England v Tonga series

[Havenlad80]

9 minutes ago, crashmon said:

The only way the RFL will risk a london test would be if AUS toured.  Otherwise its M62 all the way

New Zealand too.

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, crashmon said:

The only way the RFL will risk a london test would be if AUS toured.  Otherwise its M62 all the way

Thing is, it is very obviously not a risk.

[Havenlad80]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Thing is, it is very obviously not a risk.

To be fair other than Australia and New Zealand I’m not certain that the likes of Tonga and Samoa would sell in London.

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, Havenlad80 said:

To be fair other than Australia and New Zealand I’m not certain that the likes of Tonga and Samoa would sell in London.

41,000 watched England v Samoa in London last year.

[Havenlad80]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

41,000 watched England v Samoa in London last year.

In a World Cup semi-final yes.

not sure how a non World Cup tie would sell against a pacific nation in London.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Havenlad80 said:

In a World Cup semi-final yes.

not sure how a non World Cup tie would sell against a pacific nation in London.

I'll go out on no limb at all and say: better than any of the three that are being played on top of each other in an area that has already had hundreds of opportunities to watch top level rugby league this season and will have hundreds more next season.

[ATLANTISMAN]

St Helens has been chosen because of the connection (Good luck with that) 

Huddersfield will be a morgue 

Leeds fine

 

Its ridiculous to choose small venues where the local loyalty is mainly to the club  and not the game as a whole

[Chris22]

Our crowds for internationals in London are always the strongest, so ideally, we would have a test there.

But it's not that simple. The cost of playing the matches in the North are far cheaper. We would probably need a smaller London venue for this series, likely a stadium we haven't used before.

The RFL lost £1m last year. It cannot risk larger spending commitments in the hope of a return.

You can argue whether that position arises due to our own mismanagement but that's the reality.

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'll go out on no limb at all and say: better than any of the three that are being played on top of each other in an area that has already had hundreds of opportunities to watch top level rugby league this season and will have hundreds more next season.

I think this is right - I don;t believe London is the banker that some is - if anything we have to work harder, but the rewards can be richer. 

But, in reality, if your goal is c15k per match, then it's hardly that much of a risk to go to London!

It's really disappointing that they have chosen to play two games in West Yorkshire - I think that sends strong signals about the level of our ambition. It also suggests that we have learnt little from the World Cup where we over-saturated certain areas.

[gingerjon]

24 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Our crowds for internationals in London are always the strongest, so ideally, we would have a test there.

But it's not that simple. The cost of playing the matches in the North are far cheaper. We would probably need a smaller London venue for this series, likely a stadium we haven't used before.

The RFL lost £1m last year. It cannot risk larger spending commitments in the hope of a return.

You can argue whether that position arises due to our own mismanagement but that's the reality.

We don't know the costs though. We can guess and you're probably right that the north will be a fair bit cheaper. But, essentially, London is a risk free venture. You'll get 20,000 sales pretty easily and more if you work harder. That's not based on finger in the air, that's based on decades of previous experience - previous experience which the goldfish memory of rugby league seems to want to forget.

[Havenlad80]

41 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'll go out on no limb at all and say: better than any of the three that are being played on top of each other in an area that has already had hundreds of opportunities to watch top level rugby league this season and will have hundreds more next season.

And I’d probably agree with you but would it be cost effective?

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We don't know the costs though. We can guess and you're probably right that the north will be a fair bit cheaper. But, essentially, London is a risk free venture. You'll get 20,000 sales pretty easily and more if you work harder. That's not based on finger in the air, that's based on decades of previous experience - previous experience which the goldfish memory of rugby league seems to want to forget.

It really is disappointing that with IMG's influence we have pretty much put on the same kind of Test series (with the exception of it being Tonga, but that was forced on us).

This was a perfect chance to present a new start for England in the new RLCom era.

I expect we got a good deal with a hotel in West Yorkshire and it was cheaper to put them up there rather than get hotels in London.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Havenlad80 said:

In a World Cup semi-final yes.

not sure how a non World Cup tie would sell against a pacific nation in London.

To speak plainly, it wouldn't sell.

Tonga's a tiny, poor, insignificant country the public almost certainly knows nothing about, unless they follow RU.  They'd probably take the idea of a competitive series between England and such an insignificant little country as confirmation of the negative stereotype that RL is a small regional sport with limited appeal. 

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

To speak plainly, it wouldn't sell.

Tonga's a tiny, poor, insignificant country the public almost certainly knows nothing about, unless they follow RU.  They'd probably take the idea of a competitive series between England and such an insignificant little country as confirmation of the negative stereotype that RL is a small regional sport with limited appeal. 

That is in intentionally negative outlook.

Rugby fans in London are aware of Tonga as a Rugby nation. And you really should be able to sell 15-20k England tickets no matter who they are playing. 

We really should be able to get 20k.

[Spidey]

13 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

To speak plainly, it wouldn't sell.

Tonga's a tiny, poor, insignificant country the public almost certainly knows nothing about, unless they follow RU.  They'd probably take the idea of a competitive series between England and such an insignificant little country as confirmation of the negative stereotype that RL is a small regional sport with limited appeal. 

Would England v USA be more useful?

[Click]

13 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

To speak plainly, it wouldn't sell.

Tonga's a tiny, poor, insignificant country the public almost certainly knows nothing about, unless they follow RU.  They'd probably take the idea of a competitive series between England and such an insignificant little country as confirmation of the negative stereotype that RL is a small regional sport with limited appeal. 

Absolutely rubbish. People aren't stupid, they know who Tonga are. 

Every England game in London has sold. People understand that Tonga are a good team in Rugby League.

Judging on what has been reported so far for the 3 venues they have chosen, you will not get a crowd bigger than you would have gotten in London.

People in London want high class sport. They have come out in numbers numerous times for International RL, but we only get rewarded with 1 game in how many years? 

International RL is a joke, and the RFL are a joke for going "safe" with these venues, selling more RL to people that don't seem to be all that interested in it.

[The Masked Poster]

People don't think of Tonga as a small, poor nation, even if that were true. 

They're more likely to think of it as some exotic location in the vein of Hawaii etc etc. It depends on how you present it. 

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, Click said:

Absolutely rubbish. People aren't stupid, they know who Tonga are. 

Every England game in London has sold. People understand that Tonga are a good team in Rugby League.

Judging on what has been reported so far for the 3 venues they have chosen, you will not get a crowd bigger than you would have gotten in London.

People in London want high class sport. They have come out in numbers numerous times for International RL, but we only get rewarded with 1 game in how many years? 

International RL is a joke, and the RFL are a joke for going "safe" with these venues, selling more RL to people that don't seem to be all that interested in it.

equally there are many non hearltands, and heartlands supporters who would travel to london for this while having a weekend down there.. I know I would, but instead I have to go to Huddersfield and then straight back home!

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

equally there are many non hearltands, and heartlands supporters who would travel to london for this while having a weekend down there.. I know I would, but instead I have to go to Huddersfield and then straight back home!

You could stop in Barnsley for a night out on the way back? 

[Big Picture]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That is in intentionally negative outlook.

Rugby fans in London are aware of Tonga as a Rugby nation. And you really should be able to sell 15-20k England tickets no matter who they are playing. 

We really should be able to get 20k.

Exactly, rugby fans are the only Brits aware of Tonga.  We know that the game has made little impact wuth RU fans in the past, and the public at large aren't likely to be favourably  impressed by a series against a country they've likely never even heard of.

 

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Would England v USA be more useful?

If the US had a genuine, competitive team, absolutely it would be.

[Big Picture]

7 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

People don't think of Tonga as a small, poor nation, even if that were true. 

They're more likely to think of it as some exotic location in the vein of Hawaii etc etc. It depends on how you present it. 

FYI it most certainly is true.

Exotic location yes, likely home to a worthy competitor for an England team, no.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

If the US had a genuine, competitive team, absolutely it would be.

Ah so you have to be good and RL and be a big country. What’s the criteria for big? Land mass, population? What does genuine mean?

[Click]

3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Exactly, rugby fans are the only Brits aware of Tonga.  We know that the game has made little impact wuth RU fans in the past, and the public at large aren't likely to be favourably  impressed by a series against a country they've likely never even heard of.

 

If the US had a genuine, competitive team, absolutely it would be.

I am not sure what geography is like in Canada, but people in the UK are very much aware of Tonga as a nation. 

[Click]

8 minutes ago, RP London said:

equally there are many non hearltands, and heartlands supporters who would travel to london for this while having a weekend down there.. I know I would, but instead I have to go to Huddersfield and then straight back home!

Indeed - I mentioned I believe it was on the previous page or so on here that when I attended England Samoa for the WC Semi, there were a lot of England RU shirts on show - I can almost guarantee that they didn't come down the North to watch the game.

There is a huge amount of people in London that want to watch the elite players in sport play, doesn't matter if it is RU, RL or Football, etc.

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You could stop in Barnsley for a night out on the way back? 

I'm not taking my son out in Barnsley... he too young to know how bad the world and adult life can actually be