England vs Samoa Series

[BristolDevonCharlie]

5 hours ago, The 4 of Us said:

I’d like to see a game at Craven Cottage. A tad under 30,000 with new stand complete.

Downside is it only has 102 metres of grass. Two metres shorter than Old Trafford. Would make the in-goals tiny and /or treacherous. 

Brentford - designed, I assume, with Rugby in mind - is 109 metres long. 

Just a cheeky thought, but Ashton Gate is also 109 metres, 27k capacity, in the south, in a interested rugby region. Doubt it would sell out, but people would be interested.  Won't happen, but a thought. (See RLWC 2013 Cook Islands v USA at The Mem)

[Archie Gordon]

2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Although I initially opted for a London game, upon reading this I'm now thinking of changing my mind. Plus the additional point that someone made about the Fulham stadium only just being ready in time (and maybe not at all, if they have any further delays), means that it's probably Brentford or nothing (which is a good option, providing it's available).

I then added the uncertainty about what matches in London we'd be following it up with in 2025 and 2026, in order to keep the trend going. At the moment I believe it's an Ashes tour to Australia in 2025 and a southern hemisphere world cup in 2026, so will there be any England matches in those two autumns at all, let alone any in London? If not, then we'd be putting the Samoa game in London, and then nothing else.

The solution is to put something on in London during 2025 and 2026 - doesn't have to be Autumn. 

[arcticchris]

Would go 

Game 1 London (Chelsea Stamford Bridge)

Game 2 Wigan

Game 3 Leeds or Hull

[graveyard johnny]

surely Sam Moa cant take on England all on his own next year - he was a good player but he will be 38 by then!

[doc]

I take it all these London clubs will be happy to rent out their grounds for next to nothing?

[GeordieSaint]

Any games outside the M62 corridor and Cumbria should only be in areas where there is significant development activity. London, Newcastle, Birmingham. Only options in England. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Or Cumbria or Wales. 

Cumbria v Samoa would certainly be an interesting game! They certainly need to play a warm up and I was just thinking how great the Leeds game NZ played in 2015 was with 20,000 people in a bouncing Headingley! 

[Hello]

13 hours ago, Gomersall said:

It’s strange IMO that a club that has been involved in two tragic incidents of fans being crushed should try and cram as many people as possible into a stand. Money again.

I really respect your work Gomersall with all your posts about the developing nations, but, with all due respect, as a fan of Liverpool FC who has been to Anfield a number of times I've never felt like I would be crushed there.  As I say, total respect to you as a poster who goes the extra mile to highlight the positives that no one else seems to at e.g. reporting on the Netherlands   I love reading abouting that stuff..............

Edited November 7, 2023 by Hello

[Jparrish]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Starting with weaknesses.

1. This is not a WC and will not have the extra pull of a WC.

2. Samoa do not exactly have the same pulling power of Germany or Brazil in Soccer or All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks in RU (see Autumn series 2024).

3. The RFL has still not managed to sell out heartland venues outside a WC for years.

Moving to opportunities

1. England RL can become the Rugby team of the nation, servicing the north, east, south and west, whilst the RFU play solely out of Twickenham until the next WC they host.

2. There is an in house marketing agency in IMG and confirmation of opponents 12 months in advance. Plenty of opportunity to deliver high standard promotional material.

I think there is credit to St James Park opening the series, the home of the WC opener where the two teams played only 2 years prior (by the time the fixture comes round).

In other years or against other opponents, I would say go for London, but the RFU have 2024 sewn up with four consecutive weekends hosting the biggest drawing southern hemisphere nations at Twickenham. Give London a miss. It will still be there for a bigger and better day. Get to the rugby starved midlands instead for game two at Coventry where RL has been before and then finish it all off in the centre of the north at the Etihad in Manchester.

Two 50k+ stadiums in the north and a 30k + venue in the midlands.

There will be difficulty getting traction and media attention in London next year against the RFU’s schedule, whereas hosting outside the capital will allow cheaper marketing opportunities to local press and broadcasters.

Good points, maybe Newcastle would be the way to go for the non heartland game. Play on the revenge narrative aswell as build on previous in the NE.

However "confirmation of opponents 12 months in advance" is crucial. As it stands nothing is confirmed and we can't be sure when/if it will. Football stadiums need to be booked well in advance if you want to use mid season i believe 

 

[Eddie]

53 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Any games outside the M62 corridor and Cumbria should only be in areas where there is significant development activity. London, Newcastle, Birmingham. Only options in England. 

Sheffield, York. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Eddie

[wilsontown]

I'd love it if we played internationals at York but the ground capacity is 8,500. Not big enough.

[meast]

What's the obsession with Brentford all of a sudden?

Have they or the RFL indicated that it could possibly be a test match venue or indeed host anything other than Brentford FC?

Or it just another if those weird RL fan ideas?

[welshmagpie]

6 minutes ago, meast said:

What's the obsession with Brentford all of a sudden?

Have they or the RFL indicated that it could possibly be a test match venue or indeed host anything other than Brentford FC?

Or it just another if those weird RL fan ideas?

New ground. Suitably sized for a particular type of game. Hills Hoists & Wests within a stones throw. 

[sam4731]

I think some people who are dismissing London for other "expansion" areas are understating how important London is in all of this. We get the biggest international crowds in London, fact! The national press couldn't care less if England play in Newcastle. Put them in London (I think at a bigger stadium too) and they might care.

[arcticchris]

1 hour ago, meast said:

What's the obsession with Brentford all of a sudden?

Have they or the RFL indicated that it could possibly be a test match venue or indeed host anything other than Brentford FC?

Or it just another if those weird RL fan ideas?

I agree. I can’t see that having an event feel that could persuade many fans to trek down south to go there.

[ghost crayfish]

I think they need to start the series at Headingley. That becomes the perfect advertisement for the rest of the series. Then put the second test in London and the third at Wigan.

[Sports Prophet]

12 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Although I initially opted for a London game, upon reading this I'm now thinking of changing my mind. Plus the additional point that someone made about the Fulham stadium only just being ready in time (and maybe not at all, if they have any further delays), means that it's probably Brentford or nothing (which is a good option, providing it's available).

I then added the uncertainty about what matches in London we'd be following it up with in 2025 and 2026, in order to keep the trend going. At the moment I believe it's an Ashes tour to Australia in 2025 and a southern hemisphere world cup in 2026, so will there be any England matches in those two autumns at all, let alone any in London? If not, then we'd be putting the Samoa game in London, and then nothing else.

Correct. Smaller ground in London in the shadow of a sold out Twickenham will only further serve the southern narrative that RL is the considerably smaller event than RU.

With no reasonable follow up opportunities until up to 3 years later, consolidate the North and maybe pursue the midlands.

Return to London for the opener of a Kangaroos tour in ‘27.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[moorside roughyed]

On 06/11/2023 at 22:11, Eddie said:

Just been at the RFL meeting, it’s

1, Crown Flatt,

2, Mount Pleasant,

3, Post Office Road.  

Brilliant,love Featherstones ground..

[crashmon]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

 

With no reasonable follow up opportunities until up to 3 years later, consolidate the North and maybe pursue the midlands.

Return to London for the opener of a Kangaroos tour in ‘27.

THere is the problem...   You need a game a year in London for at least 5 years at the same venue and see the trajectory. Hosting a one-off test in London with no follow up its pointless.

Thats why we need mid season internationals as well, but this cannot be vs SH teams.  Hence it needs to be France.  People are more likely to come to England v France in London, as its England they are coming to see not just another  game of RL which is how heartlands fans would see it.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by crashmon

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, crashmon said:

THere is the problem...   You need a game a year in London for at least 5 years at the same venue and see the trajectory. Hosting a one-off test in London with no follow up its pointless.

Thats why we need mid season internationals as well, but this cannot be vs SH teams.  Hence it needs to be France.  People are more likely to come to England v France in London, as its England they are coming to see not just another  game of RL which is how heartlands fans would see it.

 

What sort of attendance do you think a mid season international between England and France in London would get? 

[Archie Gordon]

The logic that we wait until 2027 for a test in London rather than go for a test in 2024 and 2027 seems odd. Why would we think going 5 years without a test in London before 2027 is better than going 3 years?

[Archie Gordon]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What sort of attendance do you think a mid season international between England and France in London would get? 

On par with Warrington, probably.

I think the advantages are: (1a) different set of fans with a different sociodemographic profile; (1b) those fans may not be put off by a one-sided game; (2) it has more chance of building into a successful annual event in the capital.

But first time you try it, you'll struggle for numbers.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

On par with Warrington, probably.

I think the advantages are: (1a) different set of fans with a different sociodemographic profile; (1b) those fans may not be put off by a one-sided game; (2) it has more chance of building into a successful annual event in the capital.

But first time you try it, you'll struggle for numbers.

I agree, and I think it'd probably do better that Warrington or Leigh, where tickets usually have to be given away. 

A challenge is that we are so entrenched in the North. Everyone travels down to London, all players, officials, refs etc. It all costs and we don't want to spend. We need to get out of our shell.

[crashmon]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

What sort of attendance do you think a mid season international between England and France in London would get? 

The question is that in year 5 has the attendances grown from year 1? Thats the aim here...   Growth built on brand awareness.

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, crashmon said:

The question is that in year 5 has the attendances grown from year 1? Thats the aim here...   Growth built on brand awareness.

 

That is a question, but mine is also a valid one.