Women's National Pyramid

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

I don't really get the double headers.  Two for the price of one for the spectator but just extra costs for the clubs.  If the women's game is to be commercially successful and women are to get some wages, they need to be aiming to have their own stand-alone games, taking their own gate money and with their own sponsorships.  All that might come to pass one day but we seem a long way off from that at the moment.

There are arguments on both sides with exposure being the main one for double headers.. (costs for the club putting the game on are lower than 2 stand along events too) but then, as you say, they dont get their own stand alone support or growth. 

I dont think anyone can tell you which is the best way to go but my gut would say stand alone. The womens football prefer stand alone but the womens cricket seem to prefer with double headers in the Hundred. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, RP London said:

There are arguments on both sides with exposure being the main one for double headers.. (costs for the club putting the game on are lower than 2 stand along events too) but then, as you say, they dont get their own stand alone support or growth. 

I dont think anyone can tell you which is the best way to go but my gut would say stand alone. The womens football prefer stand alone but the womens cricket seem to prefer with double headers in the Hundred. 

The women's hundred is rapidly becoming the budget women's tournament globally - in part because of the ongoing double-headers (and also pay which remains laughably small for the women given how much they are used in the marketing and promotion).

I believe in the upcoming season there will be three games that both don't clash with a game taking place at another time (and so won't be on the main channel) and take place outside office hours.

I can't ever remember seeing a men's / women's football double header anywhere. I'd be happy to be corrected on that as I'd love to know how it went.

As for what works in RL ... unless there's a really, really good reason, double headers for RL just don't seem to work full stop. We've plenty of evidence now of that being the case.

[Griff]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

There are arguments on both sides with exposure being the main one for double headers.. (costs for the club putting the game on are lower than 2 stand along events too) but then, as you say, they dont get their own stand alone support or growth. 

I dont think anyone can tell you which is the best way to go but my gut would say stand alone. The womens football prefer stand alone but the womens cricket seem to prefer with double headers in the Hundred. 

The problem with double headers would be - who have the paying spectators come to watch ?

There have been comments that women should be paid because they put time and effort into training.  Yes, they do, but so do thousands of amateur players around the country.  Are they going to be paid too ?  They only real measure of whether you should be paid is how much revenue you generate in the long run.

[RP London]

23 minutes ago, Griff said:

The problem with double headers would be - who have the paying spectators come to watch ?

There have been comments that women should be paid because they put time and effort into training.  Yes, they do, but so do thousands of amateur players around the country.  Are they going to be paid too ?  They only real measure of whether you should be paid is how much revenue you generate in the long run.

 

25 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The women's hundred is rapidly becoming the budget women's tournament globally - in part because of the ongoing double-headers (and also pay which remains laughably small for the women given how much they are used in the marketing and promotion).

I believe in the upcoming season there will be three games that both don't clash with a game taking place at another time (and so won't be on the main channel) and take place outside office hours.

I can't ever remember seeing a men's / women's football double header anywhere. I'd be happy to be corrected on that as I'd love to know how it went.

As for what works in RL ... unless there's a really, really good reason, double headers for RL just don't seem to work full stop. We've plenty of evidence now of that being the case.

Totally agree with both of you.. I wouldnt look at them being done as double headers and dont think it is the best way forward. 

 

[Griff]

32 minutes ago, RP London said:

 

Totally agree with both of you.. I wouldnt look at them being done as double headers and dont think it is the best way forward. 

 

Having said all that, 500 folk turned up for a fourth tier play-off game at Sheffield at the back-end of last season.

[Taffy Tiger]

I think this is a big positive . Gives every team a clear pathway to SL if good enough , and I agree that the structure will allow for an expansion of SL in the future , again if enough teams meet the criteria . A very good foundation to take the Women's game forward.

[RP London]

25 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

No final should be a double header. Unless it´s juniors with adults. A women´s CC Final could probably get 8k in its own right and be a tv product in its own right. Same for SL GF. 

absolutely!

I did enjoy seeing the womens final before the mens semi finals but I dont think its the way forward at all and the fact they cannot celebrate properly seems wrong too, let alone the fact its followed by 2 semifinals, not even a final!

 

[Tommygilf]

18 hours ago, Griff said:

Having said all that, 500 folk turned up for a fourth tier play-off game at Sheffield at the back-end of last season.

Indeed, and I'd say a majority of those wouldn't had some of the Women's games not been built into the Mens game matchday for the half season prior. I've said it on the other thread but as a casual I have enjoyed watching the Eagles Women's team as much as the men's. 

Its swings and roundabouts of course, but gaining exposure is commercially important for most womens teams now. For the likes of Leeds, big social media channels and televised fixtures help massively with that. For womens teams further down the pyramid, other strategies will need to be be employed. 

[newbe]

I been told that Hemel Stags are looking to hold training sessions  and a few friendly games this season, before making a decision 2024 season. With a £190,000 spent on refurbishment of changing rooms plus additional changing rooms, plus a new drainage system and relaying the pitch hopefully in September the club are making sure the environment is good for encouraging women an girl's into the sport.

[fighting irish]

6 minutes ago, newbe said:

I been told that Hemel Stags are looking to hold training sessions  and a few friendly games this season, before making a decision 2024 season. With a £190,000 spent on refurbishment of changing rooms plus additional changing rooms, plus a new drainage system and relaying the pitch hopefully in September the club are making sure the environment is good for encouraging women an girl's into the sport.

What a great story. 

[RBKnight]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Indeed, and I'd say a majority of those wouldn't had some of the Women's games not been built into the Mens game matchday for the half season prior. I've said it on the other thread but as a casual I have enjoyed watching the Eagles Women's team as much as the men's. 

Its swings and roundabouts of course, but gaining exposure is commercially important for most womens teams now. For the likes of Leeds, big social media channels and televised fixtures help massively with that. For womens teams further down the pyramid, other strategies will need to be be employed. 

I think this comment is spot-on - at York, the double-headers have been very popular with the players too. We've got as high as a 900-strong paying crowd for a stand-alone fixture, but the extra money through hospitality and sponsorship means that it's commercially more sensible to use the double-header route where we can, given York's commitment to ensuring the Valkyrie play their fixtures at the LNER stadium. (It was disappointing to find Saints hosting York at Thatto Heath last year)

This year, Valkyrie will have have a mixture of stand-alone and double headers at home (as well as playing Warrington as part of the Summer Bash)

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

I think this comment is spot-on - at York, the double-headers have been very popular with the players too. We've got as high as a 900-strong paying crowd for a stand-alone fixture, but the extra money through hospitality and sponsorship means that it's commercially more sensible to use the double-header route where we can, given York's commitment to ensuring the Valkyrie play their fixtures at the LNER stadium. (It was disappointing to find Saints hosting York at Thatto Heath last year)

This year, Valkyrie will have have a mixture of stand-alone and double headers at home (as well as playing Warrington as part of the Summer Bash)

I think it is about finding what is right and best for your club and working with that; and as you highlight with York that doesn't have to be just one way of doing things but a mixture.

I also think it can be self defeating to put two home games up against eachother on a given weekend, so double headers can make a lot of sense in that scenario. For many, going forward it could well guarantee a home game at their ground every weekend of some variety, which is a good thing I think as the sport starts to look at reducing the number of Mens regular season games. 

The clubs that take the Women's game seriously should be rewarded imo.

[RBKnight]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I think it is about finding what is right and best for your club and working with that; and as you highlight with York that doesn't have to be just one way of doing things but a mixture.

I also think it can be self defeating to put two home games up against eachother on a given weekend, so double headers can make a lot of sense in that scenario. For many, going forward it could well guarantee a home game at their ground every weekend of some variety, which is a good thing I think as the sport starts to look at reducing the number of Mens regular season games. 

The clubs that take the Women's game seriously should be rewarded imo.

As well as their own fans (who buy Valkyrie merchandise !) there are a good proportion of York Knights who enjoy watching the Valkyrie play. We've unfortunately got more fixture clashes this year, when the men are playing away when the women are at home, but the club has done it's best to try and minimise these. We're not a big club, and don't want to split the crowd!

[Bedford Roughyed]

On 02/02/2023 at 09:25, newbe said:

I been told that Hemel Stags are looking to hold training sessions  and a few friendly games this season, before making a decision 2024 season. With a £190,000 spent on refurbishment of changing rooms plus additional changing rooms, plus a new drainage system and relaying the pitch hopefully in September the club are making sure the environment is good for encouraging women an girl's into the sport.

I believe there will be an East division running below WSL South, and Id imagine this, for the first season at least, will be semi formal friendlies.  The Tigers are looking to have a second team running in that League.  

[MidlandsJohn]

On 31/01/2023 at 19:39, Gerrumonside ref said:

Would be remiss of me to fail to mention that…Thurrock Thunderbirds are go!

The next step will be producing international quality players...ideally a Tracy who's eligible for Ireland.