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WC 10 Teams, structure going bad

Mathius Hellwege
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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

https://www.intrl.sport/media/p00hzpfr/rlwc-2028-30-itt.pdf
 

5 weeks , 18 games

 

means, the preferred solution of this forum is out with 2 5teamgroups and then semi-finals....because that would be 23 games

OK, let's cut out the idle chit chat and get to the key question.

Is the TotalRL General Rugby League Forum going to put together a consortium and bid to host the 2030 World Cup.  I recon we could pull it off.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dave T
Dave T

The biggest problem here is that we are now seeing the outcome of the NRL fully controlling the IRL agenda. And it ain't pretty, no matter how much people try to look on the positive side of things. I

crashmon
crashmon

If they are worried about cost then why not just have 3 groups of 3 and put Aus directly in the SF,  This way those Aussie players would still be free for NRL pre-season friendlies while the group gam

crashmon
crashmon

I was in the sell out Crowd in Bristol for the game between the might of the Cook Islands vs the USA.  PLace was heaving..... So something must have happened to get the people of Bristol (those die in

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dunbar said:

OK, let's cut out the idle chit chat and get to the key question.

Is the TotalRL General Rugby League Forum going to put together a consortium and bid to host the 2030 World Cup.  I recon we could pull it off.

I worry we could be too organised and have too high a set of aspirations for rugby league.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This isn't a 4n tournament. 

It isn't.

But I have to admit, as an England fan, I would rather be in a group with New Zealand, Australia and Tonga/Samoa and take my chances of a semi and then a final over what we got last time which was two games against Samoa and one each against France, Greece and PNG.

Especially if I am travelling over there - I want to see England play the big nations.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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crashmon

crashmon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

It isn't.

But I have to admit, as an England fan, I would rather be in a group with New Zealand, Austrlian and Tonga/Samoa and take my chances of a semi and then a final over what we got last time which was two games against Samoa and one each against France and Greece.

Espicially if I am travelling over there - I want to see England play the big nations.

You missed the QF vs PNG but I get your general point

But if we are aiming to grow the interest in the game in the UK for Neutrals, I would say you would get more interest in a SF if England was playing Aus etc than if we missed out and finished bottom.  Considering the games are played in the SH in the next world cup, Eng not making the SF's would be a disaster, as nobody apart from the converted few would bother to watch the SF or Fina;

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Spidey

Spidey

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It isn't.

But I have to admit, as an England fan, I would rather be in a group with New Zealand, Australia and Tonga/Samoa and take my chances of a semi and then a final over what we got last time which was two games against Samoa and one each against France and Greece.

Especially if I am travelling over there - I want to see England play the big nations.

2008 wasn’t pleasant watching England

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
Just now, crashmon said:

You missed the QF vs PNG but I get your general point

Yes, apologies.

Just now, crashmon said:

But if we are aiming to grow the interest in the game in the UK for Neutrals, I would say you would get more interest in a SF if England was playing Aus etc than if we missed out and finished bottom.  Considering the games are played in the SH in the next world cup, Eng not making the SF's would be a disaster, as nobody apart from the converted few would bother to watch the SF or Fina;

I have to be perfectly honest.  I don't think a 10 team format World Cup down under will have any impact at all on the neutral sports fan in the UK.

If we won it then maybe... but if we won it then it is the semi and final than need winning and that is the case whatever the group games look like.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

2008 wasn’t pleasant watching England

Because of the format?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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crashmon

crashmon

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I have to be perfectly honest.  I don't think a 10 team format World Cup down under will have any impact at all on the neutral sports fan in the UK.

 

Neutrals would only tune in for games which have the Home nations.  So yes if only England are playing from the UK, and no Wales or Ireland, then I don't think there would be much difference if the WC was 10 teams, 12 teams or 6 teams if the only UK representitives would be England.

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It isn't.

But I have to admit, as an England fan, I would rather be in a group with New Zealand, Australia and Tonga/Samoa and take my chances of a semi and then a final over what we got last time which was two games against Samoa and one each against France and Greece.

Especially if I am travelling over there - I want to see England play the big nations.

I went in 2008, the group game vs NZ followed by the semi against the same team the week later was underwhelming to say the least. 

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted

OK, I formally give up trying to find some things that we may be able to look forward to with the next World Cup... and the one after.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

OK, I formally give up trying to find some things that we may be able to look forward to with the next World Cup... and the one after.

There is always plenty to look forward to, but you probably shouldnt be surprised that people disagree with you that a Super Group is more enjoyable than a 'regular' group for England. 

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crashmon

crashmon

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

OK, I formally give up trying to find some things that we may be able to look forward to with the next World Cup... and the one after.

The only thing IMHO which will spark Neutral peoples interest of RL in the UK would be a world cup win. For me that has to be the aim.   So I would happly embrace any group approach in the next WC which gave England the best chance of winning it. So I'd have Aus, NZ, Tonga, and Samoa batter the hell out of each other, and hope England don't slip vs Fiji and PNG (but knowing England they would even blow that)

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted (edited)

Lets not forget the format in 2008 was poorly received and we had 10 teams to simply get the World Cup started again. That was quickly increased to 14 teams, as the flaws were obvious and the administrators sought growth, which we then had two pretty successful and profitable World Cups with in 2013 and 2017. There is no doubt in my mind that RLWC2021 would have been very profitable too with 16 if it wasn't for Covid. There should be no need to cut costs, especially when the vast majority of teams and players are from the southern hemisphere for the next World Cup anyway, and those mentioning it are falling for a myth that the current administrators want you to believe.

To think going back to 10 teams and a failed format is the answer when we have more strong teams than ever before is just crazy. 10 is just such a poor number to play with, for all the reasons already stated, too. It should either be 2 groups of 5 or really we may as well just drop to 8 teams and have 2 groups of 4. I'd say then have an emerging nations of 2 groups of 4 too but we know the Aussies wouldn't care less about that.

Edited by Damien
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HawkMan

HawkMan

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, crashmon said:

The only thing IMHO which will spark Neutral peoples interest of RL in the UK would be a world cup win. For me that has to be the aim.   

With Australia being so good, I can't see England winning it unless they become a heritage team full of fair dinkum Aussies !

Two questions; is that even possible? Are there NRL players of Aussie birth but who could qualify for England.  Would England fans be OK with that?

Edited by HawkMan
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crashmon

crashmon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, HawkMan said:

With Australia being so good, I can't see England winning it unless they become a heritage team full of fair dinkum Aussies !

Two questions; is that even possible? Are there NRL players of Aussie birth but who could qualify for England.  Would England fans be OK with that?

The scary thing is that might end up being the future, if we can't grow the game out of the M62

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crashmon

crashmon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BladeHearts said:

How about an 8 Team tournament comprising credible RL playing countries

1. Great Britain
2. Australia
3. New Zealand
4. Samoa
5. Tonga
6. Fiji
7. Papua New Guinea
8. France

For it to be GB it has to feature players from Scotland and Wales, or you won't get buy in as they will say its just a a rebranded England

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BladeHearts

BladeHearts

Posted
Posted
Just now, crashmon said:

For it to be GB it has to feature players from Scotland and Wales, or you won't get buy in as they will say its just a a rebranded England

I'm Scottish and would far rather support a GB side with zero Scots than a Scotland team with 13 Australians.

Whilst politically believing in Scottish Independence, I have no problem supporting England at Rugby League and Cricket.

Any notion of a national Scottish Rugby League side is just farcical and there is barely more of an argument for Wales (and certainly not in terms of being remotely competitive.  

Its just my view but a World Cup of contrived teams honouring their grandparents is not expansion.  

If we can only manage an 8 team tournament so be it, but if that is 8 teams with fans as passionate as PNG and Tonga then its a bloody good 8 team tournament.

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Spidey

Spidey

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Because of the format?

Yes. England got through by scraping a win v PNG (that was played before the opening ceremony) then got stuffed by Australia, put a second string team v NZ with Gleason at standoff. Then played NZ again the week after and got beat again.  It was dour.  I enjoyed Irelands journey much more

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Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, BladeHearts said:

I'm Scottish and would far rather support a GB side with zero Scots than a Scotland team with 13 Australians.

Whilst politically believing in Scottish Independence, I have no problem supporting England at Rugby League and Cricket.

Any notion of a national Scottish Rugby League side is just farcical and there is barely more of an argument for Wales (and certainly not in terms of being remotely competitive.  

Its just my view but a World Cup of contrived teams honouring their grandparents is not expansion.  

If we can only manage an 8 team tournament so be it, but if that is 8 teams with fans as passionate as PNG and Tonga then its a bloody good 8 team tournament.

Well don't have Scotland then. That doesn't mean we need to scrap England.

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