How to restore the magic of the Challenge Cup (Merged Threads)

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, by my reckoning it would be close on 467,000 each.

1.35 million current funding x 12 ÷ 35.

And this would revitalise the Challenge Cup?

[Archie Gordon]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, by my reckoning it would be close on 467,000 each.

1.35 million current funding x 12 ÷ 35.

That's an extreme position IMO.

But I reckon the current share is pretty extreme too - almost everything handed to 12 clubs. There ought to be a middle way that would deliver - among other things - a more interesting/unpredictable Cup comp.

[Dave T]

Repeat fixtures appear to be disliked, yet we almost guarantee them with the seeding. Prices are stupid. Effort is poor. 

Loosen the seeding, price it right, put effort in probably most importantly, enjoy it for what it is and stop writing articles trashing it. 

We may also need to accept that a 90k stadium is just too big and unfriendly for this game, especially the way that Wembley is laid out. 

[Tommygilf]

25 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Cool, let's all watch a semi-pro sport. That'll get the crowds in!

I'm slowly coming around to the @ATLANTISMAN view that the Challenge Cup is an anachronism in the modern era. Probably for similar reasons as your concern, fundamentally: No Super League side can compete, so it's just the same 12 sides (and realistically probably only 8 of those) who can win it, so it doesn't have any reason to stand out. Football struggles to get people excited by domestic cup competitions anymore, and they have hegemony, so what chance a small, minority sport like ours?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, make the normal club hosted rounds (whatever the format) of the challenge cup on season tickets and instantly the competition would look a lot healthier.

[gingerjon]

20 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

a more interesting/unpredictable Cup comp.

Seven different winners in the past seven years.

Has there been a run like that before in Challenge Cup history?

[Archie Gordon]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Seven different winners in the past seven years.

Has there been a run like that before in Challenge Cup history?

I don't think there's all that much wrong with the semis and final - I still go to the final every year and I even thought about heading up to Doncaster on Sunday for the semi because that looks very tasty.

The problem I have is that the community/semi-pro rounds are great fun and then we just deflate the whole thing for a couple of rounds and expect it to re-inflate again. It doesn't work.

[up the robins]

I would make all the Super League clubs enter a round earlier and make it so  the first two rounds that the sl teams are in the draw if they pull out a lower league team the lower league team gets the home fixture.

For me the challenge cup is about much more than the top teams it's about the lower order teams getting some revenue from hosting a big club.

The Super League Teams  could and should do far more to help the lower leagues and grass roots rugby the sport cant survive with out them.

I know that if the Super League teams enter a round earlier they would probably be tempted to field weaker teams but that would and to the jeopardy of risking getting knocked out under estimating there opposition.

 

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't think there's all that much wrong with the semis and final - I still go to the final every year and I even thought about heading up to Doncaster on Sunday for the semi because that looks very tasty.

The problem I have is that the community/semi-pro rounds are great fun and then we just deflate the whole thing for a couple of rounds and expect it to re-inflate again. It doesn't work.

Lose Magic Weekend, have the SL clubs enter a round earlier (so no impact on total number of games) but fixed to be the away side if drawn against a lower ranked club.

That's all I would change right now. Everything else just feels too fiddly.

I'm not sure the Cup can be "saved" - beyond believing that the final absolutely can be salvaged as a day out with a bit of thought and investment.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

56 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Cool, let's all watch a semi-pro sport. That'll get the crowds in!

I'm slowly coming around to the @ATLANTISMAN view that the Challenge Cup is an anachronism in the modern era. Probably for similar reasons as your concern, fundamentally: No Super League side can compete, so it's just the same 12 sides (and realistically probably only 8 of those) who can win it, so it doesn't have any reason to stand out. Football struggles to get people excited by domestic cup competitions anymore, and they have hegemony, so what chance a small, minority sport like ours?

I hate to say it but I am also coming around to the same view 

Having a blanked out weekend and nothing to watch this Thursday or Friday hasn't helped this week though 

I'd love the CC to be amazing but if we can't get the crowds.....

[up the robins]

We could always use the challenge cup matches for the top two tier clubs as a kids go free event or all season ticket holders £10. A bit better marketing by the RFL and the clubs and we can make it work surly if all the clubs run the same offer 

[Sports Prophet]

I must admit, I didn’t think this thread would make it to page 2 considering there were 2 other near on identical CC threads started in the last two weeks, but there you go, almost there.

Edited May 17, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Toby Chopra]

12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Lose Magic Weekend, have the SL clubs enter a round earlier (so no impact on total number of games) but fixed to be the away side if drawn against a lower ranked club.

That's all I would change right now. Everything else just feels too fiddly.

I'm not sure the Cup can be "saved" - beyond believing that the final absolutely can be salvaged as a day out with a bit of thought and investment.

That's a good balance of proposals.

Beyond those actions, the issues are more fundamental and relate to the FT/PT divide, and RL's place in British sport's ecosystem more generally, so making wider changes to "save" the cup would be treating the symptoms, not the cause.        

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, up the robins said:

I would make all the Super League clubs enter a round earlier and make it so  the first two rounds that the sl teams are in the draw if they pull out a lower league team the lower league team gets the home fixture.

For me the challenge cup is about much more than the top teams it's about the lower order teams getting some revenue from hosting a big club.

The Super League Teams  could and should do far more to help the lower leagues and grass roots rugby the sport cant survive with out them.

I know that if the Super League teams enter a round earlier they would probably be tempted to field weaker teams but that would and to the jeopardy of risking getting knocked out under estimating there opposition.

 

I agree with this. That has to be worth a try. Personally I'd love the opportunity to travel to a different ground for a couple of cup games. I imagine some Super League teams might take depleted squads to games depending on who they draw, but if anything that'd make it more interesting. 

[The British Lion]

My suggestions for what its worth: with lots of suggestions about how to make the season benefit the Challenge Cup.

Magic Weekend

- This is the opening round of the new Super League season. It has a firm purpose - to be a huge celebration of the opening of the new season. Big razzamatazz, current and popular band to be pre show. Fireworks, lightshow and visual entertainment pre event and match build up. (Not the standard of SL Grand Final which is still very poor really. In between each match, great entertainment (not the local fledging dance group!) - lets look to NFL and other American sport for inspiration!

- It is an event for the existing fans, but, a targeted event for assisting with the spread of the game to new areas. Being the first match of the season should allow existing fans to save and budget for this to travel.

- Millenium Stadium, Murrayfield, Dublin, Paris (for example) for the next 10 years. Closed roof at Millenium stadium for example will help create good conditions for watching the game. Have a real bonifide plan for building player participation, new semi pro clubs in the Welsh and other regions, and supported by the RFL. Player development pathways to existing Super League clubs for the next decade. The players don't count on the salary cap. I do NOT mean the current cut of assistance. Have an end in mind to build Welsh, Scottish, Irish, French etc (for example) clubs and player participation for the next decade with this event.

Start somewhere with the end in mind!

Regular Season

IMG forcibly cut the loop fixtures to just home and away. Get clubs to look to other revenue streams for the income loss. Get them out their comfort zone.

Northern Hemisphere Internationals Mid Season

Replace the loop fixtures with (in the beginning) a home nation series including England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France and invitational side The Exiles to start with (not the all stars!) - award each club with the players who are representing these nations from SL with finance rewards for each player they have representing. Use Grandparent rule 'WHILE' we have a bonifide strategy for growing player participation. Have an A team/development comp happening at the same time to underpin this. Fit these in the calendar as best as possible with Origin and SH International comps. Its not that hard.

Start somewhere with the end in mind!

SL play offs as normal (although the top 5 has always worked better imo)

I still think the the league leader from Championship and GF winner of championship should play off against the bottom 2 of SL for promotion. Thats exciting!

Challenge Cup.

Very simple for me. Its been brought forward this year which is the wrong decision. Move it back to August for the final.

- Ticket prices must be at least 50% cheaper in the opening rounds leading to the QF.

-  SL teams in the hat from round 2/3, and drawn away to lower league teams. If a SL team draws a SL team, then the draw for home and away operates as normal.

- SL teams when drawing championship/lower league clubs are only allowed to field a certain percentage of their first team squad. Incrementally rising each round if they progress up unto the QF.

- Challenge cup games must have a regular fluidity / consistency being played every other week, or every 3rd week, midweek even. Make it an attractional event for the local lower league clubs to invite their catchment area to. Make it an event!! Not a half cocked one. IMG show them how to do it. Schools for free, parents accompanying for a nominal fee. fill the stadium. Great prematch entertainment and build up. Make it more than the match itself.

- QF's and semi final to be played 2/3 weeks apart from each other. Wembley (or wherever - i personally prefer wembley for the Challenge Cup Final) to be played 2 weeks after the semi. It keeps the momentum. Make it an event, not just a final contested by 2 teams. (singing the national anthem and abide with me, with other current stuff they do is not making an event! But, it has a place) Again have a marketing strategy for London, attract new audience, local clubs given discount on tickets booked together. London amateur and semi pro clubs given visual advertisement, endorsement and inclusion in the event.

 

[LeytherRob]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Lose Magic Weekend, have the SL clubs enter a round earlier (so no impact on total number of games) but fixed to be the away side if drawn against a lower ranked club.

That's all I would change right now. Everything else just feels too fiddly.

I'm not sure the Cup can be "saved" - beyond believing that the final absolutely can be salvaged as a day out with a bit of thought and investment.

I'm a fan of this idea. This years comp produced some good games in the SL v Champ ties - the Sheffield/Wigan and Batley/Cas in particular but Fev also put up a very strong fight against Leigh. I think the system in the 2010's worked great and produced quite a lot of upsets and interest in the earlier rounds. Leigh's run of beating Salford, Wakefield than running Wire close in the QF in 2015 will forever be some of my favorite RL memories.

[gingerjon]

I am a sucker for a montage