Expansion

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Rovers13 said:

Do you blame them though? I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been done but I can see it from champ club owners perspective too. 

Do I blame people for whinging about a club being parachuted in and demanding that clubs "earn it on the pitch" then the very same people complain when those clubs do just that? 

Yeah I think that's stupid frankly.

From a championship club owner's perspective, the sport needs to offer both realism and opportunity. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Quite correctly 

Tbh I see both sides, but would also suggest having all full time teams in separate leagues to part time clubs as a given really.

[Rovers13]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Do I blame people for whinging about a club being parachuted in and demanding that clubs "earn it on the pitch" then the very same people complain when those clubs do just that? 

Yeah I think that's stupid frankly.

From a championship club owner's perspective, the sport needs to offer both realism and opportunity. 

We agree on that but if I was an owner of fev Batley dews Halifax etc with IMG I’d walk now tbh. 

[sam4731]

Honestly at this point I think there is greater chance for peace in the middle east than there is the sport successfully creating meaningful, lasting expansion.

[GeordieSaint]

29 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

For expansion to succeed it needs lots of money, long term commitment and strategic preferential treatment.

Last bit. Are you old to remember the complaining aimed at the Broncos in the late 90s when they were successful? Same detail with Catalan. You are absolutely right but it won’t happen due to attitudes of many, including in the sport’s leadership. 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Do I blame people for whinging about a club being parachuted in and demanding that clubs "earn it on the pitch" then the very same people complain when those clubs do just that? 

Yeah I think that's stupid frankly.

From a championship club owner's perspective, the sport needs to offer both realism and opportunity. 

How ? 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbh I see both sides, but would also suggest having all full time teams in separate leagues to part time clubs as a given really.

This to me is obvious. A decent full time team should walk L1 as Toronto did. It just seems like a complete waste dropping a well funded team in at that level and doesn't help anyone.

I think the pragmatic solution is a 2 tier entry. If you are going for the part-time Cornwall type route then starting at the bottom is the way to go. If not then the Championship.

Obviously with everything going on at the moment this will all change now anyway.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

We agree on that but if I was an owner of fev Batley dews Halifax etc with IMG I’d walk now tbh. 

Maybe they will. Rumours that Fev really are stuffed financially for next year, especially if certain matters in February result in their current owner being compromised.

Ultimately though these are regional league sized clubs operating in a competition trying to be far broader in scope. Its transformed around them slowly too which hasn't helped.

[Rovers13]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Maybe they will. Rumours that Fev really are stuffed financially for next year, especially if certain matters in February result in their current owner being compromised.

Ultimately though these are regional league sized clubs operating in a competition trying to be far broader in scope. Its transformed around them slowly too which hasn't helped.

No idea where you get we’re in a bad financial position tbh? 

[Rovers13]

We have 2 millionaires bank rolling club one wealthier than Campbell. 

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How ? 

Realism about the actual amount of money required to be a full time Super League club, opportunity if you can spend that amount.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Rovers13 said:

No idea where you get we’re in a bad financial position tbh? 

Campbell has already said it is an end of an era in his funding levels.

People talk at these championship meetings!

[JonNgog]

1 hour ago, The Lad said:

Given the recent withdrawal of London and Newcastle is there any hope for expansion?

London Skolars, Gloucestershire, Hemel Stags, Oxford, Midlands Hurricanes, Toronto Wolfpack, Newcastle Thunder, PSG, London Broncos. All failed to deliver, most folding.

Is it time we give up on growing our sport out of the heartlands or is there still a type of expansion out there that will work?.

Many of those tried to run before they could walk, or were basically amateur operations that were doomed from the start. Thunder are the first one that really hurts… they had a lot going for them, and were making steady steps forward on and off the pitch, yet a few poor decisions killed them off. Shows how fragile these clubs are.

[Rovers13]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Campbell has already said it is an end of an era in his funding levels.

People talk at these championship meetings!

Yeah on the pitch nothing about being financially poor he’s gonna focus on IMG not the pitch. 

[Rovers13]

And do you blame him I’d build a 50k team esp if theirs no relegation with merging the leagues. 

[Damien]

I think we need to bring back the Rugby League Conference idea from the Richard Lewis era to provide a league for expansion clubs with professional aspirations but at a cheaper, more amateur level with limits on player payments. Have this replace L1 with the stronger L1 clubs joining the Championship.

If stronger full time Toronto expansion clubs emerge let them join the Championship directly.

[Derwent Parker]

36 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Quite correctly 

did not know that

[Yorks Tim]

2 hours ago, The Lad said:

Given the recent withdrawal of London and Newcastle is there any hope for expansion?

London Skolars, Gloucestershire, Hemel Stags, Oxford, Midlands Hurricanes, Toronto Wolfpack, Newcastle Thunder, PSG, London Broncos. All failed to deliver, most folding.

Is it time we give up on growing our sport out of the heartlands or is there still a type of expansion out there that will work?.

This week Midlands Hurricanes have confirmed they will be playing in the main arena of the Alexander Stadium from 2024.

They have also just appointed a commercial director and women's team development coach. 

Just need to clarify who'll they actually be playing next season in the men's game! 

[paul hicks]

3 hours ago, The Lad said:

Given the recent withdrawal of London and Newcastle is there any hope for expansion?

London Skolars, Gloucestershire, Hemel Stags, Oxford, Midlands Hurricanes, Toronto Wolfpack, Newcastle Thunder, PSG, London Broncos. All failed to deliver, most folding.

Is it time we give up on growing our sport out of the heartlands or is there still a type of expansion out there that will work?.

yes, there is and its nothing to do with into which area.

to have a successful expansion what's needed more than a specific place is a hell of a lot of money to invest over a long time period. reason for the failure of all those teams simple not enough money to invest over a long enough time period.

take 10% of all club's current central/super league payments away from them and put it into a fund for a new expansion team and do it for 10 years while giving the new club the same amount as the other clubs in its division gets to add to that money taken from the other clubs would be a start.

after that look for rich investors not the local butcher or a car salesman sunbed seller done good and show them a club starting to make waves with the limited money they have and that's the way to go. bring in investors who have to deposit a full at least 5-year funding that is none returnable to the investors for 10 years.

any new club not able to find sufficient funds only allowed into the lowest league until they attract better forward funding.

 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbh I see both sides, but would also suggest having all full time teams in separate leagues to part time clubs as a given really.

Hard to enforce.

The RFL shouldn't micro-manage clubs.

[paul hicks]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

It would also require assembling a Superleague quality side from scratch.  Easier said than done - even if money were no object.

you do it with a 3-year plan before you enter which gives you time to sign a squad the year or even more before you start playing . easy enough to sign players two tears in advance and loan them out to keep them playing .

any new club should have to have a minimum 2 year planning stage before they play a game

[paul hicks]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbh I see both sides, but would also suggest having all full time teams in separate leagues to part time clubs as a given really.

was it not leigh who led the charge to scap the old championship  maximum spend on players when they were in the championship a few years back

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

They had to do that because various Champ and L1 fans complained when Catalans etc were "parachuted" into Super League ahead of them

And rightly so, I had a direct contact with the game and found it galling, it was a double stab in the back for owners, share holders, coaches, players and fans of ambitious clubs, not only being parachuted but except from relegation also, what were you doing at the time Tommy?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

We agree on that but if I was an owner of fev Batley dews Halifax etc with IMG I’d walk now tbh. 

I think there will be a period of "let's see how it transpires" then I expect collectively a lot of clubs will reflect on backing IMG's proposals and then the sh-ite will hit the fan. 

[Barley Mow]

11 minutes ago, Griff said:

Hard to enforce.

The RFL shouldn't micro-manage clubs.

I don't necessarily agree with @Tommygilf's suggestion (although he has made me think when suggesting it before), but why do you think it would be hard to enforce?

Surely it would be similar to how we currently have separate competitions for amateur clubs? The existing pro/semi-pro clubs would decide which category they were going to be and we would just have two separate competitions.