What now for the French national team?

[Madrileño]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

It will help Keighley, Bramley, Leigh and everyone else in our pyramid. 

 

Right...

Bramley. 

"Pyramid".

Any chance you could explain what this means? To most people, there is no pyramid. It is one of the weaknesses of the sport in the UK. A team can finish bottom of League 1 10 years running and never get relegated. A pyramid structure, by its very nature would prevent this. We have no pyramid.

Where do Bramley sit in your pyramid? Are they even members of the RFL?

 

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Right...

Bramley. 

"Pyramid".

Any chance you could explain what this means? To most people, there is no pyramid. It is one of the weaknesses of the sport in the UK. A team can finish bottom of League 1 10 years running and never get relegated. A pyramid structure, by its very nature would prevent this. We have no pyramid.

Where do Bramley sit in your pyramid? Are they even members of the RFL?

 

Not having a pyramid doesn’t seem to adversely affect the NRL.

[Madrileño]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

Not having a pyramid doesn’t seem to adversely affect the NRL.

True.

It's probably a discussion for another thread though? 

All sorts of cultural issues involved, as well as the fact that their top league is ring fenced, whereas over here it is not. The problem in UK League is you have decisions being made for the pro game by clubs that are no better than amateur.

[Guest]

During the WC - Atlantisman posted, from memory, that is wife worked in some form of RL related marketing and that the lack of geographical diversity actively turned away large sponsors.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Not having a pyramid doesn’t seem to adversely affect the NRL.

They have decent comps under the NRL.

The SL pyramid is a misnomer really, as there is little jeopardy for 10 of the 12 clubs and the P&R is largely yo yo.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, steve oates said:

It's a noble statement, but what is the "mechanism" here.

Having recently watched Bramley play I am intrigued to know??

International sport is the best growth engine for minority sports. That’s been demonstrated countless times, in numerous sports - including our own. 

It can be used to grow awareness, interest and then later attendance and participation. People in Bramley who may not be active rugby league fans are far more likely to be activated into interest by seeing an international variant of the game than they are by 2nd or 3rd tier football. That increased interest leads to a greater ability to engage an audience locally, over time. 

There’s your mechanism. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

52 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Right...

Bramley. 

"Pyramid".

Any chance you could explain what this means? To most people, there is no pyramid. It is one of the weaknesses of the sport in the UK. A team can finish bottom of League 1 10 years running and never get relegated. A pyramid structure, by its very nature would prevent this. We have no pyramid.

Where do Bramley sit in your pyramid? Are they even members of the RFL?

 

Your use of the word “we” is revealing

The English system is neither Spanish, nor of New Zealand origin. 

[Madrileño]

45 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Your use of the word “we” is revealing

The English system is neither Spanish, nor of New Zealand origin. 

It's not English either. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Egyptian maybe?

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

30 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

It's not English either. 

Well that's a new one

Does it identify as Icelandic? I'm intrigued 

(hint: I'm not really)

[Gomersall]

https://www.ffr13.fr/warrington-preparer-les-jours-dapres/
 

A few days after Warrington's double defeat, Luc LACOSTE, President of the French Rugby XIII Federation, analyzes the reasons and proposes radical solutions to imagine a more blue future in the short term.

President, what do you remember from the two games that took place last weekend in Warrington?

Luc Lacoste: The severe results recorded by our French teams last weekend are finally only a reflection of a cyclical reality specific to these 2 matches. Indeed, it must be understood that this weekend is a special case that cannot be representative. These two matches are the confirmation of the lessons already made following the World Cup and the Club France meeting on December 19 led by Trent Robinson.

How do you explain the defeat of the XIII Féminin?

L. L.: Regarding our women, the very large defeat is finally quite simple to understand, while the last games against England were encouraging. There were 12 girls missing who participated in the last World Cup, including: 5 who have definitively stopped their international career and 7 who are to date undoubtedly potential Blues who have not been able to join the selection for various legitimate reasons (Injury, professional constraints, and one in Australia at the Roosters club). It was therefore a team, orphaned, in full reconstruction.
So yes, there is a story to necessarily rebuild where natural leaders will have to emerge in the coming months.
It is also necessary for each of the girls to understand the need to intensify efforts to be at the rendezvous of 2025. Finally, we identified the need to distribute players into more clubs and why not, sometimes and for the short term, abroad.

In Warrington President, there was also a heavy defeat for our men's team...

L. L.: The defeat is indeed too broad. I believe that explaining this failure is a factual observation that is quite simple to understand. Our squad was amputated of its best Super League players. Unfortunately, we had 15 selectable players absent, including: 10 injured players, and 5 not available such as Garcia, Bousquet, Navarrette, Séguier and Belmas.
At the finish, the team was mainly composed of 8 players playing in Championship and Elite 1. We all know how deep the gap between the very high level of our usual practices is. The English, for their part, played with 100% of players in the Super League, 80% of whom were indisputable starters, in many clubs.

On this point President, is it far from being the case for our French team?

L. L.: Indeed, we must note that the National Team is too dependent on the Catalan Dragons and the Olympic Toulouse, who do a remarkable job internally. But the dependence on these two clubs cannot make it possible to easily line up the best team for the reasons that everyone will understand or appreciate.

Faced with all these constraints, what solutions do you plan to put in place for our future generations?

L. L. For the medium and short term, work is underway. Since the World Cup in England and in anticipation of the next one, the Federation has put in place a sports plan to improve its performance and results. This of course extends over several years (23/24/25), with in particular: the implementation of an individual follow-up of players with high potential from the U17, the U19 and the creation of a transversality up to the French Teams. Let us also mention the arrival of Rémi Casty and Adam Innes in the staff in charge of this follow-up within Club France, as desired by the Rugby Director.
We are intensifying the search for new players able to be eligible for the French Teams in 2025 (so playing in France since 2020). We pay particular attention to players from New Caledonia for example who play for some in Australia, New Zealand...
Finally, we intend to facilitate departures abroad (Super League or even Southern Hemisphere) of players, to perfect their sporting level.

To accompany all your proposals, what operational framework will you deploy?

L. L.: For more than a month now, in support of the staff, a monitoring cell, led by the "Technical and Training" commission under the leadership of Robert Cousty, has been created. This body will use all the means known to date and at our disposal to evaluate performance (data, videos, etc...) to bring out in a "scientific" way the current standards of the high level. Some are possible others more complex to achieve. For this, it is up to our structure to reinvent the French specificity. All this must allow the French Teams to regain their joy, their desire to play in accordance with the ambitions displayed. The French teams are and remain a priority.
The entire system, from our pro clubs to our Elite clubs and far beyond, must mobilize and make the necessary efforts to ensure that our Club France maintains its indispensable unifying status.

 

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Who do we play mid seas then ?

Covid is well behind sporting competition,how is the new 5 yr plan going ?

We’ve been trying to prove that to the Aussie public for 50yrs & still struggle to attract big crowds over there,maybe that’s why we’ve only faced them outside of World Cups twice over the last decade,if you think playing France annually has any bearing on their attitude towards us your delusional.

I already said who we play mid season Dav, read back.

[steve oates]

On 04/05/2023 at 14:01, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

International sport is the best growth engine for minority sports. That’s been demonstrated countless times, in numerous sports - including our own. 

It can be used to grow awareness, interest and then later attendance and participation. People in Bramley who may not be active rugby league fans are far more likely to be activated into interest by seeing an international variant of the game than they are by 2nd or 3rd tier football. That increased interest leads to a greater ability to engage an audience locally, over time. 

There’s your mechanism. 

Oh come on.......I have no doubt most people in Bramley know all about Rugby League already. However they are most likely to watch and participate due to the presence of Leeds Rhinos who have been a top club over the years.  Star players and trophy winners.......

We had the "International Varient" with the boring one sided stuff against France at the weekend, you really trying to tell me that's what pulls the kids and their dads in? I'd guess the Hull Derby and the local rivalry would have far far more of an impact on Hull people than any international, as the games are about bragging rights etc. 

Maybe the Australians are the ultimate draw for Newcomers but didn't they play once in coventry when the local kids were all invited as flagbearers?  As was reported, after the match the dads and their lads went back to their local union clubhouses, and there was a very minimal RL local legacy from that game if any.

The one thing that does get people interested in my experience is a world cup, I can get non RL friends to go to that, but once it's over they go back to their soccer......  

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

4 hours ago, steve oates said:

Oh come on.......I have no doubt most people in Bramley know all about Rugby League already. However they are most likely to watch and participate due to the presence of Leeds Rhinos who have been a top club over the years.  Star players and trophy winners.......

We had the "International Varient" with the boring one sided stuff against France at the weekend, you really trying to tell me that's what pulls the kids and their dads in? I'd guess the Hull Derby and the local rivalry would have far far more of an impact on Hull people than any international, as the games are about bragging rights etc. 

Maybe the Australians are the ultimate draw for Newcomers but didn't they play once in coventry when the local kids were all invited as flagbearers?  As was reported, after the match the dads and their lads went back to their local union clubhouses, and there was a very minimal RL local legacy from that game if any.

The one thing that does get people interested in my experience is a world cup, I can get non RL friends to go to that, but once it's over they go back to their soccer......  

To be honest, how many people like rugby league in Bramley is the least of our worries, only 20,000 people live there 

International sport engages new fans. Even you can admit that. 

[Angelic Cynic]

14 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

To be honest, how many people like rugby league in Bramley is the least of our worries, only 20,000 people live there 

International sport engages new fans. Even you can admit that. 

There has just been an international rugby league world cup,held in a country which houses far more than 20k.How many new fans have been engaged?

After a fortnight of free to air television coverage of Wimbledon there are more people carrying tennis rackets to parks and clubs than turn up to engage with rugby league.

The sport should end the attempt to emulate the other code.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

3 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

There has just been an international rugby league world cup,held in a country which houses far more than 20k.How many new fans have been engaged?

After a fortnight of free to air television coverage of Wimbledon there are more people carrying tennis rackets to parks and clubs than turn up to engage with rugby league.

The sport should end the attempt to emulate the other code.

So you're in the "give up on international rugby league" box too? 

There's nothing about emulating the other code in anything I've said. All marginal sports grow their audience through the international aspect. What do you think engages people with athletics, rowing, cycling etc.? Why do you think girls' football participation is going through the roof? 

Surrender to irrelevance if you want to, I choose not to. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

If one wants to grow rugby league the only way to do it is INTERNATIONALS played outside of the heartlands its not Einstein for gods sake.

It doesn't matter if the Super League clubs remain the same + Championship League 1 (With the odd new club joining every few years like Cornwall) the heartbeat of the club game will remain the north and all the traditional clubs should be supported 100%.

We now have 8 test playing nations outside of the north matches in London/Norwich/Brighton/Plymouth/Bristol/Birmingham 

London every year the rest on a 2/3 year rotation.

Get PE to back it 

 

[steve oates]

On 05/05/2023 at 22:03, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

To be honest, how many people like rugby league in Bramley is the least of our worries, only 20,000 people live there 

International sport engages new fans. Even you can admit that. 

Cut the nonsense jibes please.

Decades ago my dad had the RL cup final on TV and I watched it with him and was hooked. A mates big brother went to games and us kids we were allowed to go as long as we went with him. Another mate was good at sports at school especially rugby league and he started to go to games as well, and I then went with him and another mate, who didn’t want to miss out..

 We swapped football and rugby programmes and one lad we met watched soccer on TV but fancied going to a RL game with us and he got hooked. And so it went on…………

People ask me about my RL interest and I offer to take them to a game, but they tend to decline because they are soccer minded. One soccer mate certainly wanted to go to see the Aussies which we did , but he had no interest al all in the club game, so he didn’t “convert” So you have boxed yourself off here and didn’t give it any thought before posting……..

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

44 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Cut the nonsense jibes please.

Decades ago my dad had the RL cup final on TV and I watched it with him and was hooked. A mates big brother went to games and us kids we were allowed to go as long as we went with him. Another mate was good at sports at school especially rugby league and he started to go to games as well, and I then went with him and another mate, who didn’t want to miss out..

 We swapped football and rugby programmes and one lad we met watched soccer on TV but fancied going to a RL game with us and he got hooked. And so it went on…………

People ask me about my RL interest and I offer to take them to a game, but they tend to decline because they are soccer minded. One soccer mate certainly wanted to go to see the Aussies which we did , but he had no interest al all in the club game, so he didn’t “convert” So you have boxed yourself off here and didn’t give it any thought before posting……..

Literally no idea what you’re on about Steve. I said “even you” because you said yourself that it did, whilst also telling me that it wouldn’t. You’ve just done it again. 

I don’t expect a one-sided game against France to attract many people. But a closer one would, which is why I wished we took some more responsibility over the long term for helping make that happen.

Rome wasn’t built in the day… ironically neither was the Italian Rugby Union side, it took about 20 years of consistent effort and look where they are now? That’s what we need to do with France. 

[bazza_merged]

for some perspective

In 2000, Australia beat NZ 52-0 in a mid-season test in April (and then 40-12 later that year in the world cup final)

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/anzac-test-match-2000/game-1/australia-vs-new-zealand.html

NZ also won the RLWC in 2008

[Harry Stottle]

21 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Rome wasn’t built in the day… ironically neither was the Italian Rugby Union side, it took about 20 years of consistent effort and look where they are now? That’s what we need to do with France. 

Aye but Rugby League Football has been played in France for 90 years Bronco, there comes a time in life when you have to realise that "flogging a dead horse" is a pointless excersize.

What has to be done in France for them to improve on the international stage is an internal problem in that they have far to few people playing the sport to garner a number of player's of sufficient quality that can make an impact. 

This is not a job for the British game to address - we have much the same problem in keeping up with the SH - it is the French Federation that has to formulate a solution to making Rugby League more popular and building up the domestic player pool, sitting back and hoping that the RFL will allow them more clubs into our top division that they will furnish with antipodeans is not the answer, there are a number of things in IMG's stratergies I disagree with but limiting the number of French clubs is one that I concur with.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Aye but Rugby League Football has been played in France for 90 years Bronco, there comes a time in life when you have to realise that "flogging a dead horse" is a pointless excersize.

 

Don't you mean "Setting the cow free?" "

"Libérer la vache"

(Use your best French accent)

[Angelic Cynic]

On 06/05/2023 at 15:22, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

So you're in the "give up on international rugby league" box too? 

There's nothing about emulating the other code in anything I've said. All marginal sports grow their audience through the international aspect. What do you think engages people with athletics, rowing, cycling etc.? Why do you think girls' football participation is going through the roof? 

Surrender to irrelevance if you want to, I choose not to. 

The first rugby league world cup was held way back in 1954,in France,a place some consider,and write,to be an expansion area.

That is almost as long as heartlands elite clubs have had to develop.

France,of course,are not blessed by broadcast money like the elite clubs.

Athletics,rowing and cycling does not have any attachment,as such,to towns or cities,so the individuals involved adopt a nationality. 

John Lennon once composed a song involving the lyric '....imagine there's no countries....'.Sold a few.

More than turn out for elite rugby league,anyway.

The noise from that place in Liverpool where Elstone took a few rugby league games doesn't suggest a lot of national pride.

Bob Dylan,an American so everyone should listen,once wrote,' The times they are a changing.'

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Aye but Rugby League Football has been played in France for 90 years Bronco, there comes a time in life when you have to realise that "flogging a dead horse" is a pointless excersize.

What has to be done in France for them to improve on the international stage is an internal problem in that they have far to few people playing the sport to garner a number of player's of sufficient quality that can make an impact. 

This is not a job for the British game to address - we have much the same problem in keeping up with the SH - it is the French Federation that has to formulate a solution to making Rugby League more popular and building up the domestic player pool, sitting back and hoping that the RFL will allow them more clubs into our top division that they will furnish with antipodeans is not the answer, there are a number of things in IMG's stratergies I disagree with but limiting the number of French clubs is one that I concur with.

You misunderstand me. We should support the development of the French international side because it is in *our* interests to do so, to create a regular, meaningful international competition with a near neighbour, which will be good for the development of the English game.

So your “not my problem” mindset isn’t that relevant here. By the way, they’ve played rugby union in Italy for longer than that. It’s just that 20+ years ago the IRU decided to take its development seriously. For the benefit of European and World rugby, not for the benefit of the Italians themselves. 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

The first rugby league world cup was held way back in 1954,in France,a place some consider,and write,to be an expansion area.

That is almost as long as heartlands elite clubs have had to develop.

France,of course,are not blessed by broadcast money like the elite clubs.

Athletics,rowing and cycling does not have any attachment,as such,to towns or cities,so the individuals involved adopt a nationality. 

John Lennon once composed a song involving the lyric '....imagine there's no countries....'.Sold a few.

More than turn out for elite rugby league,anyway.

The noise from that place in Liverpool where Elstone took a few rugby league games doesn't suggest a lot of national pride.

Bob Dylan,an American so everyone should listen,once wrote,' The times they are a changing.'

Isn’t it a bit early for hallucinogens?