The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Gav Wilson]

17 minutes ago, phiggins said:

But still with the RFL to review the process, having had a few clubs challenging or changing their score late in the day, and the results of that review not likely to be known in December.

I'd say if that review results in changes to the scoring, it would be risky to still plough on with it for 2025.

Thats the whole point of testing, no?

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Its an anomaly in the transition year, i bet it won’t happen again.

you are thinking short term

An anomaly to you, quite the opposite to London.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

An anomaly to you, quite the opposite to London.

The club have been positive about it.

And yes it's an anomaly, that's not a pejorative, it just means it's out of the ordinary and unexpected.

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, M j M said:

There's lots of things affecting how the game is performing. League structure and criteria is not top and never should have been top of the list. It's just the lever people looking to make a quick impact have reached for over and over again.

That in its own right has promoted instability, a lack of belief in the sport's future and disengagement from fans who don't know what their teams are playing for.

Do me a favour MjM, you being Leeds (I think), and so are Tommy and Chris set up a meeting with them and talk some sense to them.

[Martyn Sadler]

On 27/10/2023 at 14:52, Chrispmartha said:

But there will still be a cut off point and then clubs/people will be unhappy, if they buckle now they will buckle then. Keeping Traditional P&R will probably mean we won't get to 12 Grade A clubs because those with High B's will likely just be yo yo ing around for a few years.

The decision has been made, stick with it, London get a year in SL to help boost their grades, 2025 comes around we get the best graded teams in SL and crack on with the plan.

What happens if teams 12 and 13 end up with precisely the same grading score?

What would you suggest for a tie breaker?

Given how close the scores are, no one can say that it couldn't happen.

The difference between the two positions would be about £1 million per year.

Lawyers will be licking their lips.

[phiggins]

16 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Thats the whole point of testing, no?

Yes, and if the test fails you don’t plough on regardless. So the question is, has it been tested enough?
Let’s see what the review concludes. I imagine they will go ahead, maybe with some tweaks to the process rather than measures. But can see a case for updating the scoring and having another indicative round. 

[Chrispmartha]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do me a favour MjM, you being Leeds (I think), and so are Tommy and Chris set up a meeting with them and talk some sense to them.

It’s almost as if people can have different opinions even if supporting the same club - weird eh!

Anyway it matters not a jot if you think im talking sense or not, it’s happening.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Chrispmartha

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

What happens if teams 12 and 13 end up with precisely the same grading score?

What would you suggest for a tie breaker?

Given how close the scores are, no one can say that it couldn't happen.

The difference between the two positions would be about £1 million per year.

Lawyers will be licking their lips.

A 14 team SL like it should be in 2025

I don’t know Martyn I didn’t come up with the grading system.

Im not sure how successful Lawyers would be seeing as though the clubs have voted it through and the metrics are quantifiable.

[Tommygilf]

49 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Clubs voted it through six months ago, and have another year to prepare for its first implementation. That's plenty long enough.

And its been coming for a while, since the first of the 2 lower TV contracts came in those in the sport have known there was more than likely going to be some major changes made 

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

To be honest I think once next season starts and the talking punts are actually about the games a lot of it will calm down - until the off season where we'll be going round again.

7 clubs will definitely be going round again, a couple or three will be there or there abouts, two or 3 clubs will have to sweat it out and see what transpires, then without knowing what league they will play in and what funding they will get it will be the same as previous in shopping when the shelves are bare, Leigh changed that anomaly and we all saw what a difference it made.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

They could build a massive estate of 75,000 homes just outside York to increase their catchment? 

I am the CE of Wimpey Homes, please let me know first when those plans are going through please .

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, DemonUK said:

I am not reading through 105 pages so if anyone else has made this observation I apologise.  Because the 'current season' is included in the Performance rating, attendances, utilisation and one of the Finance sections.  Gradings can only be finalised for the teams outside of the playoffs at the end of the regular season.  For the teams in the payoffs, their grading can only be confirmed as they get knocked out of the playoffs.

The scenario that I see is that the teams that are confident of easily making Grade A at the end of 2024 will get the pick of available players earlier s they will have no worries about committing to attaractive player contracts  If you are on of say 5 clubs that may be within say 0.3 points of one another, how wise would it be to commit to SL size contracts when you could suddenly find yourself as the 13th rated club.  They could offer two contracts ie a SL one or a champ one, but how many players will want to commit to a deal like this if it is going to be the middle of October before it is confirmed.

I have brought that up more than once Demon, and not had a straight answer other than it is teething problems and an early anomaly.

PS if this as already been answered I apologise, but I am two hours behind on the thread.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[redjonn]

30 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

What happens if teams 12 and 13 end up with precisely the same grading score?

What would you suggest for a tie breaker?

Given how close the scores are, no one can say that it couldn't happen.

The difference between the two positions would be about £1 million per year.

Lawyers will be licking their lips.

I get your point but that would be simple as one team are finishing in promotion position and the other in the relegation position so the tie break would be normal P/R otherwise its daft.

A bigger issue if the club in 13th have same points as team in say 10th place whilst those in 11th and 12th have higher points.

In my eyes an awful situation would be of two teams having a 0.1 mark difference and that means being denied promotion.

It should if we are having this IMG approach that their is a minimum B grade mark that enable a club eligible for promotion, and if a club achieve that then they replace the other grade B irrespective of points difference.

Edited November 2, 2023 by redjonn

[Griff]

7 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I get your point but that would be simple as one team are finishing in promotion position and the other in the relegation position so the tie break would be normal P/R otherwise its daft.

A bigger issue if the club in 13th have same points as team in say 10th place whilst those in 11th and 12th have higher points.

An even bigger issue is, if London win Superleague next year, they'll probably still be relegated.

You need to get your head around the IMG points being the decider of the teams in Superleague.

The league table is irrelevant.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, glossop saint said:

Which is what didn't happen to Toronto. So again are we asking for new clubs to come in at League 1 level, spend a fortune on players to smash the opposition, keep the crowds and get into SL that way.

In fact that probably is what we are asking. Just using a different vehicle to how we did with Toronto.

If I may, I have already made reference to Leigh ripping up that model of waiting till the season ends before looking at their playing roster they fell flat of it before, as did London, Toulouse and Toronto all finishing bottom in SL - OK Toronto only played 6 games but did not look like ever winning one and couldn't buy any more the owner sought no to pay his bills. The new blueprint is assemble a squad in the Championship with the majority being SL ready player's then adding to them as the season moves on and have a good portion of the final squad in place well before the season ends, moving into SL then is not as daunting as it was before.

[Gav Wilson]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

They could build a massive estate of 75,000 homes just outside York to increase their catchment? 

Planning permission  has just gone through for 300 new houses on the field behind the new stadium, so theres a start!

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The first indications will be the next TV deal, which will hopefully be up on the current one. 

By the second round of licensing, most clubs had made decent strides forward in average attendances too, so there's that as a marker as well.

So in 3 years time, we should start seeing improvements thanks and bookmarked for future reference.

[Martyn Sadler]

41 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

A 14 team SL like it should be in 2025

I don’t know Martyn I didn’t come up with the grading system.

Im not sure how successful Lawyers would be seeing as though the clubs have voted it through and the metrics are quantifiable.

I've asked the question of the RFL, so hopefully they will respond.

The metrics are quantifiable but the point is how accurate they are.

For example, how reliable is financial information from those clubs that don't have audited accounts?

[Martyn Sadler]

24 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I get your point but that would be simple as one team are finishing in promotion position and the other in the relegation position so the tie break would be normal P/R otherwise its daft.

A bigger issue if the club in 13th have same points as team in say 10th place whilst those in 11th and 12th have higher points.

In my eyes an awful situation would be of two teams having a 0.1 mark difference and that means being denied promotion.

It should if we are having this IMG approach that their is a minimum B grade mark that enable a club eligible for promotion, and if a club achieve that then they replace the other grade B irrespective of points difference.

I actually meant teams 12 and 13 on the gradings table.

[Gooleboy]

49 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

What happens if teams 12 and 13 end up with precisely the same grading score?

What would you suggest for a tie breaker?

Given how close the scores are, no one can say that it couldn't happen.

The difference between the two positions would be about £1 million per year.

Lawyers will be licking their lips.

What about a fence painting competition to decide the winner over two legs of course.

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

What about a fence painting competition to decide the winner over two legs of course.

No.

Poll on TRL forum.

[glossop saint]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If I may, I have already made reference to Leigh ripping up that model of waiting till the season ends before looking at their playing roster they fell flat of it before, as did London, Toulouse and Toronto all finishing bottom in SL - OK Toronto only played 6 games but did not look like ever winning one and couldn't buy any more the owner sought no to pay his bills. The new blueprint is assemble a squad in the Championship with the majority being SL ready player's then adding to them as the season moves on and have a good portion of the final squad in place well before the season ends, moving into SL then is not as daunting as it was before.

It surely is daunting. The fact that one club has done it then doesn't make it less daunting. In fact on that basis you don't think Tommy's assertion that crowds need to be big enough for SL before getting there. If one club can do it then why can't everyone else. I've got to admit I didn't expect that answer from you Harry.

[Damien]

51 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

A 14 team SL like it should be in 2025

I don’t know Martyn I didn’t come up with the grading system.

Im not sure how successful Lawyers would be seeing as though the clubs have voted it through and the metrics are quantifiable.

I remember all this talk of lawyers in the past, in particular I remember when Widnes went to court over SL and lost a fortune. The judge ruled there was no issue to be tried because the vast majority of clubs agreed with it and so it obviously represented the best wishes of the game.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Damien

[Harry Stottle]

52 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

What happens if teams 12 and 13 end up with precisely the same grading score?

What would you suggest for a tie breaker?

Given how close the scores are, no one can say that it couldn't happen.

The difference between the two positions would be about £1 million per year.

Lawyers will be licking their lips.

I mentioned the legals becoming involved very early in this thread Martyn, and if we are not to know what IMG's final 'league table' will throw up until the seasons end in 2024, the process because of legal action being taken by any club could take longer to conclude than the beginning of the following season, if the start of the '25 season is compromised it will be at the hands of IMG and RL Commercial no one else for introducing this system, it is apparent they have not thought it through very well, and could you imagine the reaction from Sky if they can't keep to their schedules, they may well say £_%& it.

[Chrispmartha]

24 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I've asked the question of the RFL, so hopefully they will respond.

The metrics are quantifiable but the point is how accurate they are.

For example, how reliable is financial information from those clubs that don't have audited accounts?

Even if they aren't audited they still have to officially file accounts, if they are fiddling them then they will have bigger issues than IMG.