England vs Samoa Series

[crashmon]

I think you could get 20K to 25K in London if marketed right.   But I would not go over 25K max

As long as the tickets are priced sensibily I'm pretty sure you would fill out Brentford easily.

Edited November 7, 2023 by crashmon

[Mathius Hellwege]

13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

England v Samoa in the World Cup semi final, in summer in a famous stadium drew 40k to Arsenal. I’d love to share in the optimism but I don’t understand why so many on this forum think Brentford would sell out for a November test match against Samoa. 

3 games in the shrinking poor oversaturated M62 corridor hat 13.000 fans on average

1 game in London with 17.500 is a no-brainer

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, crashmon said:

I think you could get 20K to 25K in London if marketed right.   But I would not go over 25K max

As long as the tickets are priced sensibily I'm pretty sure you would fill out Brentford easily.

If marketed right is the key sentence there, we all know it won’t be. 

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

3 games in the shrinking poor oversaturated M62 corridor hat 13.000 fans on average

1 game in London with 17.500 is a no-brainer

The M62 corridor isn't shrinking, and while I agree the crowds were poor it’s where most rugby league fans live. If you think 17k Londoners will go to Brentford to watch Samoa then great, I’d love to see it, just think it’s unlikely. 

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

A sell out, seriously? 

You don't think Samoavs Tonga in Auckland will sell out?

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

If the schedule next year is similar to this year there is scope to do both and for Samoa to play Tonga before flying to the UK. The NRL Grand Final this year was 2 weeks before the SL final.

Wasn't it just an oddity of where the dates fell this year?

I thought that (aside from when changes have been made due to World Cups and COVID, etc) the NRL grand final is always the first Sunday in October and the SL grand final is the second Saturday in October. This means they are usually 6 days apart. 

This year the 1st Sunday in October was 1st October. That meant that the second Saturday in the month wasn't the following week as usual, but the week after.

The 2nd weekend in October is when there is an international break in the the football season and SL generally uses that weekend because it ensures that Old Trafford will be free.

How the dates fell this year also meant that the AFL and NRL grand finals were on the same weekend. The AFL always uses the final Saturday in September - meaning AFL and NRL play one weekend after another. This year the weekend of 30th Sept and 1st Oct meant both played the same week. 

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You don't think Samoavs Tonga in Auckland will sell out?

Possibly, well I expect they’d get more in than if NZ we’re playing, but I don’t think they’d get close to selling out Melbourne or Sydney. Unless they played in small grounds of course. 

[Just Browny]

52 minutes ago, Eddie said:

England v Samoa in the World Cup semi final, in summer in a famous stadium drew 40k to Arsenal. I’d love to share in the optimism but I don’t understand why so many on this forum think Brentford would sell out for a November test match against Samoa. 

Huh? The game was in November.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

12 hours ago, Damien said:

Well many grounds are. Headingley is sub 20k and has an open terrace, it's hardly luxury. If we are having 1 West Yorkshire test, which we should, then that isn't good enough and we shouldbe aiming for more.

You moan about Old Trafford and say you won't go there either. That doesn't mean stadiums like that and Elland Road don't sell as bigger and more prestigious events. The fact is that Elland Road has got some great crowds for RL events.

They are both dumps and happy to not see them being used 

Better a decent modern stadium if available 

I'm quite seriously rather have 26k in Hull's place than 32k at Elland road 

[The 4 of Us]

I’d like to see a game at Craven Cottage. A tad under 30,000 with new stand complete.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think Woolf has said the same - trying to organise a Samoa vs Tonga game or series.

How would hat go crowd wise? Assume it would be in NZ?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

Just now, The 4 of Us said:

I’d like to see a game at Craven Cottage. A tad under 30,000 with new stand complete.

Would be fun I guess

[Mojo]

11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Possibly, well I expect they’d get more in than if NZ we’re playing, but I don’t think they’d get close to selling out Melbourne or Sydney. Unless they played in small grounds of course. 

Toa Samoa played kiwis earlier this year and it was 23k attendance and most of those fans were samoan fans. Hardly any of the kiwi fans turned up. I can guarantee if Samoa played Tonga and both teams were at full strength that number would rise a lot more because of the Tongan fans. Kiwi fans were very disappointing in this tournament.

Sydney has a huge Samoan following and also Brisbane (sorry not Melbourne)

I won't be surprised if Samoa ends up staying and plays Tonga because of the huge following they have in Auckland and Australia 

[Sports Prophet]

Starting with weaknesses.

1. This is not a WC and will not have the extra pull of a WC.

2. Samoa do not exactly have the same pulling power of Germany or Brazil in Soccer or All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks in RU (see Autumn series 2024).

3. The RFL has still not managed to sell out heartland venues outside a WC for years.

Moving to opportunities

1. England RL can become the Rugby team of the nation, servicing the north, east, south and west, whilst the RFU play solely out of Twickenham until the next WC they host.

2. There is an in house marketing agency in IMG and confirmation of opponents 12 months in advance. Plenty of opportunity to deliver high standard promotional material.

I think there is credit to St James Park opening the series, the home of the WC opener where the two teams played only 2 years prior (by the time the fixture comes round).

In other years or against other opponents, I would say go for London, but the RFU have 2024 sewn up with four consecutive weekends hosting the biggest drawing southern hemisphere nations at Twickenham. Give London a miss. It will still be there for a bigger and better day. Get to the rugby starved midlands instead for game two at Coventry where RL has been before and then finish it all off in the centre of the north at the Etihad in Manchester.

Two 50k+ stadiums in the north and a 30k + venue in the midlands.

There will be difficulty getting traction and media attention in London next year against the RFU’s schedule, whereas hosting outside the capital will allow cheaper marketing opportunities to local press and broadcasters.

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Wasn't it just an oddity of where the dates fell this year?

I thought that (aside from when changes have been made due to World Cups and COVID, etc) the NRL grand final is always the first Sunday in October and the SL grand final is the second Saturday in October. This means they are usually 6 days apart. 

This year the 1st Sunday in October was 1st October. That meant that the second Saturday in the month wasn't the following week as usual, but the week after.

The 2nd weekend in October is when there is an international break in the the football season and SL generally uses that weekend because it ensures that Old Trafford will be free.

How the dates fell this year also meant that the AFL and NRL grand finals were on the same weekend. The AFL always uses the final Saturday in September - meaning AFL and NRL play one weekend after another. This year the weekend of 30th Sept and 1st Oct meant both played the same week. 

Well 1 week apart still obviously gives scope.

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Huh? The game was in November.

Oh yes, proper brain fart there

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

I’d like to see a game at Craven Cottage. A tad under 30,000 with new stand complete.

Great for pre-match drinking.

[Eddie]

13 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I will say as well, maybe from a romantic/nostalgic view of traditional tours, I'd love to see Samoa play a warm up against a club side. 

Or Cumbria or Wales. 

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well 1 week apart still obviously gives scope.

Even if both finals were at the same time I'm not sure if Samoa playing Tonga before flying and then England playing France at the same time is a bad outcome anyway. At least that gives both teams 4 end of season games

[Mojo]

I think a full strength Samoan team would give England a more competitive game then the Tonga because of the halves.

1 Sua Faalogo

2 Brian To'o

3 Stephen Crichton

4 Izack Tago

5 Tylan May

6 Jarome Luai

7 Chanel Harris-Tevita

8 Junior Paulo

9 Chan Kum Tong

10 Braden Hamlin-Uele

11 Luciano Leilua

12 Jeremiah Nanai

13 Josh Schuster

 

14 Josh Papali'i

15 Spencer Leniu

16 Conelly Lemuelu

17 Ronald Volkman

 

 

[DI Keith Fowler]

2 hours ago, The 4 of Us said:

I’d like to see a game at Craven Cottage. A tad under 30,000 with new stand complete.

Planned to be open by the start of 24/25 football season but I'd be a little cautious booking it. 

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

In other years or against other opponents, I would say go for London, but the RFU have 2024 sewn up with four consecutive weekends hosting the biggest drawing southern hemisphere nations at Twickenham. Give London a miss. It will still be there for a bigger and better day. Get to the rugby starved midlands instead for game two at Coventry where RL has been before and then finish it all off in the centre of the north at the Etihad in Manchester.

Although I initially opted for a London game, upon reading this I'm now thinking of changing my mind. Plus the additional point that someone made about the Fulham stadium only just being ready in time (and maybe not at all, if they have any further delays), means that it's probably Brentford or nothing (which is a good option, providing it's available).

I then added the uncertainty about what matches in London we'd be following it up with in 2025 and 2026, in order to keep the trend going. At the moment I believe it's an Ashes tour to Australia in 2025 and a southern hemisphere world cup in 2026, so will there be any England matches in those two autumns at all, let alone any in London? If not, then we'd be putting the Samoa game in London, and then nothing else.

[meast]

16 hours ago, Damien said:

Anfield is easily the most cramped of any stadium I've been in. People were literally standing in the aisles and leaving because they couldn't cope with the seats at the 4 nations there.

It's awful, Elland Road and Old Trafford aren't much better.

 

[Mathius Hellwege]

54 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Although I initially opted for a London game, upon reading this I'm now thinking of changing my mind. Plus the additional point that someone made about the Fulham stadium only just being ready in time (and maybe not at all, if they have any further delays), means that it's probably Brentford or nothing (which is a good option, providing it's available).

I then added the uncertainty about what matches in London we'd be following it up with in 2025 and 2026, in order to keep the trend going. At the moment I believe it's an Ashes tour to Australia in 2025 and a southern hemisphere world cup in 2026, so will there be any England matches in those two autumns at all, let alone any in London? If not, then we'd be putting the Samoa game in London, and then nothing else.

yes, god arguments against London 24, changed my mind and would give them 27 and 28 each a game against NZ and AUS

 

24 then Newcastle, Leeds or Hull, Sheffield or Midland

[Mathius Hellwege]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Starting with weaknesses.

1. This is not a WC and will not have the extra pull of a WC.

2. Samoa do not exactly have the same pulling power of Germany or Brazil in Soccer or All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks in RU (see Autumn series 2024).

3. The RFL has still not managed to sell out heartland venues outside a WC for years.

Moving to opportunities

1. England RL can become the Rugby team of the nation, servicing the north, east, south and west, whilst the RFU play solely out of Twickenham until the next WC they host.

2. There is an in house marketing agency in IMG and confirmation of opponents 12 months in advance. Plenty of opportunity to deliver high standard promotional material.

I think there is credit to St James Park opening the series, the home of the WC opener where the two teams played only 2 years prior (by the time the fixture comes round).

In other years or against other opponents, I would say go for London, but the RFU have 2024 sewn up with four consecutive weekends hosting the biggest drawing southern hemisphere nations at Twickenham. Give London a miss. It will still be there for a bigger and better day. Get to the rugby starved midlands instead for game two at Coventry where RL has been before and then finish it all off in the centre of the north at the Etihad in Manchester.

Two 50k+ stadiums in the north and a 30k + venue in the midlands.

There will be difficulty getting traction and media attention in London next year against the RFU’s schedule, whereas hosting outside the capital will allow cheaper marketing opportunities to local press and broadcasters.

thank you for the analysis, looked up Twickenham dates in 24

very impressive, as much as i like the casual fans for Internationals, their one disadvantage is that they are also interested in RU