Jump to content

England vs Samoa Series

JM2010

By JM2010
in The General Rugby League Forum

 Share

Recommended Posts

gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dave T said:

Did Samoa see that 13k crowd in Hamilton for the Pacific Final and think "There's a tournament going places?" 

Obviously they thought it better than 13,000 three times in England.

And the fault for that lies with English rugby league.

Pretty obviously.

  • Like 3

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 777
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

GeordieSaint
GeordieSaint

The NH, particularly England and the RFL, need to realise the NRL don’t want or need England to be successful. Yet the RFL and England continue to chase the Australians. You can see it seeping out of

Dave T
Dave T

So, does anyone think we've missed the boat on Samoa? 

Midlands hobo
Midlands hobo

I still cannot get over the head up the ###### arrogance of England RL fans. Why should anyone from the SH the epicentre of RL have to come here to play. How about you accept the fact you need to go t

Posted Images

graveyard johnny

graveyard johnny

Posted
Posted

maybe they watched the Eng v Tonga games and just don't want to be involved in an uninspiring, dull ,bleak series over here during our miserable October weather 

  • Like 1

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

I’d be amazed if it wasn’t in the RFLs risk planning

The same RFL that's giving away grand final tickets at half price?

You think they know how any of this works or what to do about it?

  • Like 3

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted

Talking about northern hemisphere internationals is fine, and I absolutely believe there is a place for them when it comes to mid season matches. However with the best will in the world they are not going to be large earners and many will see games against Ireland and Scotland for what they are, low quality matches against bogus heritage teams with no real domestic activity. It would be decades and take a serious amount of money to ever make them work or be meaningful. We should absolutely be concentrating on building up France and Wales though and as unpalatable it is to some that requires a joined up approach that involves another French team in SL and a Welsh team. Just playing more matches against them won't improve them to any significant degree when they don't have the players.

However we need to be playing southern hemisphere internationals at the end of the season.  There is no getting away from that. They are the games that should be money spinners and are the top quality games we all wish to see.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
Just now, gingerjon said:

Obviously they thought it better than 13,000 three times in England.

And the fault for that lies with English rugby league.

Pretty obviously.

Why ignore 

England v Samoa (43k)

& 

England v Samoa (40k)?

Its easy to just handpick poor crowds, we could do this for a while. But England and Wales has delivered many of the biggest international games in history. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Talking about northern hemisphere internationals is fine, and I absolutely believe there is a place for them when it comes to mid season matches. However with the best will in the world they are not going to be large earners and many will see games against Ireland and Scotland for what they are, low quality matches against bogus heritage teams with no real domestic activity. It would be decades and take a serious amount of money to ever make them work or be meaningful. We should absolutely be concentrating on building up France and Wales though and as unpalatable it is to some that requires a joined up approach that involves another French team in SL and a Welsh team. Just playing more matches against them won't improve them to any significant degree when they don't have the players.

However we need to be playing southern hemisphere internationals at the end of the season.  There is no getting away from that. They are the games that should be money spinners and are the top quality games we all wish to see.

Agree 100%. NH internationals are a red herring on this subject. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
graveyard johnny

graveyard johnny

Posted
Posted

has coach Sean Wane got a tag on his ankle? can he not leave the north of England to play internationals or summat? who's the manager col. Tom Parker?

  • Like 1

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Can you quote a single post of anyone celebrating that series? Because it was universally criticised here. 

 

Too easy.

Literally post one.

"Progress for the international game. Decent, realistic venues. "

Followed by:

"Quite agree, good venues ..."

  • Thanks 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why ignore 

England v Samoa (43k)

& 

England v Samoa (40k)?

Its easy to just handpick poor crowds, we could do this for a while. But England and Wales has delivered many of the biggest international games in history. 

Because the RFL wouldn't be playing these games in any ground that could hold 43,000 or 40,000. It would be three 20k max grounds.

  • Like 3

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Midlands hobo

Midlands hobo

Posted
Posted

I still cannot get over the head up the ###### arrogance of England RL fans. Why should anyone from the SH the epicentre of RL have to come here to play. How about you accept the fact you need to go there on tour. 

Like the NRL, England have sidelined other smaller nations to further their own ambitions but now are being seen as smaller nation themselves and treated the same way. 

 

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RugbyLeagueGeek

RugbyLeagueGeek

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why ignore 

England v Samoa (43k)

& 

England v Samoa (40k)?

Its easy to just handpick poor crowds, we could do this for a while. But England and Wales has delivered many of the biggest international games in history. 

Because the evidence didn't point to England hosting Samoa at the likes of St James' Park or The Emirates next year - the evidence suggested they would have chosen some uninspiring M62 venues as they did with Tonga this year, and been rewarded with the commensurate crowds.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nothing we have done has led to us being deserted by the Aussies, Kiwis and now Pacific Nations. 

This is simply the Aussies taking full control of the World game. 

Let's not start making out that the likes of Samoa and other Pacific Nations are right to refuse to come to the UK. 

It's UK international tournaments that have been the lifeblood of many tier 2 nations. These are nations that don't even stage a game in their country. They are being bought off by the Aussies who will toss them aside quicker than you can say World Cup Nines. 

If we had made a good job of the Tonga series then Samoa would have come as was planned. The fact is we didn't, it wasn't lucrative, ticket sales were below expectations and such a series didnt come across as appealing enough for the next team to follow. It didnt even make enough to provide a decent financial sweetener to anyone else to come. Samoa saw all that, saw whatever they were offered and thought nah, it's not worth it.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites
graveyard johnny

graveyard johnny

Posted
Posted

the Samoa team would have been full of withdrawals after the  NRL season anyway and no where near the quality of last years WC  squad - we would just have been watching their versions of Hopoate and Hurrell in Samoa shirts - its a blessing in disguise

  • Haha 2

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lowdesert

Lowdesert

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The same RFL that's giving away grand final tickets at half price?

You think they know how any of this works or what to do about it?

I don’t think they would have given it a thought whilst wooing potential USA partners and planning how to use 600m aus dollars in PNG.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Too easy.

Literally post one.

"Progress for the international game. Decent, realistic venues. "

Followed by:

"Quite agree, good venues ..."

Thanks, and fair enough, I note my first post was on about page 15, so I think the positive posts passed me by! 

But it is fair to say that a huge theme of the thread was criticism of venues and lack of ambition (not going to London). 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted

Well, this is utterly depressing.

  • Like 1

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Midlands hobo said:

I still cannot get over the head up the ###### arrogance of England RL fans. Why should anyone from the SH the epicentre of RL have to come here to play. How about you accept the fact you need to go there on tour. 

Like the NRL, England have sidelined other smaller nations to further their own ambitions but now are being seen as smaller nation themselves and treated the same way. 

 

In part, because England is one of the few nations that can afford to stage international RL. Maybe Samoa could host us? 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lowdesert

Lowdesert

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Midlands hobo said:

I still cannot get over the head up the ###### arrogance of England RL fans. Why should anyone from the SH the epicentre of RL have to come here to play. How about you accept the fact you need to go there on tour. 

Like the NRL, England have sidelined other smaller nations to further their own ambitions but now are being seen as smaller nation themselves and treated the same way. 

 

The only way to turn this on its head is to plan a SH tour in 2025 and win.  Whatever opportunity can be arranged, or drops into our lap in 2024, we have to play games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Thanks, and fair enough, I note my first post was on about page 15, so I think the positive posts passed me by! 

Fair.

I just think that the RFL and the surrounding English rugby league 'eco system' need to stop blaming their state on the NRL, on union, on (and I'm guilty of this) football, or whatever.

When *everything* gets this bad, you have to go with the recurring element and the recurring element is English rugby league, the RFL.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Damien said:

If we had made a good job of the Tonga series then Samoa would have come as was planned. The fact is we didn't, it wasn't lucrative, ticket sales were below expectations and such a series didnt come across as appealing enough for the next team to follow. It didnt even make enough to provide a decent financial sweetener to anyone else to come. Samoa saw all that, saw whatever they were offered and thought nah, it's not worth it.

I'll concede some of that, execution was poor, however I think nations are playing a dangerous game jumping in bed with the Aussies. 

Personally I think a team touring a Tier One nation like England is a positive thing for them. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
Just now, gingerjon said:

Fair.

I just think that the RFL and the surrounding English rugby league 'eco system' need to stop blaming their state on the NRL, on union, on (and I'm guilty of this) football, or whatever.

When *everything* gets this bad, you have to go with the recurring element and the recurring element is English rugby league, the RFL.

This is where I have to disagree, and you may have seen my posts putting up a case for the RFL's efforts in the last 30 years. 

International RL tournaments had been growing nicely, we'd returned to playing games at Wembley, games scheduled at Spurs and Arsenal, Old Trafford, Elland Rd, Denver, etc. This was pretty much all RFL led.

The problem is that the rich millionaire doesn't like the pauper down the street having any kind of say in the street party. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Midlands hobo

Midlands hobo

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

The only way to turn this on its head is to plan a SH tour in 2025 and win.  Whatever opportunity can be arranged, or drops into our lap in 2024, we have to play games.

Agreed. Losing to Samoa whilst great for Samoa ( and a great game to watch) was frankly more than a nail in the England RL coffin. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.