Thread on other Championship teams

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

3 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

As we can now add Wakefield to the relevant teams in this thread...interesting to see Michael Carter talking last night about Trinity running with a 22-man squad next season and relying on DR and loans to fill the gaps.

That approach can work as Leigh showed last year but you need insane luck with injuries and everything falling into place.

Interesting that Carter's saying that when he's supposed to be on the verge of 'selling' the club?

[The Phantom Horseman]

19 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Interesting that Carter's saying that when he's supposed to be on the verge of 'selling' the club?

Yes that's what I thought. much has been made of the wealth of the new investor and it sound slike the takeover will be completed in a matter of days, but a skeleton squad of 22 doesn't sound like they are going to be splashing the cash, next year at least.

Then again, there are more IMG points at stake for prudent fiscal management and not showing a loss than for finishing a place or two higher in the final standings, so we can perhaps expect to see more of this kind of thing.

Instead of chants of "we are top of the league, I said we are top of the league" maybe we should be practising things like "we are not in the red, I said we are not in the red." And instead of "we're going to Wembley, we're going to Wembley, you're not", we can expect to hear "we've got primacy of tenure, we've got primacy of tenure, you don't" or (for those clubs who don't have primacy of tenure) "you're nothing special, we lease every week."

Edited September 16, 2023 by The Phantom Horseman

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Just now, The Phantom Horseman said:

Yes that's what I thought. much has been made of the wealth of the new investor and it sound slike the takeover will be completed in a matter of days, but a skeleton squad of 22 doesn't sound like they are going to be splashing the cash, next year at least.

Then again, there are more IMG points at stake for prudent fiscal management and not showing a loss than for finishing a place or two higher in the final standings, so we can perhaps expect to see more of this kind of thing.

Instead of chants of "we are top of the league, I said we are top of the league" maybe we should be practising things like "we are not in the red, I said we are not in the red." And instead of "we're going to Wembley, we're going to Wembley, you're not", we can expect to hear "we've got primacy of tenure, we've got primcay of tenure, you don't" or (for those clubs who don't have primacy of tenure) "you're nothing special, we lease every week."

The takeover has been going through in the next week or two for getting on for 6 months now.....

[sentoffagain2]

40 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

The takeover has been going through in the next week or two for getting on for 6 months now.....

   You can see why it has dragged on.Different if the club is in SL or The Championship.At least now they know the value of Wakey as a Championship club with no or little chance of a return to SL in the next 3 years unless they decide to make it a 14 team competition.

[eltel]

big ? is where is longy going to go now

[The Phantom Horseman]

30 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

At least now they know the value of Wakey as a Championship club with no or little chance of a return to SL in the next 3 years unless they decide to make it a 14 team competition.

That's a bold shout. How thoroughly have you been through the IMG scoring system to come up with that assessment? You might be right, but I think it's entirely possible they will score higher than us, for instance.

[sentoffagain2]

10 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

That's a bold shout. How thoroughly have you been through the IMG scoring system to come up with that assessment? You might be right, but I think it's entirely possible they will score higher than us, for instance.

     It would be farcical to not let a promoted team have at least 3 seasons to establish themselves.That was the idea of stopping the promotion/relegation yo yo affect .Only way they could put Wakey up instead of Fev is if we mismanage our finances.If promoted i am confident we will get 3 seasons unless we finish bottom with only a handful of wins in the first two seasons.Even then if the gates are more than Wakeys we should be ok.Thats why 2025 is the year to get better SL ready players in.If promoted next year is a free hit save a bit of cash instead of throwing it at player other teams don't want.

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 hour ago, sentoffagain2 said:

     It would be farcical to not let a promoted team have at least 3 seasons to establish themselves.That was the idea of stopping the promotion/relegation yo yo affect .Only way they could put Wakey up instead of Fev is if we mismanage our finances.If promoted i am confident we will get 3 seasons unless we finish bottom with only a handful of wins in the first two seasons.Even then if the gates are more than Wakeys we should be ok.Thats why 2025 is the year to get better SL ready players in.If promoted next year is a free hit save a bit of cash instead of throwing it at player other teams don't want.

This doesn't bear much relation to how the IMG points-scoring system actually works though does it?

Edited September 16, 2023 by The Phantom Horseman

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 hour ago, sentoffagain2 said:

     It would be farcical to not let a promoted team have at least 3 seasons to establish themselves.

Maybe, but that's just an opinion. Nothing to do with the IMG points system.

1 hour ago, sentoffagain2 said:

.Only way they could put Wakey up instead of Fev is if we mismanage our finances.

No - the only way they could put Wakey in SL instead of Fev if they score more points in the highly-complex IMG scoring system.

1 hour ago, sentoffagain2 said:

    .Even then if the gates are more than Wakeys we should be ok.

It's very unlikely Wakey will average fewer than 3k over 2022/23/24, and there's no way we will average over 7.5k over the same time period, so it's unlikely we will score more points than Wakefield in that criteria.

[sentoffagain2]

   Pointless arguing you think you know it all.If you think Fev if promoted will be kicked out after 2 seasons you need to have your head examined.

[The Phantom Horseman]

35 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Pointless arguing you think you know it all.If you think Fev if promoted will be kicked out after 2 seasons you need to have your head examined.

If I've come across as a bit blunt, I apologise. But no need to get personal. It's a forum, you're free to disagree with me, tell me which parts of the IMG points scoring system I have got wrong.

You seem to be making bold predictions based on what you think should happen without, seemingly, having read/understood the new rules.

If I say something on here that someone doesn't agree with, anyone is free to challenge me, and then I'm free to challenge them back, that's how forums work.

Edited September 16, 2023 by The Phantom Horseman

[haskey]

Agreed

[sentoffagain2]

7 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

If I've come across a sa bit blunt, I apologise. But no need to get personal. It's a forum, you're free to disagree with me, tell me which parts of the IMG points scoring system I have got wrong.

You seem to be making bold predictions based on what you think should happen without, seemingly, having read/understood the new rules.

If I say something on here that someone doesn't agree with, anyone is free to challenge me, and then I'm free to challenge them back, that's how forums work.

 I agree you are entitled to state the facts but no promotion or relegation was brought in to give SL teams stability over more than one season.Does it state a time frame for a new club to reach that stability.It is common sense that a club in either division will have to prove their worth over a period of time.Not just one or two seasons.Even Toulouse and Toronto had to go through the divisions to enter the top flight.

[The Phantom Horseman]

23 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

 I agree you are entitled to state the facts but no promotion or relegation was brought in to give SL teams stability over more than one season.Does it state a time frame for a new club to reach that stability.It is common sense that a club in either division will have to prove their worth over a period of time.Not just one or two seasons.Even Toulouse and Toronto had to go through the divisions to enter the top flight.

So if Fev get promoted but then at the end of 2024 have a lower IMG score than, say Toulouse or Wakefield or Bradford, are you suggesting that they will not replace us? 

Because I haven't seen that suggested anywhere, and I've read the published IMG documents many times.

[sentoffagain2]

Just now, The Phantom Horseman said:

So if Fev get promoted but then at the end of 2024 have a lower IMG score than, say Toulouse or Wakefield or Bradford, are you suggesting that they will not replace us? 

Because I haven't seen that suggested anywhere, and I've read the published IMG documents many times.

   Yes it won't work on a season to season but over a period of time.Who knows what length.They make thing up as they go along.Even if a new team with a brand new ground and better players than all but the top 2 SL teams applied they would have to prove themselves on the field not just be fast tracked into SL.Can you imagine the outcry from other clubs trying to better themselves if that was allowed.

[lingaro]

3 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

That's a bold shout. How thoroughly have you been through the IMG scoring system to come up with that assessment? You might be right, but I think it's entirely possible they will score higher than us, for instance.

Extra points for the number of charity shops? 

[The Grinder]

24 minutes ago, lingaro said:

Extra points for the number of charity shops? 

Have you seen the number of charity shops in Wakey?

[lingaro]

54 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Have you seen the number of charity shops in Wakey? 

Really? I haven't noticed

[The Phantom Horseman]

2 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Yes it won't work on a season to season but over a period of time.Who knows what length.They make thing up as they go along.

They've released an extremely detailed document mapping out exactly how each point, or on some cases, 0.1 point, will be earned, and everyone who has studied the document in detail knows how it will work. The trouble is not many people have done that.

You haven't read the document but appear to have decided yourself how it will work. 

To be fair there is fairly widespread ignorance about how the scoring will work - I think a lot of fans might be shocked when they see which teams come out of it well when the "provisional" scores are released. 

[sentoffagain2]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

They've released an extremely detailed document mapping out exactly how each point, or on some cases, 0.1 point, will be earned, and everyone who has studied the document in detail knows how it will work. The trouble is not many people have done that.

You haven't read the document but appear to have decided yourself how it will work. 

To be fair there is fairly widespread ignorance about how the scoring will work - I think a lot of fans might be shocked when they see which teams come out of it well when the "provisional" scores are released. 

       I will let my opinion rest and we will see who is right over the course of time.

[gittinsfan]

29 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

They've released an extremely detailed document mapping out exactly how each point, or on some cases, 0.1 point, will be earned, and everyone who has studied the document in detail knows how it will work. The trouble is not many people have done that.

You haven't read the document but appear to have decided yourself how it will work. 

To be fair there is fairly widespread ignorance about how the scoring will work - I think a lot of fans might be shocked when they see which teams come out of it well when the "provisional" scores are released. 

And I suppose that will be when it all kicks off on the main forum.  Can't wait.

[bigbaldnmad]

If we go up and finish bottom, we will not stay up under IMG.

For me, we will need at least 10th, minimum.

They would rather have teams like Bradford, in the $hith0le that is Odslum, rather than Fev. Which is how I read the IMG scoring.

 

[gazza77]

34 minutes ago, bigbaldnmad said:

If we go up and finish bottom, we will not stay up under IMG.

For me, we will need at least 10th, minimum.

They would rather have teams like Bradford, in the $hith0le that is Odslum, rather than Fev. Which is how I read the IMG scoring.

 

We need to finish 11th, assuming we go up, unless for example Wigan, Saints or Leeds are 12th.

[eltel]

everyone is going on about IMG well judging by the frequent mess the way rugby league has been ruined by those in charge IMG will also fall by the wayside within 3 years then its back to the usual continued downfall of what was once a great sport only spoiled by a few greedy clubs and those running the RFL.

[The Grinder]

12 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

We need to finish 11th, assuming we go up, unless for example Wigan, Saints or Leeds are 12th.

I do wish people would read/understand the IMG scoring system, though unlikely on so many levels, even if Fev win promotion to SL this year and finish top of SL in 2024 we can still be demoted out of SL in 2025 under the IMG grading system.

Under the IMG criteria of “performance” over the three years 2022, 2023 and 2024 we have managed 14th (2022) or 15th (depending on if the playoffs count), 13th (2023) assuming we win the GF and if we finish 11th in SL in 2024 11th an average placing of 13th/14th still probably scoring less points than Wakey & Toulouse. And that is before you look at the other criteria. Certainly no guarantee of a SL place in 2025.