Putting money in the women's game (was: Wigan Warriors: Bankrupt)

[gingerjon]

Just now, Eddie said:

Is it full time though? I have no idea how often they train but I’d wager it’s two evenings a week, the same as many amateur clubs?  I get that you want the women’s game to be full time, and so do I, but realistically most clubs haven’t got a pot to slash in so they can’t be paying full time wages to staff working part time hours on amateur teams. 

Did you look at the description of the role?

Seriously, the list of what's expected is massive.

As I said up thread, do all that and do it right, and you would have no time for an actual job.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Did you look at the description of the role?

Seriously, the list of what's expected is massive.

As I said up thread, do all that and do it right, and you would have no time for an actual job.

Fair enough, no I hadn’t read it. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

26 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It always amuses me when you see some comments on these types of threads. A lot of current Rugby League fans don't realise how close to the Reverend Frank Marshall they are. 

Nonsense. This is just a load of sanctimonious twaddle. Nobody is running the women’s game for commercial gain, and seeking to exploit amateur players and officials. The entire sport is a free, voluntary pastime. It is what it is. 
 

I look forward to the day it isn’t, but I certainly don’t expect one mildly wealthy family from Wigan to subsidise it until that’s the case - certainly if I’m not prepared to. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Did you look at the description of the role?

Seriously, the list of what's expected is massive.

As I said up thread, do all that and do it right, and you would have no time for an actual job.

Then nobody will. That’s how the world works. There is zero income from the womens’ game. Come on - this is not the explorative scenario you think it is

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Did you look at the description of the role?

Seriously, the list of what's expected is massive.

As I said up thread, do all that and do it right, and you would have no time for an actual job.

Job descriptions are like that, they cover everything. It's obvious this is not a full time role, it's akin to the sort of duties many do at a community club.

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nonsense. This is just a load of sanctimonious twaddle. Nobody is running the women’s game for commercial gain, and seeking to exploit amateur players and officials. The entire sport is a free, voluntary pastime. It is what it is. 
 

I look forward to the day it isn’t, but I certainly don’t expect one mildly wealthy family from Wigan to subsidise it until that’s the case - certainly if I’m not prepared to. 

You pay for tickets to watch womens rugby league games, professional clubs seem to be advertising professional roles. That is not "free".

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Really short sighted.

Is that a no ? 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, RBKnight said:

It's almost as if you have never encountered the women's game before........ 

"They should remain as a community club competition for the foreseeable future" - err, the Women's Super League has been in existence since 2017

There has been an exponential grown in young women playing league in the last couple of years. The real issue is how we provide a proper pathway out of the community clubs towards the top level for these young women (mainly teenagers), which requires coaching, training and strength and conditioning resources. Very few clubs offer this, and until they do, the competition will remain lop-sided.

I've seen little of it , in truth I find it very boring , it doesn't and most likely never will have the physicality that the men's game has , hence my suggestion that they consider a modified version initially to increase skill levels rather than focus on physical size as we've seen in the men's game , which in itself could see more girls/women taking up the sport , in Tommy's reference to the NRLW , they initially started with 9 s , and play shortened time compared to the men and have extra substitutes 

It's not like football , we are talking about the physically hardest team sport in the world 

Yes I know there's been a ' Super League ' of amateur players for a few years , and I've read of the movement of players from various teams for various reasons , not always good for a burgeoning sport , and I can see two or three just grabbing the best talent and us ending up with a lopsided boring competition 

We are still at a point where we could start with a blank sheet on the women's game , and do whatever needs to be done for the best 

 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Honestly I think we should take note of the NRLW. It went with just 4 teams in that elite professional division initially, I believe that is now being expanded to 8. 

Some clubs won't be able to invest the required amount, which is fair enough if they can't, but they shouldn't be in the top tier (as should be the case in every elite league in the sport).

And started with 9 s , shortened games and extra subs 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, RBKnight said:

To be fair, on the field, Wigan are a competitive team once they can get their best players on the field. They have always looked well-coached (especially defensively) to my untutored eye. Their problem is their lack of depth, which meant for three-quarters of last season they looked very poor with five or six players out.

Huddersfield had a very young team out last year will some potential, despite getting stuffed every week. I'm not sure, retrospectively, that stepping up to the top tier last season instead of Warrington did them any favours.

Run before we can walk 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Did you look at the description of the role?

Seriously, the list of what's expected is massive.

As I said up thread, do all that and do it right, and you would have no time for an actual job.

A lot who spend all day every day on here could , and with all the various experts on everything we have on here it'd be a piece of ###### for some 

[RBKnight]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I've seen little of it , in truth I find it very boring

 

But you're then making proposals on how the competiton should be structured ? Reducing it down to a community clubs comp, with smaller pitches, changing the rules

TBH, it's a bit like having a Union troll discussing the RLWC......

[GUBRATS]

59 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You pay for tickets to watch womens rugby league games, professional clubs seem to be advertising professional roles. That is not "free".

There doing well then , because if I want to watch the much more highly paid Man UTD Ladies at the LSV free tickets are usually available every game 

Edited November 13, 2022 by GUBRATS

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

But you're then making proposals on how the competiton should be structured ? Reducing it down to a community clubs comp, with smaller pitches, changing the rules

TBH, it's a bit like having a Union troll discussing the RLWC......

It's my opinion we aren't at SL level right now ,if we are fine , pay them to play full time like the footy girls get 

I've seen situations where adults have been playing against essentially children , is that right IYO? 

Ten years of serious work and investment at community level to give us the numbers to produce a genuine competition , shortened numbers and adapted rules could bring in more who can then move on to the more serious stuff as they progress 

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

But you're then making proposals on how the competiton should be structured ? Reducing it down to a community clubs comp, with smaller pitches, changing the rules

TBH, it's a bit like having a Union troll discussing the RLWC......

Is it true your club nicked a load of players from another club by offering them ' expenses ' ? 

 

[Davo5]

30 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I've seen little of it , in truth I find it very boring , it doesn't and most likely never will have the physicality that the men's game has , hence my suggestion that they consider a modified version initially to increase skill levels rather than focus on physical size as we've seen in the men's game , which in itself could see more girls/women taking up the sport , in Tommy's reference to the NRLW , they initially started with 9 s , and play shortened time compared to the men and have extra substitutes 

It's not like football , we are talking about the physically hardest team sport in the world 

Yes I know there's been a ' Super League ' of amateur players for a few years , and I've read of the movement of players from various teams for various reasons , not always good for a burgeoning sport , and I can see two or three just grabbing the best talent and us ending up with a lopsided boring competition 

We are still at a point where we could start with a blank sheet on the women's game , and do whatever needs to be done for the best 

 

So you want to drastically change the fabric of a sport you know virtually nothing about,what could possibly go wrong

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

So you want to drastically change the fabric of a sport you know virtually nothing about,what could possibly go wrong

As I said , even the Aussies realise it's different , playing 70 minutes with double the number of subs 

 

[RBKnight]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Is it true your club nicked a load of players from another club by offering them ' expenses ' ? 

 

Actually, it started with York recruiting the ex-Castleford coach as Director of Women's Rugby, and offering a full coaching set-up, their own physio and strength and conditioning team, and a more serious training regime. Players travel costs are covered. That cost York money - it's proved a superb investment, unlocking funding from Sport England for our superb training facility, increasing interest and participation in our Foundation's programme for girls and young women. It's inspired the setting up two new age-range teams in one of our community clubs, and brought fresh supporters and sponsors into the club.

Surprisingly enough, women players want to play for clubs where they can improve and are taken seriously.

But it bores you and you don't watch it .....

[EggFace]

I actually see pro Football(Soccer) to become a male/female sport I( heck NBA would be next)n the future but not the contact games.

[Barley Mow]

5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

It always amuses me when you see some comments on these types of threads. A lot of current Rugby League fans don't realise how close to the Reverend Frank Marshall they are. 

I don't know about others you'd categorise as 'these types of threads', but as far as this one is concerned, I don't think your comment is fair here:

Nobody is suggesting that women's RL shouldn't be played or that there should be a ban on being paid for playing or coaching it. Some just give such pay less priority than other expenditure.

Some on here support Wigan prioritising paying someone to carry out this role ahead of other expenditure they currently have, others believe the existing priorities are still more important.

If the role is too large for someone to do as a volunteer, then they will struggle to fill the position and may have to either pay someone, split the roll into a number of separate volunteer positions or reduce their ambition for the women's team.

There is no Rev Frank Marshall here, just some people who would rather Wigan's women's team was better funded at the expense of the men's team or youth setup or community outreach projects or maintenance of Robin Park and some people who would continue as Wigan propose.

I'm sure we would all be happy if clubs' income was sufficient to cover extra paid rolls on top of existing expenditure.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

14 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

You pay for tickets to watch womens rugby league games, professional clubs seem to be advertising professional roles. That is not "free".

I've paid for tickets at the odd Community Game match too. They have team managers, of different types for sure but basically the same tasks are getting done. They don't get paid.

That's the level womens' League is at right now, but I'm confident it won't stay there. If some teams can afford to subsidise extra paid roles to support the women's team development in the meantime then that's laudable and to be celebrated, but I won't be rushing to judge those who can't. Almost every club loses money, so owners have to make a call with how much they can afford. As we grow the game, hopefully community grants, sponsorship and other income will enable more paid roles.  

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I've paid for tickets at the odd Community Game match too. They have team managers, of different types for sure but basically the same tasks are getting done. They don't get paid.

That's the level womens' League is at right now, but I'm confident it won't stay there. If some teams can afford to subsidise extra paid roles to support the women's team development in the meantime then that's laudable and to be celebrated, but I won't be rushing to judge those who can't. Almost every club loses money, so owners have to make a call with how much they can afford. As we grow the game, hopefully community grants, sponsorship and other income will enable more paid roles.  

Community clubs aren't multi million pound businesses

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Community clubs aren't multi million pound businesses

If Wigan made a profit, I'd be on the same page. They don't. So this is whole discussion is about whether or not the Leneghan family should put their hands in their own pockets for more wages. If they did I say "that's brilliant, what a great pair of lads", but I'm not throwing shade at them if they don't - Ian L is hardly sitting on Richard Branson levels of cash. 

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

If Wigan made a profit, I'd be on the same page. They don't. So this is whole discussion is about whether or not the Leneghan family should put their hands in their own pockets for more wages. If they did I say "that's brilliant, what a great pair of lads", but I'm not throwing shade at them if they don't - Ian L is hardly sitting on Richard Branson levels of cash. 

Na... its how much money they can pay on players salaries after the infrastructure of the club is sorted.   Part of the future I guess will be having Women's teams, and that will be linked to funding - this shouldn't then be diverted to the mens first team

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Community clubs aren't multi million pound businesses

That lose money