What would your plan for Wales, Ireland and Scotland be?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think Scotland and Ireland are non-starters at that moment. They need some serious investment domestically. 

The governing bodies don't help themselves at all though. They are all too willing to take shortcuts and do little to actually grow the game. There is a major failing to do the hard yards.

They then pat each other on the back every 4 years, when by good fortune they have a squad of heritage players, and pretend they are doing a great job. Rinse and repeat.

[Big Picture]

Good points there @jim_57.  Tonga and Samoa aren't really any different from Ireland and Scotland, their teams aren't true national teams either.

[Damien]

The governing bodies attitude to the recent u16s and u19s matches sum it all up for me. Heritage players getting picked at u16s level is just a complete joke. As is, in the case of Ireland, more training sessions and camps in England than Ireland. As are English coaches that pick English lads because of the amateur team they play for without even seeing them play. Then of course Irish lads that have been attending sessions don't get picked. 

At the first u16s session in Ireland there were loads of very talented players, including lads in the provincial RU setups. Plenty dropped out along the way because the whole thing was a joke. Lads and parents were asking for more sessions and games to develop and play RL in Ireland but to no avail. The RLI couldn't care less and were more interested in organising organising the next session in Rochdale.

[nadera78]

Gareth Kear, Wales RL's former CEO and father of Elliot, was recently very critical of the current Wales staff for not organising any fixtures for the men's team this year, and he's 100% correct. If they think they can go 2 years without playing any games and still have any realistic chance of winning the qualifiers then they're being very silly. And it's a shame, because the only realistic options for developing local rivals for England are Wales and France and one of them is taking themselves out of the running.

Ireland, I don't know too much about their domestic situation but a few years back they wanted to adjust their selection policy only for the English players and staff to throw a strop and the RLI backtracked. 

Scotland is a ridiculous situation tbh. I don't think they've met the Full Members criteria for about 10 years now and everyone just ignores it and allows them to play in competitions ahead of countries that do meet the criteria. We should forget them, in terms of big events, until the SRL can show they've turned things around.

[londonrlfan]

I don't know why Wales are always lumped in with Scotland and Ireland, when there's genuine development there. Ireland and Scotland should step back from internationals for a little while, and focus on development and youth development more importantly. If the likes of Serbia, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Jamaica, Nigeria etc can do youth development, why can't they? For too long they've been rewarded for no development, simply because they're a union nation. Ronan Michael should be the captain and face of Irish RL, but they picked heritage players over him at the WC, which showed how much they care for development. 

Wales should be facing France, Jamaica, England regularly and I'd like to see them go down under outside of a WC and face the likes of Fiji, PNG, Tonga etc. I think they do should do u20s tours of the likes of Serbia, Greece, Czech Republic, Netherlands too. 

[langpark]

2 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Ronan Michael should be the captain and face of Irish RL, but they picked heritage players over him at the WC, which showed how much they care for development. 

This! 

[langpark]

16 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Ireland, I don't know too much about their domestic situation but a few years back they wanted to adjust their selection policy only for the English players and staff to throw a strop and the RLI backtracked. 

They are known for announcing "tough" new quota policies, only to backflip on them right away. Here's an example:

https://www.rugbyleagueplanet.com/2016/09/29/rugby-league-ireland-announces-new-selection-policy-to-ensure-more-domestic-players-in-international-squads/ 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, langpark said:

They are known for announcing "tough" new quota policies, only to backflip on them right away. Here's an example:

https://www.rugbyleagueplanet.com/2016/09/29/rugby-league-ireland-announces-new-selection-policy-to-ensure-more-domestic-players-in-international-squads/ 

Yeah that was 7 years ago now. It's new people running the show.

If they pick heritage players at u16s level then there is no chance now at senior level. All so they can put out tweets saying Ireland won or drew against England community sides. Its pathetic and false.

[Barley Mow]

12 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

...I think they do should do u20s tours of the likes of Serbia, Greece, Czech Republic, Netherlands too. 

Serbia are already above the full Wales team in the IRL rankings and played against France this year. They might feel entitled to turn down a tour from the U20's team from a country ranked below them!

Edited November 5, 2023 by Barley Mow

[londonrlfan]

6 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Serbia are already above the full Wales team in the IRL rankings and played against France this year. They might feel entitled to turn down a tour from the U20's team from a country ranked below them!

I meant at youth level, not the first team. We need more youth internationals in Europe. England, France, Wales, Serbia, Ukraine, Czech Republic should all be playing each other in a U20 and U18 Euros every year. But whenever there's a youth tournament, Scotland, Ireland and Italy are always picked, despite having zero youth development. Picking a bunch of union players and playing one game isn't youth development. 

[londonrlfan]

42 minutes ago, Damien said:

The governing bodies attitude to the recent u16s and u19s matches sum it all up for me. Heritage players getting picked at u16s level is just a complete joke. As is, in the case of Ireland, more training sessions and camps in England than Ireland. As are English coaches that pick English lads because of the amateur team they play for without even seeing them play. Then of course Irish lads that have been attending sessions don't get picked. 

At the first u16s session in Ireland there were loads of very talented players, including lads in the provincial RU setups. Plenty dropped out along the way because the whole thing was a joke. Lads and parents were asking for more sessions and games to develop and play RL in Ireland but to no avail. The RLI couldn't care less and were more interested in organising organising the next session in Rochdale.

That sums it up. There's obviously no interest in developing the sport there, so they need to stop being rewarded. Especially at expense of countries who are genuinely growing the game. 

[17 stone giant]

52 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

So what scraps do Welsh, Irish and Scottish players who aren’t good enough for GB get?

I'm also in favour of playing as GB.

If GB had been playing Tonga this autumn, there could have been a warm up game for Tonga against Wales. Or a game afterwards, whatever is best.

Or they could have played Wales v France as a curtain raiser before one of the tests. Or even before two or three of them if they wanted to make a series out of it. (obviously they'd have had to play the women's match elsewhere).

There's so many options. Have a summer event with some combination of Wales/France/Ireland/Scotland/England/Yorkshire/Lancashire. Currently GB/England don't have many options for matches in the summer, so come up with something.

Wales in particular (but also Scotland with Alan Tait and Fairburn, I think) have contributed a lot to the GB team in the past, so I want to celebrate that history and also try and encourage future Welsh players to play RL and hopefully represent GB. Without a GB team, I just feel that the top talent from Wales and Scotland will always be snaffled up by rugby union (e.g. Regan Grace has gone).

Ireland wouldn't be part of GB for me. If you include them, you have to go down the rugby union Lions route of not having an anthem a flag etc. Otherwise you're showing absolutely no respect to their inclusion.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

So what scraps do Welsh, Irish and Scottish players who aren’t good enough for GB get?

Nothing to stop there being a low-level home nations comp at the standard they have now - i.e. low-profile, played at small venues in front of small crowds - if people want to do that. But we've had various permutations of that for years now, and it's had zero effect on the development of the competitiveness of these nations.

My view is either do it properly or don't bother.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Duplicate post

Edited November 5, 2023 by RugbyLeagueGeek

[londonrlfan]

3 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'm also in favour of playing as GB.

If GB had been playing Tonga this autumn, there could have been a warm up game for Tonga against Wales. Or a game afterwards, whatever is best.

Or they could have played Wales v France as a curtain raiser before one of the tests. Or even before two or three of them if they wanted to make a series out of it. (obviously they'd have had to play the women's match elsewhere).

There's so many options. Have a summer event with some combination of Wales/France/Ireland/Scotland/England/Yorkshire/Lancashire. Currently GB/England don't have many options for matches in the summer, so come up with something.

Wales in particular (but also Scotland with Alan Tait and Fairburn, I think) have contributed a lot to the GB team in the past, so I want to celebrate that history and also try and encourage future Welsh players to play RL and hopefully represent GB. Without a GB team, I just feel that the top talent from Wales and Scotland will always be snaffled up by rugby union (e.g. Regan Grace has gone).

Ireland wouldn't be part of GB for me. If you include them, you have to go down the rugby union Lions route of not having an anthem a flag etc. Otherwise you're showing absolutely no respect to their inclusion.

GB were brought back and Regan Grace wasn't picked. It'll be the exact same team as the current England team, so completely pointless. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Duplicate post

Edited November 5, 2023 by RugbyLeagueGeek

[londonrlfan]

Scotland and Ireland should be looking to get players into the French league, as Serbia have done. Then look to League One and the Championship, before hopefully SL in a decade or so. 

[17 stone giant]

Just now, londonrlfan said:

GB were brought back and Regan Grace wasn't picked. It'll be the exact same team as the current England team, so completely pointless. 

It's not compulsory to pick him or any Welsh player. It's having the option to do so. Plus he's only 26 now and was only 22 when GB last played in 2019, so who knows if he'd ever have been picked had he stayed. He was just an example anyway.

The point is that without a GB team, the best Welsh and Scottish players are potentially going to be tempted by the opportunities in rugby union. Even if they prefer playing league, the chance to run out regularly in front of 60000 at Murrayfield or 75000 in Cardiff, is going to be quite a draw. And if you can't retain the best players, how will you ever get Wales and Scotland to a decent standard anyway?

[Coco]

I have been an advocate for a End of seasons 4 nation international leagues.  All nations are allowed to play.  You have promotion and relegation.  That's where Wales, Scotland and Ireland along with France should play.  It's only 3 games.

League 1 - Australia / England / New Zealand / Samoa.

League 2 - PNG / Tonga / Fiji / France.

League 3 - Wales / Cook Islands / Lebanon / Ireland

League 4 - Scotland / Jamaica / Germany / Holland. 

League 5 - Serbia / Poland/ ? / ? 

It should be end of season tournament for all countries. Fantastic for each nation and the fans.  International games with relevance and importance and growth. 

But as the NRL make all decisions on international rugby league, they made it clear international rugby league is not important.  I don't really have an issue with their decision.  Just follow Super League / NRL and State of Origin.  I boycott  international rugby league games. But that's just my opinion, and the NRL have made it clear they are not interested in what the fans especially from the northern hemisphere have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

GB were brought back and Regan Grace wasn't picked. It'll be the exact same team as the current England team, so completely pointless. 

Firstly, Grace should've been picked instead of Blake Austin on the wing! Secondly - as some people have previously pointed out on here - if the GB relay team wins a gold at the Olympics, nobody cares if all the runners are English or not. Thirdly, whilst there may not be any non-English players in there at the moment, that may not always be the case. But sticking with England means that those players definitely won't be able to play, or will be forced to align themselves to England in order to play.

My preference would be strong home nations playing individually and frequently. But unfortunately the RFL has shown zero appetite to make this happen (despite development of the other home nations being in their mission statement). The full England side has played Scotland just once, and Ireland just twice - both as part of tournaments. The current situation is just for vanity - to make it look like the international game has more teams and more of a presence than it actually does. Either do it properly or don't bother.

[Gomersall]

25 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'm also in favour of playing as GB.

If GB had been playing Tonga this autumn, there could have been a warm up game for Tonga against Wales. Or a game afterwards, whatever is best.

Or they could have played Wales v France as a curtain raiser before one of the tests. Or even before two or three of them if they wanted to make a series out of it. (obviously they'd have had to play the women's match elsewhere).

There's so many options. Have a summer event with some combination of Wales/France/Ireland/Scotland/England/Yorkshire/Lancashire. Currently GB/England don't have many options for matches in the summer, so come up with something.

Wales in particular (but also Scotland with Alan Tait and Fairburn, I think) have contributed a lot to the GB team in the past, so I want to celebrate that history and also try and encourage future Welsh players to play RL and hopefully represent GB. Without a GB team, I just feel that the top talent from Wales and Scotland will always be snaffled up by rugby union (e.g. Regan Grace has gone).

Ireland wouldn't be part of GB for me. If you include them, you have to go down the rugby union Lions route of not having an anthem a flag etc. Otherwise you're showing absolutely no respect to their inclusion.

So using your own argument, if Grace wasn’t good enough for GB and Wales hardly ever play how would that stop him going back to union?

[Gomersall]

46 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Nothing to stop there being a low-level home nations comp at the standard they have now - i.e. low-profile, played at small venues in front of small crowds - if people want to do that. But we've had various permutations of that for years now, and it's had zero effect on the development of the competitiveness of these nations.

My view is either do it properly or don't bother.

RL being RL means we’ve never stuck with the things you mention so no consistency. Doing it properly means what exactly?

Edited November 5, 2023 by Gomersall

[Gomersall]

23 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

the chance to run out regularly in front of 60000 at Murrayfield or 75000 in Cardiff, is going to be quite a draw. 

Or 15,000 at Headingley. 

[JM2010]

England vs France mid season every year with maybe Wales vs Ireland and Scotland vs Jamaica on the same weekend.

Year 1 - End of season Euros (excluding England), Americas cup and MEA Championship with qualification for World Series or Continental cup in year 2.

Year 3 - same as year 1 but to qualify for WC in year 4

 

[Gomersall]

24 minutes ago, Coco said:

I have been an advocate for a End of seasons 4 nation international leagues.  All nations are allowed to play.  You have promotion and relegation.  That's where Wales, Scotland and Ireland along with France should play.  It's only 3 games.

League 1 - Australia / England / New Zealand / Samoa.

League 2 - PNG / Tonga / Fiji / France.

League 3 - Wales / Cook Islands / Lebanon / Ireland

League 4 - Scotland / Jamaica / Germany / Holland. 

League 5 - Serbia / Poland/ ? / ? 

It should be end of season tournament for all countries. Fantastic for each nation and the fans.  International games with relevance and importance and growth. 

But as the NRL make all decisions on international rugby league, they made it clear international rugby league is not important.  I don't really have an issue with their decision.  Just follow Super League / NRL and State of Origin.  I boycott  international rugby league games. But that's just my opinion, and the NRL have made it clear they are not interested in what the fans especially from the northern hemisphere have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No offence Coco but seeing as you have no interest in international RL why are you actually bothering to engage with this thread?