Catalans Travel

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

God forbid a French team should be as or more successful than a British team on and off the field, lets make em pay, that'll show em!!!  is there any wonder the game can't progress .

We should have sensible conversations around stuff like this. We shouldn't be embarrassed about charging teams to play in the comp - but it should be a well thought out approach, rather than just doing these things ad hoc.

[Dave T]

Just having a look at another comparable sport that has an international league and their South African body carried a cost of c£13m in 2022 for participation costs and travel for Europe competitions.

The thing to look at here is what the SL place is worth, and let's be honest here, the decision to allow a French team into the UK pyramid is worth millions of Euro to them - millions and millions in sponsorship, funding, gates etc - we shouldn't be afraid of having a participation fee instead of us actually paying them. 

Other sports are happy to make decisions like this based on cold hard cash (most Amercian sports, Formula One etc).

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Just having a look at another comparable sport that has an international league and their South African body carried a cost of c£13m in 2022 for participation costs and travel for Europe competitions.

The thing to look at here is what the SL place is worth, and let's be honest here, the decision to allow a French team into the UK pyramid is worth millions of Euro to them - millions and millions in sponsorship, funding, gates etc - we shouldn't be afraid of having a participation fee instead of us actually paying them. 

Other sports are happy to make decisions like this based on cold hard cash (most Amercian sports, Formula One etc).

That is fine, a participation fee is as you say pretty standard fare in many similar cases.

Paying for flights ad hoc seems cheap.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That is fine, a participation fee is as you say pretty standard fare in many similar cases.

Paying for flights ad hoc seems cheap.

Agreed, however thats more a presentation point. Participation fees to cover incremental costs is fine. 

But it should be agreed and set. 

[Damien]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Just having a look at another comparable sport that has an international league and their South African body carried a cost of c£13m in 2022 for participation costs and travel for Europe competitions.

The thing to look at here is what the SL place is worth, and let's be honest here, the decision to allow a French team into the UK pyramid is worth millions of Euro to them - millions and millions in sponsorship, funding, gates etc - we shouldn't be afraid of having a participation fee instead of us actually paying them. 

Other sports are happy to make decisions like this based on cold hard cash (most Amercian sports, Formula One etc).

This is quite a different discussion. This isn't about a participation fee and Catalans have been in the league for nearly 20 years.

Edited February 28 by Damien

[ATLANTISMAN]

If this is correct then its a total disgrace if I was the club i would tell SL to ###### off it stinks of a total tin pot sport .

On the subject of teams flying in and out some clubs have rowed back on this for this season Wolves spent 3/4 nights in France and i know Leigh Leopards plan to do the same and also Hull KR no idea of others .

Edited February 28 by ATLANTISMAN

[sheddingswasus]

2 hours ago, Coggo said:

Catalans get all sorts of benefits. They get - or at least until recently - a €900,000 grant every year from the local council, which is also paying €15m for the ground upgrades at Brutus.

Irrelevant with regards to travel. The SL clubs should pay their own way. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

This is quite a different discussion. This isn't about a participation fee and Catalans have been in the league for nearly 20 years.

Well taht was what I acknowledged earlier, if we want participation fees (which are the same thing, in reality), but to introduce them now is mean spirited at best. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Well taht was what I acknowledged earlier, if we want participation fees (which are the same thing, in reality), but to introduce them now is mean spirited at best. 

It's not really, participation costs are a one off fee when a team joins a competition. Travel is an ongoing cost.

We should be wanting to enhance SL and Catalans certainly do that. Putting unfair barriers in a team's way rarely ends well.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Just having a look at another comparable sport that has an international league and their South African body carried a cost of c£13m in 2022 for participation costs and travel for Europe competitions.

The thing to look at here is what the SL place is worth, and let's be honest here, the decision to allow a French team into the UK pyramid is worth millions of Euro to them - millions and millions in sponsorship, funding, gates etc - we shouldn't be afraid of having a participation fee instead of us actually paying them. 

Other sports are happy to make decisions like this based on cold hard cash (most Amercian sports, Formula One etc).

A participation fee is one thing and should be equal for all sides. If the governors are willing to add a trans or inter-continental club to their structure, then there should be due diligence conducted on the affordability of all clubs to travel and consider establishing travel grants if necessary.

Its not just Catalans which have the opportunity to make millions from being included in SL, it is the SL as a brand which should be making drastically many more millions from including such new markets in their top pyramid. That the SL governors can’t adequately take advantage of this opportunity, it shouldn’t be at the expense of their club partner doing a great job of making a suitable financial gain from their inclusion.

[Dave T]

43 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not really, participation costs are a one off fee when a team joins a competition. Travel is an ongoing cost.

We should be wanting to enhance SL and Catalans certainly do that. Putting unfair barriers in a team's way rarely ends well.

 

38 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

A participation fee is one thing and should be equal for all sides. If the governors are willing to add a trans or inter-continental club to their structure, then there should be due diligence conducted on the affordability of all clubs to travel and consider establishing travel grants if necessary.

Its not just Catalans which have the opportunity to make millions from being included in SL, it is the SL as a brand which should be making drastically many more millions from including such new markets in their top pyramid. That the SL governors can’t adequately take advantage of this opportunity, it shouldn’t be at the expense of their club partner doing a great job of making a suitable financial gain from their inclusion.

I agree with the principal of these posts, and I don't think changing the terms of Catalans participation is sensible. 

However, a commercial agreement can be arranged however we want it to be, whether that's a buy-in fee, or through ongoing commercial terms, and tbh, I've regularly called for us to be smarter around this kind of thing. We often want to just give places away pretty cheaply, despite that SL place clearly having a huge value to Catalans. Without a place in SL, let's be honest, Catalans Dragons are not really a major thing. 

I can only think that the change here is around a formalising of arrangements for overseas and expansion teams. We've made a right balls up of it in the past, we've had some teams getting central funding, sometimes not, we've seen some paying travel, some not. I wonder if this is a standardisation of commercial terms. 

Watching F1 recently, their owners were pretty blunt about if new teams want in, they have to make it worthwhile for the other teams. I'm OK with us being more commercially minded. 

[Worzel]

7 hours ago, Coggo said:

Oh. Do all the other Super League clubs get big grants from their local council too, then?

Many do, yes. Most Aussie clubs do too. I don’t see the Brisbane Broncos getting Manly to pay for their flights to Sydney because the NSW Govt built them a new stand. 

Catalans aren’t a bank for the other clubs. This is an embarrassing disgrace. 

[Worzel]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Watching F1 recently, their owners were pretty blunt about if new teams want in, they have to make it worthwhile for the other teams. I'm OK with us being more commercially minded. 

It’s not reasonable to implement something like this after the fact though, that’s totally different. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

There is an underlying internal campaign from a few clubs to get rid of Catalans 

4 clubs in total 

[Dave T]

33 minutes ago, Worzel said:

It’s not reasonable to implement something like this after the fact though, that’s totally different. 

Indeed, which I've acknowledged a few times. 

I do wonder if it's an attempt to standardise an approach, if Toulouse make it into SL again then it'd be harsh to treat them differently. 

All of this though is ultimately an outcome of us just winging things for years. 

[Dave T]

38 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Many do, yes. Most Aussie clubs do too. I don’t see the Brisbane Broncos getting Manly to pay for their flights to Sydney because the NSW Govt built them a new stand. 

Catalans aren’t a bank for the other clubs. This is an embarrassing disgrace. 

I'm not sure of the detail, but I do recall reading articles about clubs having to cover costs in the Aussie game too. I don't think this is as unique as we make out. 

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

There is an underlying internal campaign from a few clubs to get rid of Catalans 

4 clubs in total 

Can we just get rid of 2 of those clubs instead? Pick them at random. The other 2 would then fall into line. 

The time for lowest-common-denominator thinking should be over, other clubs should aspire to do what Catalans have done, not retreat to their own mediocrity. 

[Copa]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure of the detail, but I do recall reading articles about clubs having to cover costs in the Aussie game too. I don't think this is as unique as we make out. 

I’m pretty certain the NRL pays for travel expenses. If they didn’t clubs like the Cowboys and Warriors would suffer significantly.

[RayCee]

1 hour ago, Copa said:

I’m pretty certain the NRL pays for travel expenses. If they didn’t clubs like the Cowboys and Warriors would suffer significantly.

The Warriors carried all travel cost for some years after they joined the NRL. For a new club finding it’s feet it was a burden they didn’t need. Although the Catalans are now well established and in a better position to absorb the extra cost than the Warriors were, it still seems unfair. The Catalans already have to pay for all their trips to the UK yet a visiting club only has to stump up once a year in return. 

It reflects an attitude that you need us more than we need you and we'll use that stronger position to our advantage, knowing you have no choice but to accept.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Copa said:

I’m pretty certain the NRL pays for travel expenses. If they didn’t clubs like the Cowboys and Warriors would suffer significantly.

 

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

The Warriors carried all travel cost for some years after they joined the NRL. For a new club finding it’s feet it was a burden they didn’t need. Although the Catalans are now well established and in a better position to absorb the extra cost than the Warriors were, it still seems unfair. The Catalans already have to pay for all their trips to the UK yet a visiting club only has to stump up once a year in return. 

It reflects an attitude that you need us more than we need you and we'll use that stronger position to our advantage, knowing you have no choice but to accept.

Thanks, I thought I'd seen something, and this often comes up whenever Perth are mentioned. 

In reality, we probably should have a buy-in fee and then you buy an equal share, where for unusual costs and things we should share the risks. 

I do think the only benefit of this is consistency, I'm not a massive fan of having multiple overseas clubs in the pyramid being treated differently like we saw with Toulouse, Catalans and Toronto. But this should have been considered before now. 

[Copa]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

Thanks, I thought I'd seen something, and this often comes up whenever Perth are mentioned. 

In reality, we probably should have a buy-in fee and then you buy an equal share, where for unusual costs and things we should share the risks. 

I do think the only benefit of this is consistency, I'm not a massive fan of having multiple overseas clubs in the pyramid being treated differently like we saw with Toulouse, Catalans and Toronto. But this should have been considered before now. 

This 2018 article (  https://amp.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-s-football-department-cap-creates-sydney-or-the-bush-divide-20180628-p4zob3.html )  says:

“The NRL cover the cost of 27 economy return flights, 13 twin rooms and breakfast, as well as hotel transfers.”

 

[Harry Stottle]

20 hours ago, bar red said:

Apologies if this has already been covered. On the League Express podcast Rhodrl Jones mentioned that next season Catalans will be made to cover all the other teams travel expenses . The other clubs seem to have managed the cost in the past, why change the goalposts now. So much for encouraging the spread of the game, anybody outside of the UK that tries seem to have obstacles placed in their way at every turn.

Just as the game in France seems to be on an upward curve the leading team are hit with a massive financial penalty. Good luck with trying to convince Mr Gausch this is in the best interests of the game. Maybe he'll just tell them to stick it. Which would be great for the M62 clubs but disastrous for the international game. Just as things were looking up

 

Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread - only read the OP - why have you not explained the reason Mr Jones stated why the 'goalposts' have been changed as you put it?

I suggest if not already covered in this thread and anyone who wants to know the reason just listen to the podcast, thatway nothing will be lost in translation.

Edited February 29 by Harry Stottle

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Copa said:

This 2018 article (  https://amp.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-s-football-department-cap-creates-sydney-or-the-bush-divide-20180628-p4zob3.html )  says:

“The NRL cover the cost of 27 economy return flights, 13 twin rooms and breakfast, as well as hotel transfers.”

 

Yes, it's clear they've moved on from that. 

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread - only read the OP - why have you not explained the reason Mr Jones stated why the 'goalposts' have been changed as you put it?

I suggest if not already covered in this thread and anyone who wants to know the reason just listen to the podcast, thatway nothing will be lost in translation.

Tell us Harry! 

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Tell us Harry! 

Listen to it David, as I say you will get it first hand and can make up your own mind too many things get misconstrued on this site.

Edited February 29 by Harry Stottle