New Leeds Rhinos Coach

[Chrispmartha]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Read that back to yourself Chris and consider the points you make, as far as Smith hasn't had a chance of putting 'his' squad together does he not get consulted who should join the club, you have already said he has cleared out some dead wood, so he is just a hench man and as nothing to do with recruitment, well if that is the case no coach will get what they want need or require under that system, it just won't work who ever the coach is, if the coach has a game plan he needs the right player's to make it work,  if you want a comparrison look at Adrian Lam, he signed who he wanted with the assistance of Chris Chester (within finances) and told Mr Beaumont that part of accepting the job is for him to keep his nose out of team affairs, and all done without the luxury of having an academy, in that situation Leeds would be close to relegation now.

The bottom line is, if you employ a coach the team is his domain, and he should live or die by his own actions not interference from elsewhere within the club.

Your comparison with Lam and Chester is flawed because Smith has come in to a club in a different situation.

Smith was hampered last off season in who he could bring in due to salary cap and players who were contracted. This off season is different and will be crucial. 

Hetherington is also a different type of CEO to Derek Beaumont and Leeds are a totally different business to Leigh, Leeds are not reliant on an owner putting money into the club, the set up and business model is totally different to Leigh.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

17 hours ago, DavidM said:

Wow , it’s like that bloke in the Iraq War saying they were destroying the enemy as all the tanks roled up behind him 

Comical Ali you mean?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

17 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Im agreeing with you that’s why im saying Smith isn’t the issue, it’s too simplistic to blame a coach after a big defeat

What solid facts do we know about weaknesses in the club? Which of the following is good, medium or bad? 

Is it finances? /Penny pinching?

Poor youth system ?

Recruitment and man management is poor?

Head coach and training /tactics are poor?

They can't all be good so which ones aren't? 

 

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, rhinos78 said:

Smiths had a shocker this season, anybody saying otherwise is deluded.

His approach to pre-season was a ###### take

He's got a phobia of playing players in their strongest position, Morgan Gannon a prime example, confidence looked shot yesterday at the end of Smiths season long obsession of thinking he can play 6, centre, or whatever else, because he did for siddal u12's or something

Wants to be the smartest person in the room, trying to reinvent the wheel of how the game should be played, often going against the core principals of successful RL, as the table suggests

Now we'r in this constant cycle of the Leeds coach needing time to get ‘their squad‘ and another 'rebuild' that takes years, when coaches at Salford just about yearly and this year Leigh, put squads together on the fly, and have them playing good rugby and finishing above Leeds.

He oversee's error ridden bunch who play some of the dumbest rugby you are likely to see and often dont seem ready for a game against teams in and around them at the bottom of the table. Listening to the players they seem to think its acceptable to scrape into the play offs (even failed with that) which all screams a poor attitude which a coach should be on top of.

All that said, he was a breath of fresh air last season, and he may turn it around next, i really hope he does, but this season, he's got too much wrong. Its the hope that kills you, this year was the first time in a long time i was going into a season thinking we had the right coach at the helm...Then Pre Season started.

Hard to disagree with anything of your comments.

Your last paragraph shouldn't be forgotten too easily as the team did well and played very well to get to the grand final and maybe if Sezzer had played, whom was playing very well at the time, they may have had a closer game. Never-the-less did OK in that final.

As such I would give him another season rather than start again. I think he needs to look at his supporting cast of coaches and maybe bring additional support/replace which is a key aspect of being head coach.

My strongest criticism of him would align with your pre-season comments which seemed to be around getting versatility into the team.  It back fired in starting the season poorly, resulting in loss of confidence and subsequently have too much to do to get into play-offs which meant having more mental pressure with must win games. That early season start made it so difficult with other teams having improved from previous seasons. 

I would hope he has learned but the previous season and turning the team around to produce excellent performances to the play-offs earns him sufficient time of next season for me.   Not to forget the complete demolition of Wigan in the play-off last season which led to many disgruntled Wigan supporters suggesting Peet was not up to the job.  In other words we as fans often haven't a clue and like to thrash-out without much thought at times.

I think you have hit the spot in your comments.

 

 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

What solid facts do we know about weaknesses in the club? Which of the following is good, medium or bad? 

Is it finances? /Penny pinching?

Poor youth system ?

Recruitment and man management is poor?

Head coach and training /tactics are poor?

They can't all be good so which ones aren't? 

 

It’s not finances, we always use full salary cap.

Recruitment and retention has been poor since 2015

Head Coach, well his tactics and training were not in question this time last year, the squad has been disrupted all year and the squad isn’t good enough, see my second point.

We don’t have a poor youth system but I believe it’s been neglected for a while, Smith was brought in to help rectify that and I believe he is doing so but it isn’t a quick fix.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

Hard to disagree with anything of your comments.

Your last paragraph shouldn't be forgotten too easily as the team did well and played very well to get to the grand final and maybe if Sezzer had played, whom was playing very well at the time, they may have had a closer game. Never-the-less did OK in that final.

As such I would give him another season rather than start again. I think he needs to look at his supporting cast of coaches and maybe bring additional support/replace which is a key aspect of being head coach.

My strongest criticism of him would align with your pre-season comments which seemed to be around getting versatility into the team.  It back fired in starting the season poorly, resulting in loss of confidence and subsequently have too much to do to get into play-offs which meant having more mental pressure with must win games. That early season start made it so difficult with other teams having improved from previous seasons. 

I would hope he has learned but the previous season and turning the team around to produce excellent performances to the play-offs earns him sufficient time of next season for me.   Not to forget the complete demolition of Wigan in the play-off last season which led to many disgruntled Wigan supporters suggesting Peet was not up to the job.  In other words we as fans often haven't a clue and like to thrash-out without much thought at times.

I think you have hit the spot in your comments.

 

 

I do agree he’s had a poor year.

We also dismantled Wigan at home this year with 12 players, again with Wigan fans saying Pert wasn’t up to it, what a difference a few months makes!

Just on Gannon playing 6, that was only the first or second game it’s actually happened, and we haven’t got any halfbacks, not sure that was the issue yesterday. 
 

 

[redjonn]

17 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

What solid facts do we know about weaknesses in the club? Which of the following is good, medium or bad? 

Is it finances? /Penny pinching?

Poor youth system ?

Recruitment and man management is poor?

Head coach and training /tactics are poor?

They can't all be good so which ones aren't? 

 

Without being inside the club its hard to answer.  Personally observing from outside I get the sense that the whole setup of the club is stale.  More or less the same board, senior management/administration of the club seems in aspic to me and new blood has been needed to refresh the whole fabric.

Edited September 10, 2023 by redjonn

[redjonn]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

I do agree he’s had a poor year.

We also dismantled Wigan at home this year with 12 players, again with Wigan fans saying Pert wasn’t up to it, what a difference a few months makes!

Just on Gannon playing 6, that was only the first or second game it’s actually happened, and we haven’t got any halfbacks, not sure that was the issue yesterday. 
 

 

yes, Gannon was far from any reason for the actual game yesterday.  I think I gave a long winded view to where the game went away from Leeds to a big defeat in earlier comments in the thread.

As I alluded to Pert was certainly getting bad reviews from some/many Wigan supporters comments, yet now I don't think any of them would put their hands up to their previous observations on him.   We are a frickle lot at times, lacking any patience.

[Harry Stottle]

39 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Your comparison with Lam and Chester is flawed because Smith has come in to a club in a different situation.

Smith was hampered last off season in who he could bring in due to salary cap and players who were contracted. This off season is different and will be crucial. 

Hetherington is also a different type of CEO to Derek Beaumont and Leeds are a totally different business to Leigh, Leeds are not reliant on an owner putting money into the club, the set up and business model is totally different to Leigh.

And so Leeds should be doing so much better than Leigh and probably the rest of the league not languishing in 8th place.

Ask yourself this Chris, do you see Mr Hetherington wilfully giving up what he does at Leeds, he is the one hiring the coaches and it seems to be by his rules and no one elses, a do what I tell you attitude.

There is often talk of the 'Golden Generation' as far as Leeds is concerned, Brian McDermott I believe was a substantial beneficiary from that team, BUT so to was Gary Hetherington and unlike the departed McDermott, Hetherington is still living from it, for the good of the club he needs to step aside and allow the club to develop without his archaic methods which are clearly not working, I couldn't care what happens to Leeds Rhinos to be honest but even Blind Pugh can see all is far from right at Headingley.

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And so Leeds should be doing so much better than Leigh and probably the rest of the league not languishing in 8th place.

Ask yourself this Chris, do you see Mr Hetherington wilfully giving up what he does at Leeds, he is the one hiring the coaches and it seems to be by his rules and no one elses, a do what I tell you attitude.

There is often talk of the 'Golden Generation' as far as Leeds is concerned, Brian McDermott I believe was a substantial beneficiary from that team, BUT so to was Gary Hetherington and unlike the departed McDermott, Hetherington is still living from it, for the good of the club he needs to step aside and allow the club to develop without his archaic methods which are clearly not working, I couldn't care what happens to Leeds Rhinos to be honest but even Blind Pugh can see all is far from right at Headingley.

Yes Leeds should be doing better than Leigh this season but sport isn’t always as simple as that.

Hetherington will step aside at somepoint, not sure what’s archaic about his methods maybe you could expand on that one? The Leeds club is one of if not the most forward thinking clubs in RL, unfortunately the Mens first team has flattered to deceive for a while now and that needs to change.

CEOs so ingrained in a business and sports club like Leeds don’t just leave, it needs to be a planned exit, I do think we’d benefit from a DOR, that was tried with Sinfield but personally and admittedly with hindsight i think it was the wrong appointment.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Yes Leeds should be doing better than Leigh this season but sport isn’t always as simple as that.

Hetherington will step aside at somepoint, not sure what’s archaic about his methods maybe you could expand on that one? The Leeds club is one of if not the most forward thinking clubs in RL, unfortunately the Mens first team has flattered to deceive for a while now and that needs to change.

CEOs so ingrained in a business and sports club like Leeds don’t just leave, it needs to be a planned exit, I do think we’d benefit from a DOR, that was tried with Sinfield but personally and admittedly with hindsight i think it was the wrong appointment.

OK Chris we have a different opinion, as I say I am not at all bothered what happens at the Rhinos, I can now forget about it and continually watch their demise as long as they keep going with the present methods they employ, on the other hand you have to live with it, good luck.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK Chris we have a different opinion, as I say I am not at all bothered what happens at the Rhinos, I can now forget about it and continually watch their demise as long as they keep going with the present methods they employ, on the other hand you have to live with it, good luck.

I take that as an admission you can’t explain these ‘archaic’ methods.

Leeds will be back at somepoint sport is cyclical 

[rhinos78]

Gannon at 6 isnt about yesterdays game, its about Smiths fascination with the idea, he's trained there in pre-season, he's trained there during the season, he's played there in the reserves, he's played there in the first team, to play it down as a one off game because of a lack of halfs shows either a lack of knowledge or willfully turning a blind eye to whats been going on.

Its an idea smith has wasted time on throughout the season, all yesterday did was emphasize what a poor idea it is.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Leeds will be back at somepoint sport is cyclical 

When the archaic methods cease.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

Gannon at 6 isnt about yesterdays game, its about Smiths fascination with the idea, he's trained there in pre-season, he's trained there during the season, he's played there in the reserves, he's played there in the first team, to play it down as a one off game because of a lack of halfs shows either a lack of knowledge or willfully turning a blind eye to whats been going on.

Its an idea smith has wasted time on throughout the season, all yesterday did was emphasize what a poor idea it is.

He’s played there once maybe twice in the first team, hardly a ‘fascination’

Shorrocks has played at 6 for Wigan more times, is peet fascinated with that idea?

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

When the archaic methods cease.

These archaic methods that you can’t explain.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

He’s played there once maybe twice in the first team, hardly a ‘fascination’

Shorrocks has played at 6 for Wigan more times, is peet fascinated with that idea?

Shorrocks isn't terrible at it though...

[rhinos78]

Like i say, lack of knowledge or willfully ignoring whats been going on.

Training at 6 in pre season, training at 6 during the season, playing there for the reserves, all things you have failed to address, maybe you just lack the knowledge, but more likely just selective reading.

Because anyone with an open mind can see this is more than just throwing a player into the halfs because they have no one else

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, rhinos78 said:

Like i say, lack of knowledge or willfully ignoring whats been going on.

Training at 6 in pre season, training at 6 during the season, playing there for the reserves, all things you have failed to address, maybe you just lack the knowledge, but more likely just selective reading.

Because anyone with an open mind can see this is more than just throwing a player into the halfs because they have no one else

No need to get personal I’ve just got a different opinion to you.

 

[Mumby Magic]

This is why Saints should get credit as being the most consistent club in the SL era. Look at their squad now. Littered with home grown players.

With the exception of Oledski and Cam Smith notable juniors have been few and far between. It's not the coaches fault for mine. I do feel Smith has been over thinking the equation and trying too much too soon but he can only play with the cards he's been dealt.

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

Hard to disagree with anything of your comments.

Your last paragraph shouldn't be forgotten too easily as the team did well and played very well to get to the grand final and maybe if Sezzer had played, whom was playing very well at the time, they may have had a closer game. Never-the-less did OK in that final.

As such I would give him another season rather than start again. I think he needs to look at his supporting cast of coaches and maybe bring additional support/replace which is a key aspect of being head coach.

My strongest criticism of him would align with your pre-season comments which seemed to be around getting versatility into the team.  It back fired in starting the season poorly, resulting in loss of confidence and subsequently have too much to do to get into play-offs which meant having more mental pressure with must win games. That early season start made it so difficult with other teams having improved from previous seasons. 

I would hope he has learned but the previous season and turning the team around to produce excellent performances to the play-offs earns him sufficient time of next season for me.   Not to forget the complete demolition of Wigan in the play-off last season which led to many disgruntled Wigan supporters suggesting Peet was not up to the job.  In other words we as fans often haven't a clue and like to thrash-out without much thought at times.

I think you have hit the spot in your comments.

 

 

Yeah agree also. The problems start higher up though at boardroom level. Hetherington was looking at Sinfield for a succession plan but Sinfield decided he preferred to be a coach than an administrator. There’s been no developments since then and it really feels like the club is a bit rudderless and directionless. 

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

These archaic methods that you can’t explain.

If you can't see that Mr H is Yesterday's man then no further comment needs adding.

[Chrispmartha]

52 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If you can't see that Mr H is Yesterday's man then no further comment needs adding.

Or you could just back up what you are saying.

What is archaic about how Gary Hetherington runs the Rugby Club he is CEO of? 

[Harry Stottle]

36 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Or you could just back up what you are saying.

What is archaic about how Gary Hetherington runs the Rugby Club he is CEO of? 

There was a time when the owners/CE's stuck their nose in on teams affairs, Beaumont did it, not any longer he is not welcome anymore, it is up to the coaches to coach and say who he wants in his team without any one sticking their two'pennarth in, does that happen at Leeds,  honest answer please Chris, that us what I mean about arcaich methods.

That's my last on this, as I say I couldn't give two hoots about Leeds future.

[Chrispmartha]

27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was a time when the owners/CE's stuck their nose in on teams affairs, Beaumont did it, not any longer he is not welcome anymore, it is up to the coaches to coach and say who he wants in his team without any one sticking their two'pennarth in, does that happen at Leeds,  honest answer please Chris, that us what I mean about arcaich methods.

That's my last on this, as I say I couldn't give two hoots about Leeds future.

Rohan Smith says which players he wants and its up to Gary Hetherington to try and get them.

So whats archaic about that? Doesn’t sound too dissimilar to what happens at Leigh.