european cup

[welshmagpie]

8 minutes ago, jim_57 said:

I still think they surely have to split it in to 2 tiers of 4, not pools of 4. England B would put 100 on Spain & Serbia, quite frankly it would be a waste of a scarce international weekend.

I’m led to believe it’s 2 groups of 4 and not 2 tiers. Maybe they will be clever with the draw, maybe Spain will tap into their many eligible French players - who knows!? Find out in 12 months. 

[JT RL]

16 hours ago, Rlsouthyorks said:

are half the games in the world cup going to be competitive ? i dont think so but unless you give nations a chance how can the game progress . Look at football they give every team a chance on equal footing. Even the womens game you get big scores but i would say no it has over taken rugby league. 

Morning.

There are c. 2.5 million registered women playing soccer in England.

There are c. 245k registered people playing rugby league in the UK.

That provides a perspective.

re.European Cup 

if England & France are included

It’s cart before the horse .. Cobbling together national teams from various places, various individuals, which can be random. Is there any real evidence that this strategy has led to genuine, long term, sustainable rugby league development taking place ?

(consider 1995, Wales v Samoa)

(consider, Lebanon does not even have a functioning government / society)

so. European Cup. Build it as an U21 comp. Select from national competitions only.

re. World Cup mis-matches

At least it’s only occasionally, that the comp takes place, few will remember the random games, as the big games stay in the mind. Plus the games against these countries act as warm ups.

I would add a “plate” competition for group losers, to play each other.

(But I would hold the World Cup every 5 years)

[jim_57]

14 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

I’m led to believe it’s 2 groups of 4 and not 2 tiers. Maybe they will be clever with the draw, maybe Spain will tap into their many eligible French players - who knows!? Find out in 12 months. 

It’s a start, hopefully it can become a once every 4 year event the year after the World Cup. I do think it’s a mistake if England use up one of their 4-5 international weekends post season playing Spain or Serbia who are nowhere near that level.

In fact if this goes ahead like mentioned England will almost certainly send out the Knights. Come to think of it aren’t they already supposedly planning a series against NZ?

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, jim_57 said:

It’s a start, hopefully it can become a once every 4 year event the year after the World Cup. I do think it’s a mistake if England use up one of their 4-5 international weekends post season playing Spain or Serbia who are nowhere near that level.

In fact if this goes ahead like mentioned England will almost certainly send out the Knights. Come to think of it aren’t they already supposedly planning a series against NZ?

England's internationals next year are a mid season match v Combined Nations, and a three-test series which I think is assumed to be against NZ but hasn't been officially confirmed (just extensively reported).

If this tournament is going ahead as well then it will almost certainly be against England Knights.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

England's internationals next year are a mid season match v Combined Nations, and a three-test series which I think is assumed to be against NZ but hasn't been officially confirmed (just extensively reported).

If this tournament is going ahead as well then it will almost certainly be against England Knights.

The combined nations games are ghastly, as the attendances demonstrate.  I’d prefer to have a three match series against someone other than NZ as we play them so often but if (big if) they win the WC it would be ok as at least we’d be playing the world champions. 

[kdizl]

I think England should be trying to promote France, Wales and Ireland as potentially genuine rivals that are worthwhile opponents. France and Wales have the best participation and Ireland has the strongest heritage pool to exploit. 

Straight round robin with no final. 

Mid season

France - England in Toulouse (20k)

Wales - Ireland in Bridgend (8k)

After Grand final

Wales - England in Wrexham (15k)

Ireland - France in Dublin (8k)

England - Ireland in Leeds (20k)

France - Wales in Albi (13k)

Announce fixtures, venues and arrange broadcasts early and treat them as a serious contest. Can be played in off years between World Cups and a Six Nations competition. I think realistically you could at least half-fill those venues in each match if given priority. 

After that you host the Kiwis or the Kangaroos for a three test series to pay the bills. 

[UTK]

Interesting that Ged Corcoran made a point earlier in the year around taking players into the World Cup who were fully committed to representing Ireland not only in World Cup years but the fixtures inbetween as well.

Since then we've seen a handful of quality NRL/SL/NSW Cup players get selected in the squad for the cup so I wonder - did Corcoran throw this mentality out the door in pursuit of immediate success and auto-qualification or are these players indeed committed to turning out for Ireland in competitions such as the European Championship. If the correct answer is the latter then we do potentially have three top nations capable of holding a relatively competitive top tier in England/France/Ireland - when I say relatively competitive I would suggest an England loss would be certainly considered on the far fetched side but I honestly don't think the scorelines would be outrageous. Unfortunately now that the last of the Crusaders crop are heading toward retirement the Welsh players pool is beginning to suffer, and they unfortunately are unlikely to be able to hold their own in this scenario as a 4th Nation from Europe.

In any case it was nice to see RLI make a post on their social media that some of their u19s squad were brought out to train with the World Cup side. What an amazing experience that would've been for those lads to experience training in that high performance environment while rubbing shoulders with SL/NRL stars, it really shows a clear determination to integrate the heritage-based National side with the domestic scene in order to create some tangible benefits in running with a stronger side at the WC.

[rlno1]

Why don't they revert back to what we had with the 4 nations. England qualify, the other nations fight it out for the final spot in a euro type tournament. 

[welshmagpie]

16 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Why don't they revert back to what we had with the 4 nations. England qualify, the other nations fight it out for the final spot in a euro type tournament. 

I suppose we’ve come further than the ‘3 strong nations’ we had back then.

My suggestion would be…

4Nations (World Cup Semi-Finalists)

Federation Shield (World Cup Quarter Finalists)

 

 

[jim_57]

2 hours ago, UTK said:

Interesting that Ged Corcoran made a point earlier in the year around taking players into the World Cup who were fully committed to representing Ireland not only in World Cup years but the fixtures inbetween as well.

Since then we've seen a handful of quality NRL/SL/NSW Cup players get selected in the squad for the cup so I wonder - did Corcoran throw this mentality out the door in pursuit of immediate success and auto-qualification or are these players indeed committed to turning out for Ireland in competitions such as the European Championship. If the correct answer is the latter then we do potentially have three top nations capable of holding a relatively competitive top tier in England/France/Ireland - when I say relatively competitive I would suggest an England loss would be certainly considered on the far fetched side but I honestly don't think the scorelines would be outrageous. Unfortunately now that the last of the Crusaders crop are heading toward retirement the Welsh players pool is beginning to suffer, and they unfortunately are unlikely to be able to hold their own in this scenario as a 4th Nation from Europe.

In any case it was nice to see RLI make a post on their social media that some of their u19s squad were brought out to train with the World Cup side. What an amazing experience that would've been for those lads to experience training in that high performance environment while rubbing shoulders with SL/NRL stars, it really shows a clear determination to integrate the heritage-based National side with the domestic scene in order to create some tangible benefits in running with a stronger side at the WC.

I hope you’re right about Ireland, it’d be great to see someone like Keary play in a Euro Cup for them.

If reducing club games and increasing international games is a genuine target in the latest proposals then 2-3 weekends mid-season shouldn’t be out of the question. That would open up something like you suggest or dare I say it even a 4 “nations” featuring England, Ireland, France and CNAS. 2nd tier played same time with Wales, Scotland & 1-2 others with P&R either outright or play-off post season.

[MatthewWoody]

3 hours ago, kdizl said:

I think England should be trying to promote France, Wales and Ireland as potentially genuine rivals that are worthwhile opponents. France and Wales have the best participation and Ireland has the strongest heritage pool to exploit. 

Straight round robin with no final. 

Mid season

France - England in Toulouse (20k)

Wales - Ireland in Bridgend (8k)

After Grand final

Wales - England in Wrexham (15k)

Ireland - France in Dublin (8k)

England - Ireland in Leeds (20k)

France - Wales in Albi (13k)

Announce fixtures, venues and arrange broadcasts early and treat them as a serious contest. Can be played in off years between World Cups and a Six Nations competition. I think realistically you could at least half-fill those venues in each match if given priority. 

After that you host the Kiwis or the Kangaroos for a three test series to pay the bills. 

This would be a very very long International window. 

[welshmagpie]

56 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

This would be a very very long International window. 

Ignore me.

Edited October 10, 2022 by welshmagpie

[Jughead]

The way to grow the game internationally, much like the way to grow the game domestically as we’ve seen in League One for example, isn’t just to drop “new” teams onto a pitch with more established teams and expect something to happen at some undefined point in the future. We’ve seen with Hemel, Oxford, All Golds, West Wales and their previous incarnations and even London Skolars and Coventry/Midlands where just placing them in the league and leaving them to their own devices is not always the best for those teams or those they’re facing. 

There’s a functioning league system in France, with pathways to progress to the Super League and Championship. There’s two sides in Wales, that arguably need a bit of care and guidance. Focus on those, it’s win-win. Stronger clubs in the domestic leagues and stronger links internationally can only help each other. I wouldn’t bother with Scotland or Ireland for some time, if I’m honest. Both can name strong squads and have done previously but I think we need to get away from relying on a handful of elite players for both. 

[JM2010]

5 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

I suppose we’ve come further than the ‘3 strong nations’ we had back then.

My suggestion would be…

4Nations (World Cup Semi-Finalists)

Federation Shield (World Cup Quarter Finalists)

 

 

I like this idea. Could then run the regional tournaments underneath to qualify for federation shield.

4N  - AUS, NZ, Samoa, England

Federation - Tonga, Fiji, PNG, Lebanon

Regional

Top team in each group play off to replace bottom finisher in Federation 

Euro - France, Ireland, Scotland, Wales 

Americas- Jamaica, USA, Canada, Brazil 

MEA, Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya, South Africa

Pacific - Cook Islands, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands 

At the end of year 3 the 4N, Federation automatically qualify for WC with the other 8 places determined with a certain amount of places available from each region and play offe.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Lad]

13 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

No it wouldn’t because it’s commercially worthless as we have seen because this type of european championship pre covid existed. No one watches it, it gets no tv exposure and as such cannot generate rev for countries.

because of this lots of players quite rightly dont put their hand up and risk injuries that could harm their careers in these games.

The only way to do something like this atm would be a knockout with semi and final in mid season, where England and France are already in the semis. Still get an annual game vs France but other nations do have the chance to be involved in meaningful games (If they win).

So as an example Wales vs Ireland, Scotland vs whoever . Winners play England or France mid season, winners of that (England and France) meet in final.

If it gets no tv exposure then no one will watch it, because of that it won't generate money will it. So maybe putting it on channels where people can see it for a dedicated period of time would start to solve these problems.

As far as people not wanting to play for these teams, if a person don't want to play for the country then they don't get picked.

The idea that it could only work if England where a part of it is such an outdated idea of international rugby, strong teams make a strong tournament and having England win every European cup for the next 10 years at a canter won't help the teams in the competition or improve Englands game. But creating a bigger competition with more nations, playing more games could help them grow along with friendlies against the bigger nations.

I agree that we need more money in the sport and people aren't watching the product, but the solution isn't to put a big name in the comp and see them winning every time.  

[Coastal_Geordie]

Would the NRL players show up for Lebanon, Italy etc for a less prestigious tournament than the WC?

Im not sure e.g. Keary would bother coming over to play for Ireland on a smaller stage.

Without the NRL heritage players some of the European teams would be much weaker and less of a draw commercially.

[Tosh]

19 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Why don't they revert back to what we had with the 4 nations. England qualify, the other nations fight it out for the final spot in a euro type tournament. 

The 4nations and tri-nations cup/tournament prior was a great concept imo and should never have been scrapped in the first place.

2 northern hemisphere countries alongside 2 Southern Hemisphere countries when played in the northern hemisphere and then 1 northern hemisphere country alongside 3 Southern Hemisphere countries when played down under.

[JM2010]

9 hours ago, Coastal_Geordie said:

Would the NRL players show up for Lebanon, Italy etc for a less prestigious tournament than the WC?

Im not sure e.g. Keary would bother coming over to play for Ireland on a smaller stage.

Without the NRL heritage players some of the European teams would be much weaker and less of a draw commercially.

That's why making these regional tournaments qualifiers for bigger tournaments involving the top nations might work. Gives them something to play for and might encourage players to commit if they know they've got a chance of playing against the better sides the following year

[RugbyLeagueGermany]

What is actually going on with the "Euro XIII"? That doesn't really come up either. Will the tournament ever take place?

 

Euro XIII - Wikipedia

[Tosh]

34 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGermany said:

What is actually going on with the "Euro XIII"? That doesn't really come up either. Will the tournament ever take place?

 

Euro XIII - Wikipedia

It’s going to run concurrently with the NARL

[gingerjon]

40 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGermany said:

What is actually going on with the "Euro XIII"? That doesn't really come up either. Will the tournament ever take place?

Euro XIII will never take place.

[Londonbornirishbred]

On 11/10/2022 at 01:16, jim_57 said:

I hope you’re right about Ireland, it’d be great to see someone like Keary play in a Euro Cup for them.

The issue is the flights. It's all well and good saying that NRL players need to commit, but they're "owned" by the clubs. A 36 hour flight, game or 2 and return 36 hour flight in a 10 day period won't sit well with NRL conditioning coaches.

I'd like to see more effort put into university level participation. An U23's European comp and like other sports, maybe 3 overage spots on the team....