Electric Cars

[JohnM]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So renting is cheaper than buying ? , Fine if you have a guaranteed income , funny how everybody forgets to mention the initial rental payment of several thousand pounds though , it isnt any cheaper than buying , you are being conned by a sales pitch 

Exactly.  For the private buyer taking out a PCP there's an initial  deposit or rental, then a monthly paymment for say 3 years. At the end of that period you hand the vehicle back, pay for any excess mileage, deal with any variation in the guaranteed value. Then you'll be persuaded to use that as a deposit for a new PCP. Repeat for life.

Its still borrowing, although it's obviously easy and  convenient. The recent increase in interest rates will no doubt soon be reflected in new contract prices and as actual residuals for EVs become better understood,  things might get better..or worse.

In addition, it seems that EVs may soon be subject to VED.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, JohnM said:

Exactly.  For the private buyer taking out a PCP there's an initial  deposit or rental, then a monthly paymment for say 3 years. At the end of that period you hand the vehicle back, pay for any excess mileage, deal with any variation in the guaranteed value. Then you'll be persuaded to use that as a deposit for a new PCP. Repeat for life.

Its still borrowing, although it's obviously easy and  convenient. The recent increase in interest rates will no doubt soon be reflected in new contract prices and as actual residuals for EVs become better understood,  things might get better..or worse.

In addition, it seems that EVs may soon be subject to VED.

You can also buy the car at the end of a PCP - or indeed sell it at anytime (probably at a loss) or once you have oaid 50% of the total value just hand it back.

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

[Chrispmartha]

59 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

 

It’s not surprising theres hardly anything to maintain 

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

It’s not surprising theres hardly anything to maintain 

Yet 

[Chrispmartha]

24 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yet 

The cost may go up but they are easier to maintain not sure how that will change.

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

The cost may go up but they are easier to maintain not sure how that will change.

Yes and no , mate of mine who has a garage , needs to spend thousands on more tools to work on Hybrid and electric , so it's dealers or specialists , who will charge , my experience of main dealers from the past is not good 

I bought a Disco 2 from the LR dealer in St Helens , 48,000 service they parked it up facing a wall , when I called to fuel it up I noticed the black paint was peeling off the grill " oh , they've done that again " was the response from the service manager , 60,000 service costing nearly 700 quid a week later noticed a diesel leak , too busy to go back so got my mate to have a look a month later , they'd ' self tapped ' a 7/16s bolt into an aluminium casting that they'd threaded , " we wouldn't do that " , " well you've serviced it since new " , 

Mate of mine took his X5 into Halliwell Jones for a service , noticed they'd charged him for an air filter , so he asked to see the old one , mechanic brought an old one in , " can you bring me my air filter " he asked again , they hadn't even opened the air box , he had a K and N washable filter in it 

So even though there might not be as many engine things that need servicing , they'll screw you on everything else 

[JohnM]

Since EVs need 40% less labour to build, no doubt that will soon be reflected in the price.

https://www.ft.com/content/8df00b42-4e3f-4a45-b665-2726720105e0

[RayCee]

51 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Since EVs need 40% less labour to build, no doubt that will soon be reflected in the price.

https://www.ft.com/content/8df00b42-4e3f-4a45-b665-2726720105e0

Behind a paywall for me so I hope I’m not going to cover what the article says.

I read a while back that labour costs in building a car represents approximately 10% of the price. A 40% less labour cost is a useful saving on a high ticket item but not only a 4% saving overall. 

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

Behind a paywall for me so I hope I’m not going to cover what the article says.

I read a while back that labour costs in building a car represents approximately 10% of the price. A 40% less labour cost is a useful saving on a high ticket item but not only a 4% saving overall. 

Tried to quote part of the article, but yes, it's now vanished behind the paywall. 

[gazza77]

18 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes and no , mate of mine who has a garage , needs to spend thousands on more tools to work on Hybrid and electric , so it's dealers or specialists , who will charge , my experience of main dealers from the past is not good 

I bought a Disco 2 from the LR dealer in St Helens , 48,000 service they parked it up facing a wall , when I called to fuel it up I noticed the black paint was peeling off the grill " oh , they've done that again " was the response from the service manager , 60,000 service costing nearly 700 quid a week later noticed a diesel leak , too busy to go back so got my mate to have a look a month later , they'd ' self tapped ' a 7/16s bolt into an aluminium casting that they'd threaded , " we wouldn't do that " , " well you've serviced it since new " , 

Mate of mine took his X5 into Halliwell Jones for a service , noticed they'd charged him for an air filter , so he asked to see the old one , mechanic brought an old one in , " can you bring me my air filter " he asked again , they hadn't even opened the air box , he had a K and N washable filter in it 

So even though there might not be as many engine things that need servicing , they'll screw you on everything else 

My experience of main dealers has generally been very good, particularly for motorbikes. 

Lile any businesses, you'll get some good and some not so good. Independent garages are just the same. 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, gazza77 said:

My experience of main dealers has generally been very good, particularly for motorbikes. 

Lile any businesses, you'll get some good and some not so good. Independent garages are just the same. 

But cheaper , and rely on getting it right , not having the correct stamp in the book 

[JohnM]

Electric cars registered from April 2025 will pay the lowest rate VED of £10 in the first year, then move to the standard rate which is currently £165.

[GUBRATS]

I drive a 02 Merc sprinter for work , I've owned it from 6 months old , 2 weeks ago it needed a new alternator , fitted it cost 300 quid , my mechanic mate told me , if it had been a 10 yr old van , it would have been closer to 500 , due to it being a ' smart ' alternator 

Essentially the later the vehicle the more expensive the part , and critically the more work involved in fitting it , sometimes I'll visit his workshop to see a completely dismantled vehicle , requiring what I would have considered replacement of a simple part , my previous car , a mk 1 Freelander needed a new thermostat , now I've replaced them in cars several times , usually a couple of nuts/ bolts and twenty minutes , it was a 4 hour job ! , It's just getting worse 

[gazza77]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

But cheaper , and rely on getting it right , not having the correct stamp in the book 

I've had experience of independent places not knowing their elbow from the hole in their backside and had dealer groups provide excellent service foc. Equally, I often use independent local garages and specialists that I trust to do a good job. As I currently have 5 vehicles on the go, I use whichever is best for the one in question, which isn't done by just assuming all dealers are bad/all independents are good. Experience, reviews and recommendations I find the best way to judge. 

[gazza77]

31 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I drive a 02 Merc sprinter for work , I've owned it from 6 months old , 2 weeks ago it needed a new alternator , fitted it cost 300 quid , my mechanic mate told me , if it had been a 10 yr old van , it would have been closer to 500 , due to it being a ' smart ' alternator 

Essentially the later the vehicle the more expensive the part , and critically the more work involved in fitting it , sometimes I'll visit his workshop to see a completely dismantled vehicle , requiring what I would have considered replacement of a simple part , my previous car , a mk 1 Freelander needed a new thermostat , now I've replaced them in cars several times , usually a couple of nuts/ bolts and twenty minutes , it was a 4 hour job ! , It's just getting worse 

I have a 23 year old MX5 as part of my fleet, and it costs comparatively bobbins to maintain. No abs, traction control or other electronic safety measures, no sensors here there and everywhere and very few electrics (no central locking for example) means less to go wrong. Repairing technology costs, and as safety regs mean increasing technology it's only likely to get worse, whether ice, electric, hydrogen or any other power source. 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

I have a 23 year old MX5 as part of my fleet, and it costs comparatively bobbins to maintain. No abs, traction control or other electronic safety measures, no sensors here there and everywhere and very few electrics (no central locking for example) means less to go wrong. Repairing technology costs, and as safety regs mean increasing technology it's only likely to get worse, whether ice, electric, hydrogen or any other power source. 

Just the general overcomplication of vehicles , the addition of not needed sensors to tell people things they should notice anyway , and the focus on manufacturing ease over the ability to fix things afterwards 

Give me an old car anyday 

[RayCee]

I drive a 17 year young car, had it from new. It’s been so reliable & cheap to run. I've considered replacing it but the huge cost to essentially replace a good car I already have put me off. It’s still tidy & easy to use.

I've now reached a point where new cars don’t appeal to me. I actually like switches & buttons. I don’t want a touch screen with numerous sub menus to navigate. I want to keep my eyes on the road. Modern cars are also less reliable, too complicated.

I feel cars peaked ten to twenty years ago in terms of reliability & necessary features. Maybe electric cars will prove more reliable with fewer parts but I still want real instrumentation, not virtual. I will keep my well maintained hack until forced to change.

Edited November 18, 2022 by RayCee

[GUBRATS]

33 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I drive a 17 year young car, had it from new. It’s been so reliable & cheap to run. I've considered replacing it but the huge cost to essentially replace a good car I already have put me off. It’s still tidy & easy to use.

I've now reached a point where new cars don’t appeal to me. I actually like switches & buttons. I don’t want a touch screen with numerous sub menus to navigate. I want to keep my eyes on the road. Modern cars are also less reliable, too complicated.

I feel cars peaked ten to twenty years ago in terms of reliability & necessary features. Maybe electric cars will prove more reliable with fewer parts but I still want real instrumentation, not virtual. I will keep my well maintained hack until forced to change.

Do you still see the occasional ' Maori Mustang ' knocking about these days ?

[RayCee]

11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Do you still see the occasional ' Maori Mustang ' knocking about these days ?

Not where I live and maybe that time's past. 

[JohnM]

On 17/11/2022 at 21:30, GUBRATS said:

Just the general overcomplication of vehicles , the addition of not needed sensors to tell people things they should notice anyway , and the focus on manufacturing ease over the ability to fix things afterwards 

Give me an old car anyday 

Has anyone done that and if so, what will you do with them all?

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, JohnM said:

Has anyone done that and if so, what will you do with them all?

I've got 2 in my garden/garage 

A 1967 series 2a Land Rover 

A 1960 100e Ford Popular 

Both waiting for my retirement

[DI Keith Fowler]

Put my order in for a Kia Niro through work, expected to get it sometime in Feb. Wanted something solid with a good range for trips up to Cumbria. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

My car will not let me move if I don't plug in the seat belt 

All well and good but I am almost definite at some stage this will go wrong 

It will probably be £300 to repair 

 

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Put my order in for a Kia Niro through work, expected to get it sometime in Feb. Wanted something solid with a good range for trips up to Cumbria. 

Get a decent used Skoda Superb Estate diesel. You can get one within 24 hours. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by JohnM