smith, Grant, even Mahoney for example.

Sure one of them could surprise me, but there's no reason to believe that's the case. 

9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

You say that the Raiders won't suffer from Hodgson's absence with Starling more potent than Hodgson but for England (with hookers available at the same standard as Starling), Hodgson's absence will hurt England badly. It doesn't make any sense.

Firstly I never said that the Raiders wouldn't suffer from Hodgson's absence. Of course it makes things more difficult, but it isn't the end of the world because at this point they can cover him. Meanwhile they've been absolutely crippled by inconsistency in the halves since George Williams left.

But getting to the point, what I was saying was that in a strong competition you need depth in every position.

The Raiders have about as adequate depth at hooker as can be expected by NRL standards, at least for what is realistically achievable for them this season (all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others).

On the other hand I'm not so sure that England have that depth at hooker now that Hodgson and Roby are out, at least not of the same standard that other big nations can draw from.

It is what it is I guess.

[Damien]

26 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but I haven't seen anything that suggests that any of those guys would be anymore than middling hookers in the NRL, and aren't even close to being in the echelon of guys like Smith, Grant, even Mahoney for example.

Hodgson was a middling hooker in Super League yet one of the top hookers in the NRL. 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but I haven't seen anything that suggests that any of those guys would be anymore than middling hookers in the NRL, and aren't even close to being in the echelon of guys like Smith, Grant, even Mahoney for example

I have absolutely no doubt that you would have said the same about Hodgson if he hadn't have gone to the NRL.

A player like Daryl Clark (many times better than Hodgson was in Super League) would be a superstar in the NRL and will be in the World Cup if fit and healthy. 

[thebrewxi]

On 22/03/2022 at 19:08, Dunbar said:

I have absolutely no doubt that you would have said the same about Hodgson if he hadn't have gone to the NRL.

A player like Daryl Clark (many times better than Hodgson was in Super League) would be a superstar in the NRL and will be in the World Cup if fit and healthy. 

As I've said before, Hodgson became the player he became in the NRL, not before. He developed into our best Hooker by playing against the best.

Unfortunately that tarnishes him in many Super League fans' eyes.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, thebrewxi said:

As I've said before, Hodgson became the player he became in the NRL, not before. He developed into our best Hooker by playing against the best.

Unfortunately that tarnishes him in many Super League fans' eyes.

I'm probably somewhere in the middle on Hodgson.  Yes, he has had a very good career in the NRL and when he was on yhe top of his game he was behind only Cam Smith in the league.  I didn't see enough of him in Super League to say one way or the other whether he developed his game over there but (as I have stated before) I would take an NRL player over a Super League player all other things being equal as it is a higher standard competition. 

Having said that, I don't think Hodgson ever surpassed Roby who remained the best English 9 during his high quality and ultra consistent career.

While Clark and Hodgson are very different players, I would play Clark for England as I don't think Hodgson suits England's style of play.  He likes to manage the play and bring the big Raiders forwards onto the ball.  This works well for Canberra but not as much for England and his slower distribution really stifled our attack when he played for England.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, thebrewxi said:

As I've said before, Hodgson became the player he became in the NRL, not before. He developed into our best Hooker by playing against the best.

Unfortunately that tarnishes him in many Super League fans' eyes.

He can't be our best hooker when time and again he has shown that he is not international standard. Players like Roby and Clarke have done it internationally.

[MrPosh]

On 21/03/2022 at 19:33, THE RED ROOSTER said:

James Roby would not be a good choice for the World Cup. Champion players know when to call it a day and the speed at which Super League is played is slower than International Rugby League.

He has made his decision it should be left at that. What does it say about the standard of English Rugby League that you have posters campaigning for a 37 year old hooker to come out of retirement.

 

I can absolutely promise you that if Cam Smith came out of retirement today, he'd be in an NRL, Queensland and Australia side tomorrow.

Which, of course, would say something entirely different about Australian RL than similar happening here with Roby.

As for Hodgson, he was a great player when he was the main man - calling the shots. His greatest successes at Canberra came when he was playing in front of weak halves and running the show.

When it came to servicing better halves, who were calling the shots, he became pretty average.

That's not a criticism, the opposite if anything, but it tells why he couldn't make an impact at international level.

[WN83]

The hooking role is probably my biggest worry for England ahead of the World Cup. It's unusual to think like that as an English fan because we usually have far bigger concerns and we've been pretty settled in that position. 

I don't rate Hodgson anyway tbh but it's one less option if he misses out. As for the rest Clark looks to be really struggling with injuries, McShane does not look in the best of form, Roby is retired and most of the other options aren't good enough. As things stand I'd probably pick Leeming but he's untested at the very highest level, so it's not ideal. 

[Lowdesert]

57 minutes ago, WN83 said:

The hooking role is probably my biggest worry for England ahead of the World Cup. It's unusual to think like that as an English fan because we usually have far bigger concerns and we've been pretty settled in that position. 

I don't rate Hodgson anyway tbh but it's one less option if he misses out. As for the rest Clark looks to be really struggling with injuries, McShane does not look in the best of form, Roby is retired and most of the other options aren't good enough. As things stand I'd probably pick Leeming but he's untested at the very highest level, so it's not ideal. 

It is for me also.  Barring Leeming, none of our, normally first choice, hookers give me confidence they pose a threat or have strong organisational skills.  Having said that, I dont think Leeming is a starting hooker.

I dont get the hate for Hodgson though.  He was a cracking hooker for HKR and he has done his best years within the NRL.  How many of our exports will ever play at the standard he did remains to be seen.  

If we are considering changing Robys mind (i thought this might happen), why not consider McIllorum?  Neither would let you down but would they compete or finish the tournament?

Right now, I would say Liam Hood is a similar player to McShane but imo is playing better.  Sam Powell is busy concentrating on his discipline but will be in with a shout.  I think we may end up with one solid starting hooker, say Powell/Leeming, and end up subbing him for a Clark/Mikey Lewis.  Speculation i know, but we have a lack of strike power in that position.

[WN83]

8 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

It is for me also.  Barring Leeming, none of our, normally first choice, hookers give me confidence they pose a threat or have strong organisational skills.  Having said that, I dont think Leeming is a starting hooker.

I dont get the hate for Hodgson though.  He was a cracking hooker for HKR and he has done his best years within the NRL.  How many of our exports will ever play at the standard he did remains to be seen.  

If we are considering changing Robys mind (i thought this might happen), why not consider McIllorum?  Neither would let you down but would they compete or finish the tournament?

Right now, I would say Liam Hood is a similar player to McShane but imo is playing better.  Sam Powell is busy concentrating on his discipline but will be in with a shout.  I think we may end up with one solid starting hooker, say Powell/Leeming, and end up subbing him for a Clark/Mikey Lewis.  Speculation i know, but we have a lack of strike power in that position.

I’ve always just felt Hodgson overplays a bit and takes too much ball away from his halves. He’s also been pretty ordinary each time he’s pulled on an England shirt. 
 

Sam Powell isn’t good enough unfortunately. I’m a Wigan fan and not one who rips in to him either but he’s just not got enough to his game IMO. 
 

I think our three main hopes are Leeming, McShane finding top form or Clark finding his fitness and form. I wouldn’t be against Roby sticking his hand up but can’t see it. McIlorum I always felt would’ve been an excellent international hooker in his pomp, as he’d really lead our line speed and intensity but his best days are probably behind him (although he has started well). 
 

One out of the box option I wouldn’t laugh out of town would be George Williams. He started out playing quite a bit of hooker at Wigan, there aren’t many better defensively and he’d carry a real threat with the ball out of there. It wouldn’t be my first choice but spells in there could work. 

[Lowdesert]

21 minutes ago, WN83 said:

I’ve always just felt Hodgson overplays a bit and takes too much ball away from his halves. He’s also been pretty ordinary each time he’s pulled on an England shirt. 
 

Sam Powell isn’t good enough unfortunately. I’m a Wigan fan and not one who rips in to him either but he’s just not got enough to his game IMO. 
 

I think our three main hopes are Leeming, McShane finding top form or Clark finding his fitness and form. I wouldn’t be against Roby sticking his hand up but can’t see it. McIlorum I always felt would’ve been an excellent international hooker in his pomp, as he’d really lead our line speed and intensity but his best days are probably behind him (although he has started well). 
 

One out of the box option I wouldn’t laugh out of town would be George Williams. He started out playing quite a bit of hooker at Wigan, there aren’t many better defensively and he’d carry a real threat with the ball out of there. It wouldn’t be my first choice but spells in there could work. 

Yep.  I did think of Williams.  We aren’t spoiled for choice.

[graveyard johnny]

been a great player but with so many injuries and the age factor no one can turn back the clock - maybe simply time to call it a day 

[Dunbar]

21 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

been a great player but with so many injuries and the age factor no one can turn back the clock - maybe simply time to call it a day 

Hodgson is reportedly set to earn around £456k over the next 2 years with Parramatta.  That's probably worth him having another dig for.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Hodgson is reportedly set to earn around £456k over the next 2 years with Parramatta.  That's probably worth him having another dig for.

Yep. He does go well in the NRL. It seems to suit his style and he has had a great career. He will still manage to go round for a couple more years. 

[graveyard johnny]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Hodgson is reportedly set to earn around £456k over the next 2 years with Parramatta.  That's probably worth him having another dig for.

think the word "earn" there may be the problem - if he was back in the uk with hull kr at this point wouldnt he be drawing a line under his career? the eels were taking a gamble on him before this latest set back - I  would be suprised if he ever pulls on an eels shirt unless they are reckless gamblers 

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

think the word "earn" there may be the problem - if he was back in the uk with hull kr at this point wouldnt he be drawing a line under his career? the eels were taking a gamble on him before this latest set back - I  would be suprised if he ever pulls on an eels shirt unless they are reckless gamblers 

Plenty of players have returned from serious injury to resume their careers and sports medicine and rehab programmes are better than ever.

There is absolutely no reason why Hodgson couldn't be in the right shape to start the 2023 season.

[WN83]

Parra must be pretty worried with the situation on Hodgson. It’s not his first major injury in the last few years and it gets harder and harder to get over them and avoid them as players get older. 
 

 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, WN83 said:

Parra must be pretty worried with the situation on Hodgson. It’s not his first major injury in the last few years and it gets harder and harder to get over them and avoid them as players get older. 
 

 

Parra do like to play fast, I'm not really sure how Hodgson compliments that? 

[graveyard johnny]

4 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Parra must be pretty worried with the situation on Hodgson. It’s not his first major injury in the last few years and it gets harder and harder to get over them and avoid them as players get older. 
 

 

exactly - their financial backers will be shrewd business people who will now see JH as a potential financial liability for the club