Euro 2024

[gingerjon]

100 plus minutes of 'one for the purists' so far today.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

What a 90 minutes from Slovenia! It's great to see a smaller nation actually attacking and pushing forward rather than sitting right back and relying on the occasional counter attack. 

[Maximus Decimus]

39 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

What a 90 minutes from Slovenia! It's great to see a smaller nation actually attacking and pushing forward rather than sitting right back and relying on the occasional counter attack. 

210 minutes without conceding against two of the supposed best attacking teams in the tournament.

Penalties!

[Maximus Decimus]

Has that ever happened? All 3 missed for Slovenia and all 3 scored for Portugal.

When England fans feel pity for you, it must be bad.

[JohnM]

The Slovenians were just so weary after all that effort that they could not strike the penalty ball hard enough to beat the Portuguese goalkeeper. I think we're talking milliseconds here. Portugal just sucked all the energy out of Slovenia for 120 mins, who gave their all against a better side, stopping them from scoring but not good enough to score themselves, which is understandable.  

I realise that some England followers would rather see our guys play like Slovenia , running around a lot, running at the opposition all the time, never passing back to the goalkeeper, never taking a backwards step etc, a sort of football equivalent of the Protestant work ethic, but the same followers would be on England's back at the first counter-attack breakaway goal scored against us. 

Yes, we're tiresome to some. Yes, we're boring to some, but our win the other night has already entered the folklaw of England football. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The Slovenians were just so weary after all that effort that they could not strike the penalty ball hard enough to beat the Portuguese goalkeeper. I think we're talking milliseconds here. Portugal just sucked all the energy out of Slovenia for 120 mins, who gave their all against a better side, stopping them from scoring but not good enough to score themselves, which is understandable.  

I realise that some England followers would rather see our guys play like Slovenia , running around a lot, running at the opposition all the time, never passing back to the goalkeeper, never taking a backwards step etc, a sort of football equivalent of the Protestant work ethic, but the same followers would be on England's back at the first counter-attack breakaway goal scored against us. 

Yes, we're tiresome to some. Yes, we're boring to some, but our win the other night has already entered the folklaw of England football. 

I know this is a very obscure comparison but as people know I'm a massive snooker fan so let me make a comparison with that sport. 

In snooker, a heck of a lot of fans don't like Mark Selby because he is seen as a really boring, unentertaining player to watch, always preferring a safety over a slightly trickier pot, not caring too much about break building, playing slow and monotonous. However, Selby's style clearly works because he's won 4 World Titles and is one of the most decorated players in the sports history.

I think this is the same as what we are saying about England, yeah they might be playing boring, slow, unentertaining but something must be working because under Southgate we've had some of our best runs in tournaments in our history. Now, I'm not gonna pretend I approve, I'm one of Southgates biggest critics but if we win the euros I will happily admit that his boring style of play clearly works.

[Maximus Decimus]

27 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The Slovenians were just so weary after all that effort that they could not strike the penalty ball hard enough to beat the Portuguese goalkeeper. I think we're talking milliseconds here. Portugal just sucked all the energy out of Slovenia for 120 mins, who gave their all against a better side, stopping them from scoring but not good enough to score themselves, which is understandable.  

I realise that some England followers would rather see our guys play like Slovenia , running around a lot, running at the opposition all the time, never passing back to the goalkeeper, never taking a backwards step etc, a sort of football equivalent of the Protestant work ethic, but the same followers would be on England's back at the first counter-attack breakaway goal scored against us. 

Yes, we're tiresome to some. Yes, we're boring to some, but our win the other night has already entered the folklaw of England football. 

You raise a very good point. When England are aimlessly passing it around the back and reluctant to move forward, it's not because they're clueless. They understand far more than any of us do. It's because they can see the danger of what is there.

From a layman's POV, I don't understand why it is seen as safer keeping the ball around the defence than getting the ball up the field. You're always one mistake away from a very dangerous situation as evidenced by Pepe last night.

[Maximus Decimus]

1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I know this is a very obscure comparison but as people know I'm a massive snooker fan so let me make a comparison with that sport. 

In snooker, a heck of a lot of fans don't like Mark Selby because he is seen as a really boring, unentertaining player to watch, always preferring a safety over a slightly trickier pot, not caring too much about break building, playing slow and monotonous. However, Selby's style clearly works because he's won 4 World Titles and is one of the most decorated players in the sports history.

I think this is the same as what we are saying about England, yeah they might be playing boring, slow, unentertaining but something must be working because under Southgate we've had some of our best runs in tournaments in our history. Now, I'm not gonna pretend I approve, I'm one of Southgates biggest critics but if we win the euros I will happily admit that his boring style of play clearly works.

Southgate's whole tenure as England manager has certainly been one of cautious play. One slight caveat I would add to that, is that I'm not sure there's been a time in tournaments when we've ever been what you'd call an attacking side, maybe 2004?

Where I will disagree, is that I don't think this is par for the course for Southgate, and I don't agree that a win would vindicate him.

We've been objectively terrible this tournament so far, and while we've had poor performances in prior tournaments, we've also had half decent ones. This team playing like this now is miles away from a performance like a 4-0 vs Ukraine, 3-0 vs Nigeria/Wales or 6-2 against Iran, and especially not one where we outplayed the current World Champions. There is clearly something different this time. I think Southgate is trying to approach it the same way, but it isn't working the same.

As for the vindication issue, you can't win a game like we did on Sunday and then extrapolate anything about tactics or approach. We were 60 seconds from abject huniliation. We can win from here, but we either do so because something changes and we improve, or we continue to get lucky.

Edited July 2 by Maximus Decimus

[HawkMan]

Saturday 5pm 

England v Switzerland BBC1 or Hull KR v Catalans on Sky?

What to watch, or will channel hopping be going on?

Apparently RFL were asked about the HKR game and said flight times meant it couldn't be switched.

Edited July 2 by HawkMan

[JohnM]

3 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Saturday 5pm 

England v Switzerland BBC1 or Hull KR v Catalans on Sky?

What to watch, or will channel hopping be going on?

Apparently RFL were asked about the HKR game and said flight times meant it couldn't be switched.

England Vs Switzerland, since Sky Go doesn't work in Austria where we're on hols. Will watch on Austrian TV with commentary in foreign.

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

You raise a very good point. When England are aimlessly passing it around the back and reluctant to move forward, it's not because they're clueless. They understand far more than any of us do. It's because they can see the danger of what is there.

From a layman's POV, I don't understand why it is seen as safer keeping the ball around the defence than getting the ball up the field. You're always one mistake away from a very dangerous situation as evidenced by Pepe last night.

I agree.  If I were Southgate, I'd be telling them to hoof the ball down field at every opportunity. It's maybe about drawing the opposition forward , thining the defensive  line and giving our forwards room to run, like Foden does for City, but is not allowed to do for England. 

[Maximus Decimus]

Think the Dutch are making a bit of a statement here.

I know Austria and Switzerland have done well, and England have the players but surely they should be the favourites on this side of the draw currently? They are a more established nation that create a lot of chances.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

England Vs Switzerland, since Sky Go doesn't work in Austria where we're on hols. Will watch on Austrian TV with commentary in foreign.

Where are you on hols in Austria? 

[GeordieSaint]

I felt I was watching a different sport this evening with the Turkey - Austria game. So refreshing compared to watching England…

… superb game and one of the best saves I have ever seen.

[JohnM]

High up in the hills above Feldkirchen -in-Karnten, near Villach.

[JohnM]

19 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I felt I was watching a different sport this evening with the Turkey - Austria game. So refreshing compared to watching England…

… superb game and one of the best saves I have ever seen.

Well, exciting, yes. There certainly was a lot of running round like mad and hoofing of the ball. All that didn't help Austria, though, who too often played panic football (© Stevo) without success.

Yes, a superb last- minute save, thankfully, to save the neutral from suffering extra time and penalties.

I'm probably being a bit harsh with my comments but I try not to equate playing with lots of activity with good quality of football.

Edited July 2 by JohnM

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

High up in the hills above Feldkirchen -in-Karnten, near Villach.

I've never been down that part of Austria, I've been to Innsbruck, Salzburg and Vienna. I've looked at going to the mountains in the north of Slovenia before which I guess is part of the same range you're in. Hope you're enjoying yourself!

[The Hallucinating Goose]

A really enjoyable game tonight, at times not the most disciplined and organised of play but a really entertaining game nonetheless! I really did think Austria were gonna win this one so it was a heck of a surprise to see Turkey get through. 

[17 stone giant]

What a set of matches we now have for Friday and Saturday:

Germany v Spain

France v Portugal

England v Switzerland

Netherlands v Turkey

So apart from Italy, all the traditional 'big heads' got through their second round ties.

[JonM]

7 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I've never been down that part of Austria, I've been to Innsbruck, Salzburg and Vienna. I've looked at going to the mountains in the north of Slovenia before which I guess is part of the same range you're in. Hope you're enjoying yourself!

My wife and I did a train trip round central Europe, going from Venice to Slovenia before heading up to Budapest and into Slovakia. Had to change trains at Villach, which is quite a big railway junction. We had a couple of hours between trains, so thought we'd pop out of the station for a bite to eat. We were expecting some mitteleuropäische version of Crewe, but it was in fact lovely, one of the nicest places on the whole trip. Cafes were full of people having coffee and cake at 10:30 in the morning, so I'm not sure if anyone actually works there  

[gingerjon]

Stick this here

 

 

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Stick this here

 

 

Very nicely done. A lot of memories there, both good and bad.

[Maximus Decimus]

19 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Stick this here

 

 

It's probably the closest comparison to Sunday for pure release from the depths of despair.

It's also similar because on that toss of a coin we would have had another miserable failure, and who knows the whole Southgate era might never have got going.

We backed that up with our best performance of the tournament, so here's hoping for the same.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

A very even first half between Germany and Spain, not much in this at all, far too close to call really but home advantage might just get the Germans over the line.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Great goal from Spain!