Wigan showing intent for next season

[The Future is League]

The Sam Waters signing is the big surprise for me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/66018024

[EastLondonMike]

Haven't seen too much of Walters, but what i have seen he looks to have a whole bunch of potential.

Wigan still need to add a top line centre and prop IMO. I notice Brian Kelly at the Titans is off contract at the end of the season. I know Brenko Lee has been mentioned as a possible Wigan target, but think Kelly would be a better option if available/willing to come over.

Not really sure on props if Thompson is not happening.

[Wire quin]

Chan from the Dragons

[daz39]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

The Sam Waters signing is the big surprise for me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/66018024

Is he Rogers lad?

[Waynebennettswinger]

I think they’ve strengthened really well there.
 

The Leeming signing is interesting, on the transfer thread there are a few nagative comments, I’ve always liked him and (from the matches I saw) he was often Leeds’ best IMHO. 
 

I don’t think Brenko Lee would be a great addition but plenty have come unheralded from the NRL and settled well. Are King and Wardle not there next year? I remember one being on loan but is there not a view to making that permanent? 

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

I think they’ve strengthened really well there.
 

The Leeming signing is interesting, on the transfer thread there are a few nagative comments, I’ve always liked him and (from the matches I saw) he was often Leeds’ best IMHO. 
 

I don’t think Brenko Lee would be a great addition but plenty have come unheralded from the NRL and settled well. Are King and Wardle not there next year? I remember one being on loan but is there not a view to making that permanent? 

I've always thought of Leeming as a little overated and his distribution isn't great but he has to offer more than Powell and give a little more threat. Leeming and O'Neil should be a decent improvement on Powell and O'Neil. Obviously this is hoping Powell makes way.

[wiganermike]

8 minutes ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

I think they’ve strengthened really well there.
 

The Leeming signing is interesting, on the transfer thread there are a few nagative comments, I’ve always liked him and (from the matches I saw) he was often Leeds’ best IMHO. 
 

I don’t think Brenko Lee would be a great addition but plenty have come unheralded from the NRL and settled well. Are King and Wardle not there next year? I remember one being on loan but is there not a view to making that permanent? 

King is on loan and the move had initially been expected to become permanent. However following the recent changes to the marquee player rules the expectation seems to be that Warrington will now want to take him back rather than offload him.

I would rather we didn't sign Brenko Lee either, he has only managed around 90 games over 10 years due to injury issues and we have been burned enough times with signing players with poor injury records/current injuries. I would rather we didn't risk another one. Particularly not when that player would use an overseas quota spot.

[WN83]

9 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

King is on loan and the move had initially been expected to become permanent. However following the recent changes to the marquee player rules the expectation seems to be that Warrington will now want to take him back rather than offload him.

I would rather we didn't sign Brenko Lee either, he has only managed around 90 games over 10 years due to injury issues and we have been burned enough times with signing players with poor injury records/current injuries. I would rather we didn't risk another one. Particularly not when that player would use an overseas quota spot.

Keighran would be a good pick up because we’d then have the opportunity to play him at centre or at stand off and you get a goal kicker in to the bargain. I’d pass on Brenko Lee and look elsewhere.

I could be way off but I still think there might be a chance Toby King stays. It was always going to be a game of cat and mouse, with Wigan knowing Wire would like his wage off the cap and Wire knowing he’s done well at Wigan and they’d like to keep him. Even with the new marquee rule, I could see Wire liking those spots open for other players. 

[EagleEyePie]

I'm pleased with the signing of Leeming as he's a different sort of hooker to what we've been used to at Wigan. I've always felt that it's best to have a bit of variation in attack and when we've been using Powell as an 80 minute hooker it's left us very predictable and unable to speed up our play or offer anything different. There was a brief period where 80 minute hookers seemed desirable but these days it seems most teams have settled on two hookers, with one also being used at 13 from time to time. I think Wigan have been better at 9 this year because we've been using two players there and the signing of Leeming suggests that will continue. O'Neill was always a 9/13 hybrid in the academy and seems an ideal player to have alongside Leeming to ensure both get plenty of time on the field.

I'm happy with the signings of Walters and Chan. Two very promising front rowers who should add some real competition among the props. It's likely we'll lose Singleton and Mago but I hope we keep hold of Ellis as he's made a big impact this year (and I don't mean on Ratchford's nose).

I do think we need experience in the front row though. The title winning teams have pretty much always had some wise old heads down the middle and that's where we've struggled in recent years. When we've had experience they've been players who've struggled with injury due to age or found it hard to maintain form (O'Loughlin, Flower, Clubb). If we retain Cooper there's a risk he falls into that category and there's not much point having experienced middles if they aren't playing. If the club are satisfied he can come back strong then I'm happy with that, otherwise I think we need to bring in someone with that experience to support the young players.

What we don't want to do is end up in a position where we keep signing players who could potentially be top forwards but never actually sign players that are already quality. It can leave us constantly in a position of being a promising team and not a champion team.

With King likely to stay at Wire we definitely need a centre but I agree with those who have said that Brenko Lee isn't the answer. Given the difficulties players can face moving to the other side of the world there is a big enough obstacle already without having to factor in a player whose injury record is pretty poor.

When we were expected to sign King permanently I was a bit concerned about how that would affect our chances of keeping hold of Zach Eckersley. I'd expect King would be looking for a long contract of 3 or 4 years and with Wardle on  a long contract too it doesn't leave much room for accommodating a promising young centre. I think ideally we'd be looking for a good, experienced centre on a short term deal or a versatile player with NRL ambition who might see Super League as a springboard for a return down under. That way we're not tied up with long contracts or expensive players on the bench and there's room for a young player to get into the team without needing to throw them straight in at the deep end.

Then I think all the club need to do is make a decision on our back row. Isa has had some decent games this year but he's getting on a bit and there's always a greater risk of injuries with older players. We've already got Farrell who may seem evergreen but we can't rely on him forever. Two older back rowers and then Junior Nsemba as back-up doesn't feel like the right balance. I'd say either it's time to move Isa on and bring in another consistent first team back row if we can afford it, or maybe take a punt on someone who might break through with Isa still there as back up.

The club look to be making some good signings so far, I just think it's essential we support the promising young players with experience and leadership.

[WN83]

11 hours ago, EagleEyePie said:

I'm pleased with the signing of Leeming as he's a different sort of hooker to what we've been used to at Wigan. I've always felt that it's best to have a bit of variation in attack and when we've been using Powell as an 80 minute hooker it's left us very predictable and unable to speed up our play or offer anything different. There was a brief period where 80 minute hookers seemed desirable but these days it seems most teams have settled on two hookers, with one also being used at 13 from time to time. I think Wigan have been better at 9 this year because we've been using two players there and the signing of Leeming suggests that will continue. O'Neill was always a 9/13 hybrid in the academy and seems an ideal player to have alongside Leeming to ensure both get plenty of time on the field.

I'm happy with the signings of Walters and Chan. Two very promising front rowers who should add some real competition among the props. It's likely we'll lose Singleton and Mago but I hope we keep hold of Ellis as he's made a big impact this year (and I don't mean on Ratchford's nose).

I do think we need experience in the front row though. The title winning teams have pretty much always had some wise old heads down the middle and that's where we've struggled in recent years. When we've had experience they've been players who've struggled with injury due to age or found it hard to maintain form (O'Loughlin, Flower, Clubb). If we retain Cooper there's a risk he falls into that category and there's not much point having experienced middles if they aren't playing. If the club are satisfied he can come back strong then I'm happy with that, otherwise I think we need to bring in someone with that experience to support the young players.

What we don't want to do is end up in a position where we keep signing players who could potentially be top forwards but never actually sign players that are already quality. It can leave us constantly in a position of being a promising team and not a champion team.

With King likely to stay at Wire we definitely need a centre but I agree with those who have said that Brenko Lee isn't the answer. Given the difficulties players can face moving to the other side of the world there is a big enough obstacle already without having to factor in a player whose injury record is pretty poor.

When we were expected to sign King permanently I was a bit concerned about how that would affect our chances of keeping hold of Zach Eckersley. I'd expect King would be looking for a long contract of 3 or 4 years and with Wardle on  a long contract too it doesn't leave much room for accommodating a promising young centre. I think ideally we'd be looking for a good, experienced centre on a short term deal or a versatile player with NRL ambition who might see Super League as a springboard for a return down under. That way we're not tied up with long contracts or expensive players on the bench and there's room for a young player to get into the team without needing to throw them straight in at the deep end.

Then I think all the club need to do is make a decision on our back row. Isa has had some decent games this year but he's getting on a bit and there's always a greater risk of injuries with older players. We've already got Farrell who may seem evergreen but we can't rely on him forever. Two older back rowers and then Junior Nsemba as back-up doesn't feel like the right balance. I'd say either it's time to move Isa on and bring in another consistent first team back row if we can afford it, or maybe take a punt on someone who might break through with Isa still there as back up.

The club look to be making some good signings so far, I just think it's essential we support the promising young players with experience and leadership.

The point on Eckersley is a good one and it's the reason why I wouldn't have an issue extending Thornley by a year and running with just him and Eckersley (alongside Wardle) if we cannot find a suitable King replacement (or keep King). We could spend any excess money solving the other issue you mention and that is now needing at least one more experienced head in the front row. I think in an ideal world we would sign an experienced prop and second rower now to add to these young forwards we've signed but you can't do everything I suppose. One thing I wouldn't mind us doing is having a look at Eckersley this season, to see how close he is to the required standard. He's got bags of potential and looked impressive in pre season and he has looked good at Widnes when I've seen him. 

[JohnM]

Succession planning.     Don't make the same  mistake Wigan made over Sean O'Loughlin by playing  a season or so past his best.   Farrell wont last forever. and I believe the signs are already there. Who would replace him in the long term?

[Davo5]

38 minutes ago, WN83 said:

The point on Eckersley is a good one and it's the reason why I wouldn't have an issue extending Thornley by a year and running with just him and Eckersley (alongside Wardle) if we cannot find a suitable King replacement (or keep King). We could spend any excess money solving the other issue you mention and that is now needing at least one more experienced head in the front row. I think in an ideal world we would sign an experienced prop and second rower now to add to these young forwards we've signed but you can't do everything I suppose. One thing I wouldn't mind us doing is having a look at Eckersley this season, to see how close he is to the required standard. He's got bags of potential and looked impressive in pre season and he has looked good at Widnes when I've seen him. 

Thornley has spent more time on the treatment table than the pitch,another one we should be jettisoning.

[WN83]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Thornley has spent more time on the treatment table than the pitch,another one we should be jettisoning.

Ideally we sign a new centre (or keep King), move Eckersley up a place and let Thornley go. If they struggle to find a suitable player though, I'd rather have Thornley in the squad than nobody. English centres of a decent quality are extremely thin on the ground, so it's going to be a case of using a quota spot. I think we will sign a centre anyway and in that case Thornley can go for me because Eckersley needs chances. Interesting to note that Peet has spoken about Keighran today and confirmed they have made him an offer. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by WN83

[Cw25]

Signing a 9 is the big one. I will make a big statement here. Wigan will win the lot next year. 

[overtheborder]

9 hours ago, JohnM said:

Succession planning.     Don't make the same  mistake Wigan made over Sean O'Loughlin by playing  a season or so past his best.   Farrell wont last forever. and I believe the signs are already there. Who would replace him in the long term?

Don't agree over the signs already being there with Farrell but absolutely agree with getting succession planning in place. I'm really happy with those signings to be fair, looks like some real improvements to the squad at first glance.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, overtheborder said:

Don't agree over the signs already being there with Farrell but absolutely agree with getting succession planning in place. I'm really happy with those signings to be fair, looks like some real improvements to the squad at first glance.

Farrell played better last week than the previous week, in my view, and has shown a slight lack of consistency, albeit he is still a top class player.in terms of a "vice captain" as it were, who is being readied to become captain in a few years time? 

[WN83]

14 hours ago, JohnM said:

Farrell played better last week than the previous week, in my view, and has shown a slight lack of consistency, albeit he is still a top class player.in terms of a "vice captain" as it were, who is being readied to become captain in a few years time? 

He's been well off his best this season in the main but what gives me confidence it's nothing major, is the fact his best performances have come in the must win cup games against Leeds and Wire and on Good Friday against Saints. The freakish thing about Farrell is that his 'off performances' still see him banging out good numbers in terms of metres and tackles. I think the captaincy may be weighing a bit heavy on him but it's tough to say if that's the reason with any great confidence. There seems to be a bit of a changing of the guard in terms of leaders, with Powell now out of the side, Leuluai retired and Isa insured and I think we'll need to see guys like Harry Smith and Morgan Smithies take on more responsibility. That could help take some weight off Faz going forward.