Putting money in the women's game (was: Wigan Warriors: Bankrupt)

[Tommygilf]

NRLW, follow the template.

[ELBOWSEYE]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

Do the women’s team bring any money into the club though? If not I can understand why they’re not making this a full time role (though I’d like to think they’ll be remunerated in some way at least). 

Do the activities of club paid community coaches bring in any money or is it part of a role a professional club undertakes in its community. Warrington have paid employees involved with pdrl and womens. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, EggFace said:

We need to help the mens game out before we start with the women game.

Its not a choice of one or the other its all aspects, mens, womens, junior, wheelchair, pdrl. Its the future and they are all equally important. 

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Its not a choice of one or the other its all aspects, mens, womens, junior, wheelchair, pdrl. Its the future and they are all equally important. 

I'd argue they aren't 

[ELBOWSEYE]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd argue they aren't 

Lots will, but the other sections other than mens and juniors are on the up and have plenty of potential player wise and exposure wise. And I'd put forward they are an opportunity to increase clubs fan base to people who wouldn't normally go to club games, you can't ignore any of the sections to concentrate on what some perceive as the most important. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Lots will, but the other sections other than mens and juniors are on the up and have plenty of potential player wise and exposure wise. And I'd put forward they are an opportunity to increase clubs fan base to people who wouldn't normally go to club games, you can't ignore any of the sections to concentrate on what some perceive as the most important. 

Do they have income wise ? 

[lacuna1]

Wigan bought everyone in the 80's and 90's and won everything because they are evil and the only professional club (even though they weren't) and it wasn't fair.

Wigan don't bankroll an amateur side that doesn't bring the club any revenue and keeps the comp equal and they are evil.

I don't work for the club either, why the hell am i not getting a wage dammit!!!! EVIL!

 

Let's be honest here, this is just a Wigan bashing thread isn't it? Keep the envy coming boys and girls.

[RBKnight]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

My opinion on the women's game 

They should remain as a community club competition for the foreseeable future , assisted by local ( or not ) Pro clubs both in coaching ( players and women's coaches ) and potentially in staging games at pro club venues as curtain raisers and the like , so let's say Leeds instead of just having their women's team playing at Headingley could have various local community clubs playing , 

The often quoted ' issue ' that the men's game has is lack of participation numbers , if we are not careful we will end up with the same problem with the women's game , also as we seem to be now seeing , we could easily end up with 2/3 teams of semi professional nature collecting all the best players and just dominating the top league , again another problem we all admit we have with the men's pro game 

In a few years of concentrated work and investment ( in the whole women's game , not just at 3/4 clubs ) we might have the numbers and spread of talent to put together a semi pro league based at the existing Pro clubs , including perhaps a fully pro French team playing as Catalans do 

The next bit is really going to upset 

For me we need to also ask a question of what we want the women's game to look like ? , Do we want a highly physical size based game like the men's ? , Or a more skill based game ? 

I'd even go as far as suggesting a reduced number of players and pitch size as an early option for a decade to help more community clubs put together teams 

 

It's almost as if you have never encountered the women's game before........ 

"They should remain as a community club competition for the foreseeable future" - err, the Women's Super League has been in existence since 2017

There has been an exponential grown in young women playing league in the last couple of years. The real issue is how we provide a proper pathway out of the community clubs towards the top level for these young women (mainly teenagers), which requires coaching, training and strength and conditioning resources. Very few clubs offer this, and until they do, the competition will remain lop-sided.

Edited November 13, 2022 by RBKnight

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, lacuna1 said:

Let's be honest here, this is just a Wigan bashing thread isn't it? Keep the envy coming boys and girls.

No.

It was started, by me, in response to seeing negative comments from Wigan fans about this post.

The negativity is twofold, basically.

One: it is an example of a professional, millions in turnover, rugby league club expecting someone to do a full time job for literally no pay.

Two: it is an example of the women's game being an afterthought, which is not a good look when every other sport is seeing exponential growth in participation, visibility and, yup, income from its women's games.

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Do they have income wise ? 

Really short sighted.

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

It's almost as if you have never encountered the women's game before........ 

"They should remain as a community club competition for the foreseeable future" - err, the Women's Super League has been in existence since 2017

There has been an exponential grown in young women playing league in the last couple of years. The real issue is how we provide a proper pathway out of the community clubs towards the top level for these young women (mainly teenagers), which requires coaching, training and strength and conditioning resources. Very few clubs offer this, and until they do, the competition will remain lop-sided.

Honestly I think we should take note of the NRLW. It went with just 4 teams in that elite professional division initially, I believe that is now being expanded to 8. 

Some clubs won't be able to invest the required amount, which is fair enough if they can't, but they shouldn't be in the top tier (as should be the case in every elite league in the sport).

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Honestly I think we should take note of the NRLW. It went with just 4 teams in that elite professional division initially, I believe that is now being expanded to 8. 

Some clubs won't be able to invest the required amount, which is fair enough if they can't, but they shouldn't be in the top tier (as should be the case in every elite league in the sport).

The key difference and I am happy to be corrected by people who know more than me about this as I understand it, is that a three game (or whatever it was) NRLW season was okay for the players as they had other non NRLW clubs to play for.

We do that - and I agree with the principle but - and there is no other set of clubs those women can play for (see but in bold above). I'm not normally on board with worries about union but you'd be looking at some highly skilled women rugby players just looking for something to do. The Red Roses would definitely come looking.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The key difference and I am happy to be corrected by people who know more than me about this as I understand it, is that a three game (or whatever it was) NRLW season was okay for the players as they had other non NRLW clubs to play for.

We do that - and I agree with the principle but - and there is no other set of clubs those women can play for (see but in bold above). I'm not normally on board with worries about union but you'd be looking at some highly skilled women rugby players just looking for something to do. The Red Roses would definitely come looking.

I think we potentially move to an elite 4 team division, which lets be honest is not all that different from what we have now with what 6 teams in the top division?

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

To be fair I’m certain Wigan Rugby League runs at a loss, like almost every club, with that loss covered by the Leneghan family. They help the womens’ game grow locally by using their brand, sharing their resources where possible, and no doubt investing some real funds to do so even if it can’t cover everything.
 

I guarantee that if @gingerjonwould like to pay the salary of this role to add to their own funding of womens’ rugby then I’m certain they’d gladly receive that support, and who knows they might even put your name on the shirt in exchange.

Until that happens I think we need to get real here, and avoid such judgemental twaddle

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

To be fair I’m certain Wigan Rugby League runs at a loss, like almost every club, with that loss covered by the Leneghan family. They help the womens’ game grow locally by using their brand, sharing their resources where possible, and no doubt investing some real funds to do so even if it can’t cover everything.
 

I guarantee that if @gingerjonwould like to pay the salary of this role to add to their own funding of womens’ rugby then I’m certain they’d gladly receive that support, and who knows they might even put your name on the shirt in exchange.

Until that happens I think we need to get real here, and avoid such judgemental twaddle

They need to stop expecting people to do full time jobs for free.

One of the founding principles of rugby league was that people deserve to be paid for their labour.

[RBKnight]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think we potentially move to an elite 4 team division, which lets be honest is not all that different from what we have now with what 6 teams in the top division?

To be fair, on the field, Wigan are a competitive team once they can get their best players on the field. They have always looked well-coached (especially defensively) to my untutored eye. Their problem is their lack of depth, which meant for three-quarters of last season they looked very poor with five or six players out.

Huddersfield had a very young team out last year will some potential, despite getting stuffed every week. I'm not sure, retrospectively, that stepping up to the top tier last season instead of Warrington did them any favours.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They need to stop expecting people to do full time jobs for free.

One of the founding principles of rugby league was that people deserve to be paid for their labour.

I agree. If they can't afford a Team Manager, they shouldn't be advertising for a Team Manager. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They need to stop expecting people to do full time jobs for free.

One of the founding principles of rugby league was that people deserve to be paid for their labour.

Easy to say when you’re not writing cheques

There are thousands of people volunteering in rugby league coaching roles across the country. All Wigan have done is advertised for one of those volunteer spots publicly. 

Get your money out of your pocket, or put your judgement on hold. Can’t have it both ways. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree. If they can't afford a Team Manager, they shouldn't be advertising for a Team Manager. 

Yeah, let’s not ask if anyone would be interested in volunteering. Just let the womens team do without that help, even though someone might be interested in doing it. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Get your money out of your pocket, or put your judgement on hold. Can’t have it both ways. 

Yeah, I think I can.

I've no issue with volunteering roles. I even manage a few where I work.

But when you're basically asking someone to do a pretty demanding full time job for no pay then that's not right and I'm happy to call that out.

[Chrispmartha]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd argue they aren't 

Womens sport is undergoing a lot of growth, RL should be embracing it fully as it has loads of potential to bring new supporters to the game.

Your club has seen the potential and good for them

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yeah, let’s not ask if anyone would be interested in volunteering. Just let the womens team do without that help, even though someone might be interested in doing it. 

I believe in a fair days pay for a fair days work. 

Volunteering should be for a few hours here and there community work etc. 

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

 

Get your money out of your pocket, or put your judgement on hold. Can’t have it both ways. 

Actually, you can. 

People can challenge things they don't think are right. People are free to disagree. 

You can't remove people's right to object just because they won't pay for it. 

 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I believe in a fair days pay for a fair days work. 

Volunteering should be for a few hours here and there community work etc. 

It always amuses me when you see some comments on these types of threads. A lot of current Rugby League fans don't realise how close to the Reverend Frank Marshall they are. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

No.

It was started, by me, in response to seeing negative comments from Wigan fans about this post.

The negativity is twofold, basically.

One: it is an example of a professional, millions in turnover, rugby league club expecting someone to do a full time job for literally no pay.

Two: it is an example of the women's game being an afterthought, which is not a good look when every other sport is seeing exponential growth in participation, visibility and, yup, income from its women's games.

Is it full time though? I have no idea how often they train but I’d wager it’s two evenings a week, the same as many amateur clubs?  I get that you want the women’s game to be full time, and so do I, but realistically most clubs haven’t got a pot to slash in so they can’t be paying full time wages to staff working part time hours on amateur teams.