Fri 20th Sept: SL: Leigh Leopards v St Helens KO 20:00

[Barry Badrinath]

11 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

 

Apparently I'm blocked by charnley on twitter that caught me off guard. No idea why

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's not as if Tomkins was on Sky at the start of the year laughing at Leigh or anything. Use it as internal motivation, but it comes across terribly when they secured it on the final game.

Did Wigan (1) only secure the League Leaders on the final day or (2) was it an accumulation of wins throughout the season? 

If your answer is (2) Wouldn't that apply to each club wherever they finished in the top 6 taking into account teams finishing on equal points but having a superior points difference?

[Dave T]

9 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Did Wigan (1) only secure the League Leaders on the final day or (2) was it an accumulation of wins throughout the season? 

If your answer is (2) Wouldn't that apply to each club wherever they finished in the top 6 taking into account teams finishing on equal points but having a superior points difference?

Surely you can see that isn't either or?

Both 1 and 2 are true. Doing only one of those options isn't enough.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Surely you can see that isn't either or?

Both 1 and 2 are true. Doing only one of those options isn't enough.

When Salford decided to send effectivly a reserve squad to Wigan for the final game, there were those who said they are giving the League Leaders to Wigan, A number of fans protested and said it is just not this game that has enabled Wigan to get to the top position as every game is just as important and is an accumulation of points that being a win in say round 6 is just as important as a win in round 27, so that applies in whichever position a club finishes.

What brought this up was Simkins who said that Leigh only proved the 'experts' wrong a few minutes before the end of Round 27.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

When Salford decided to send effectivly a reserve squad to Wigan for the final game, there were those who said they are giving the League Leaders to Wigan, A number of fans protested and said it is just not this game that has enabled Wigan to get to the top position as every game is just as important and is an accumulation of points that being a win in say round 6 is just as important as a win in round 27, so that applies in whichever position a club finishes.

What brought this up was Simkins who said that Leigh only proved the 'experts' wrong a few minutes before the end of Round 27.

Harry, with respect, your just mastering being awkward and frankly, quite difficult to discuss RL with at the moment.

Tomkins' point is dead easy to understand. Leigh made the playoffs in the last game of the season, winning a tight game against Saints that ended with a tense finish, which saw them make the playoffs by 1 league point. 

The predictions that Leigh would miss the playoffs were hardly outlandish, particularly when you consider that you won the same amount of games as Saints and Catalans who finished below you. Tomkins point is that it was very close, no more no less.

Had Leigh romped home and finished 2nd or so, maybe you could accuse the pundits of being miles out, but the pundits were only just out.

I dont mind what DB did tbh, I don't expect anything more or less from him, but let's not make out it was a wild prediction.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Harry, with respect, your just mastering being awkward and frankly, quite difficult to discuss RL with at the moment.

Tomkins' point is dead easy to understand. Leigh made the playoffs in the last game of the season, winning a tight game against Saints that ended with a tense finish, which saw them make the playoffs by 1 league point. 

The predictions that Leigh would miss the playoffs were hardly outlandish, particularly when you consider that you won the same amount of games as Saints and Catalans who finished below you. Tomkins point is that it was very close, no more no less.

Had Leigh romped home and finished 2nd or so, maybe you could accuse the pundits of being miles out, but the pundits were only just out.

I dont mind what DB did tbh, I don't expect anything more or less from him, but let's not make out it was a wild prediction.

Re your first paragraph Dave, I am not being awkward just presenting the facts as I see them, really I could turn it round on you and say you are just being obtuse in not recognising that every point gained no matter what round is just as important as every other, and just for clarity re your further statement yes Leigh did not win any more games than Saints and Catalan NOR did they lose as many games as Saints and Catalan.

As it happened the fact that Leigh had an horrendous first part of the season due to a very big injury situation making a lot of key players unavailable resulting in 1 win in 10 games was most likely what prevented the club picking up more points. Did the experts foresee that injury situation happening or were they just relying on their 'expertise' that the squad was not good enough in their predictions to finish in the top 6 which is more likely, we all know what has happened and how fortunes have changed with the availability of those player's 10 wins in 12 games.

It could so easily have been a wild prediction, these are the facts albeit they may not have panned out, but before you say I am difficult to discuss Rugby League with please consider there could be other implications to discuss before considering your version/thoughts are undeniably correct.

[Click]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Re your first paragraph Dave, I am not being awkward just presenting the facts as I see them, really I could turn it round on you and say you are just being obtuse in not recognising that every point gained no matter what round is just as important as every other, and just for clarity re your further statement yes Leigh did not win any more games than Saints and Catalan NOR did they lose as many games as Saints and Catalan.

As it happened the fact that Leigh had an horrendous first part of the season due to a very big injury situation making a lot of key players unavailable resulting in 1 win in 10 games was most likely what prevented the club picking up more points. Did the experts foresee that injury situation happening or were they just relying on their 'expertise' that the squad was not good enough in their predictions to finish in the top 6 which is more likely, we all know what has happened and how fortunes have changed with the availability of those player's 10 wins in 12 games.

It could so easily have been a wild prediction, these are the facts albeit they may not have panned out, but before you say I am difficult to discuss Rugby League with please consider there could be other implications to discuss before considering your version/thoughts are undeniably correct.

100% it could have been a wild prediction, turned out it wasn't. That is the point being made.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Click said:

100% it could have been a wild prediction, turned out it wasn't. That is the point being made.

Indeed, it was a perfectly reasonable predictions that was very nearly accurate. To treat that with a 'Ha, see, you were wrong!'  Is odd.

And you expect that from DB, he's a bit of a buffoon who craves attention, but at least he's out there trying to get column inches for his club. But for people in sensible discussion about it to parrot his point looks a bit silly.

[phiggins]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Indeed, it was a perfectly reasonable predictions that was very nearly accurate. To treat that with a 'Ha, see, you were wrong!'  Is odd.

And you expect that from DB, he's a bit of a buffoon who craves attention, but at least he's out there trying to get column inches for his club. But for people in sensible discussion about it to parrot his point looks a bit silly.

It was never a wild prediction, I think the fact that it was a unanimous one was the thing that took me by surprise at the time, and probably what prompted a pretty lame joke.

Think Tomkins took it a bit too seriously to be honest, but not sure he should’ve been in that role after starting playing again. Never great when a pundit’s first reaction to a game he’s analysing is “I’m gutted”
 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, phiggins said:

It was never a wild prediction, I think the fact that it was a unanimous one was the thing that took me by surprise at the time, and probably what prompted a pretty lame joke.

Think Tomkins took it a bit too seriously to be honest, but not sure he should’ve been in that role after starting playing again. Never great when a pundit’s first reaction to a game he’s analysing is “I’m gutted”
 

Agree on Tomkins. At least he's better than Wilkin, but I do think he is swaying I to similar territory to him at times.

When you look back at the predictions, I'm surprised how many plumped for Leeds to improve so much, but when you look at the table, it's pretty much unprecedented for teams to win 14 or 15 games and miss out on the playoffs.

[Just Browny]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

, it's pretty much unprecedented for teams to win 14 or 15 games and miss out on the playoffs.

It's a slightly under-commented point, but we've not had two teams who were such surefire wins as Hull and London have been for years. Has boosted everyone else's points tallies significantly.

[Dave T]

31 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

It's a slightly under-commented point, but we've not had two teams who were such surefire wins as Hull and London have been for years. Has boosted everyone else's points tallies significantly.

Yes, it's a good point.

[phiggins]

49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Agree on Tomkins. At least he's better than Wilkin, but I do think he is swaying I to similar territory to him at times.

I did start to think that he was in danger of making Wilkin the rational pundit, and I’m not sure I’m ready to be in that world 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I did start to think that he was in danger of making Wilkin the rational pundit, and I’m not sure I’m ready to be in that world 

Don't worry, I think Wilkin has plenty in him yet, he is getting worse week on week!

[MrIzzard]

8 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Re your first paragraph Dave, I am not being awkward just presenting the facts as I see them, really I could turn it round on you and say you are just being obtuse in not recognising that every point gained no matter what round is just as important as every other, and just for clarity re your further statement yes Leigh did not win any more games than Saints and Catalan NOR did they lose as many games as Saints and Catalan.

As it happened the fact that Leigh had an horrendous first part of the season due to a very big injury situation making a lot of key players unavailable resulting in 1 win in 10 games was most likely what prevented the club picking up more points. Did the experts foresee that injury situation happening or were they just relying on their 'expertise' that the squad was not good enough in their predictions to finish in the top 6 which is more likely, we all know what has happened and how fortunes have changed with the availability of those player's 10 wins in 12 games.

It could so easily have been a wild prediction, these are the facts albeit they may not have panned out, but before you say I am difficult to discuss Rugby League with please consider there could be other implications to discuss before considering your version/thoughts are undeniably correct.

This is case of equality where all men are equal but Dave t is more equal than anyone else. 

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, MrIzzard said:

This is case of equality where all men are equal but Dave t is more equal than anyone else. 

Excellent post. 

[Damien]

55 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Don't worry, I think Wilkin has plenty in him yet, he is getting worse week on week!

Isn't he just? It's like he is trying to outdo himself every week.

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, Dave T said:

Indeed, it was a perfectly reasonable predictions that was very nearly accurate. To treat that with a 'Ha, see, you were wrong!'  Is odd.

And you expect that from DB, he's a bit of a buffoon who craves attention, but at least he's out there trying to get column inches for his club. But for people in sensible discussion about it to parrot his point looks a bit silly.

Then why not answer the points I made, especially the one were initially the 'experts' must have considered that the Leopards squad - *and seemingly yours - would not be good enough to finish in the top 6, I would say they proved with a near full compliment of player's available they could/would have secured a top 6 spot well before before the last game.

But never mind it helps theirs and yours 'expert' analysis.

*and seemingly your opinion 

Edited September 23 by Harry Stottle

[Click]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Then why not answer the points I made, especially the one were initially the 'experts' must have considered that the Leopards squad - and seemingly yours - would not be good enough to finish in the top 6, I would say they proved with a near full compliment of player's available they could/would have secured a top 6 spot well before before the last game.

But never mind it helps theirs and yours 'expert' analysis.

That is pretty irrelevant as no team has a near full compliment of players week in week out.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Click said:

That is pretty irrelevant as no team has a near full compliment of players week in week out.

Quite true Click, but also not many had so many players unavailable for large parts of the season.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Click said:

That is pretty irrelevant as no team has a near full compliment of players week in week out.

But what is relevant is before a ball was kicked ALL the experts must have considered the Leopards squad was not good enough, my point being it really was good enough, and proved as such.

[phiggins]

Regardless of predictions, if you'd told me at the start of the season that we'd match last season's finish I would've snatched your hand off. If you'd have told me we'd do it with Ipape missing 10 games, Asiata missing 11 as well as Mulhern missing 7, I would have laughed at you.

A very good achievement, regardless of what happens next week. Though I can see a drop off in intensity happening, making the 6 has felt like the end goal for so long now, might be difficult to get themselves back up to that level against a well rested team. Almost like after the cup final last year.

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Then why not answer the points I made, especially the one were initially the 'experts' must have considered that the Leopards squad - *and seemingly yours - would not be good enough to finish in the top 6, I would say they proved with a near full compliment of player's available they could/would have secured a top 6 spot well before before the last game.

But never mind it helps theirs and yours 'expert' analysis.

*and seemingly your opinion 

This is exactly what I mean about you being difficult to discuss with - you've literally made up a prediction for me and asked me to justify it.

That's really weird behaviour Harry.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This is exactly what I mean about you being difficult to discuss with - you've literally made up a prediction for me and asked me to justify it.

That's really weird behaviour Harry.

The way you have worded your replies it just seems that you agree with the 'experts' in what could only be an analysis of the Leigh squad not being good enough for a top 6 finish this season, they could not possibly have foreseen how the injury situation would affect the results, apologies if I misinterpreted you.

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The way you have worded your replies it just seems that you agree with the 'experts' in what could only be an analysis of the Leigh squad not being good enough for a top 6 finish this season, they could not possibly have foreseen how the injury situation would affect the results, apologies if I misinterpreted you.

I've been quite clear that I don't think it was an outlandish prediction. That's not the same as me making that prediction.

Personally I don't tend to go with predictions, i don't think it's easy, and they are generally forgotten about a few weeks later, so not even fun. But if I was, I doubt I'd have gone for Saints at 6th and Catalans missing out on the playoffs. I wouldn't  have predicted Wire in 3rd either. Its sport, a hell of a lot happens in a season.

In reality, I don't think there is much between 4th and 8th, a bit of luck here and there and those positions change a fair bit.

 

Edited September 23 by Dave T