England v Australia 2025 - coming to the UK!

[WN83]

8 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Are the RFL going to charge the Aussies for England's travels expenses from their hotel to the ground on match day? 

Going off budget reductions in recent years, they might be best doing or the England players will be on the 658 bus. 

[Damien]

54 minutes ago, Hopie said:

I'd rather we went to the NE than the NW for an opening test but if we are stuck with the NW crowds Wigan and Bolton are both pretty small stadia even taking into account that fans are less likely to show up west of the pennines, Man City's ground would be the ideal size we should be aiming to fill.

That's not true though. Fans West of the Pennines have long turned up for internationals like this. They haven't turned up for 3 RLWC games in the same town or a ridiculous amount in the same 10 mile spread, or minor mid week games in Leigh, Salford or Warrington, but that's all on the RFL as much as anything. The same would apply in Yorkshire too if the RFL did this.

Edited November 6, 2024 by Damien

[Hopie]

39 minutes ago, Damien said:

That's not true though. Fans West of the Pennines have long turned up for internationals like this. They haven't turned up for 3 RLWC games in the same town or a ridiculous amount in the same 10 mile spread, or minor mid week games in Leigh, Salford or Warrington, but that's all on the RFL as much as anything. The same would apply in Yorkshire too if the RFL did this.

Leeds always attracts the best crowds in recent years, the highest crowds of each of the recent series 2018, 2023, 2024 (even for "dead rubber" third tests) were in Leeds. Headingley has had its share of less attractive internationals over the years but still pulls in the fans. I was just pointing out that in my scenario of one test in the heartlands that I felt Leeds had earned an Ashes test on that basis. 

 

[Damien]

43 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Leeds always attracts the best crowds in recent years, the highest crowds of each of the recent series 2018, 2023, 2024 (even for "dead rubber" third tests) were in Leeds. Headingley has had its share of less attractive internationals over the years but still pulls in the fans. I was just pointing out that in my scenario of one test in the heartlands that I felt Leeds had earned an Ashes test on that basis. 

Not sure the years you quote are like for like really and come with massive caveats. Swap Wigan and Leeds around this year and I'm certain Wigan would have drawn a bigger crowd with a weeks more sales and after the BBC coverage of the first. As it was there was next to nothing in it. Last year Saints was plainly the wrong location after all the games they had in the RLWC the year before. 2018 was at Anfield after many fans said they wouldn't go back there after the 2016 4 Nations final.

Every time we have had a test series that has included Elland Road and Old Trafford Old Trafford has always been the higher crowd. World Cup finals at Old Trafford have always got good crowds despite no England presence. We simply haven't played as England or GB at major Football ground in the North West in the last couple of decades, bar the one at Anfield that I covered, to make such a claim.

 

Edited November 6, 2024 by Damien

[M j M]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Swap Wigan and Leeds around this year and I'm certain Wigan would have drawn a bigger crowd with a weeks more sales and after the BBC coverage of the first. As it was there was next to nothing in it.

 

What would the Wigan crowd have been without the Wigan season ticket holder giveaway? Or the Leeds one with an equivalent?

[Damien]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

What would the Wigan crowd have been without the Wigan season ticket holder giveaway? Or the Leeds one with an equivalent?

Indeed and that was the point wasn't it? It is stupid to make sweeping statements when there are so many variables and especially when you are basing it on venues and teams that are way off what we should be aiming for when it comes to an Ashes series..

[WN83]

In fairness, it is more expensive for fans on this side of the Pennines to follow Rugby League, with our sides playing in play off games It's only right the Yorkshire based fans pick up the International based slack. 

Bring on the War of the Roses (in Yorkshire). 

 

[Cheadle Leyther]

We should be trying to emulate the famous tour of 1990:-

1st test Wembley won 19-12, 54,569

2nd test Old Trafford Lost 10-14, 46,615 (the ground a lot smaller then, capacity 55,000 but further reduced due to safety issues)

3rd test Elland Road Lost 0-14, 32,500

I’ll always remember the Old Trafford test, 10-10 in injury time, break out by Ricky Stuart resulting in BBC Mal Meninga sliding over for the winning try- heart breaking!!

[WN83]

6 minutes ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

We should be trying to emulate the famous tour of 1990:-

1st test Wembley won 19-12, 54,569

2nd test Old Trafford Lost 10-14, 46,615 (the ground a lot smaller then, capacity 55,000 but further reduced due to safety issues)

3rd test Elland Road Lost 0-14, 32,500

I’ll always remember the Old Trafford test, 10-10 in injury time, break out by Ricky Stuart resulting in BBC Mal Meninga sliding over for the winning try- heart breaking!!

I'd go with Spurs over Wembley but Elland Road and Old Trafford would be my other two. I'd make OT the 3rd test and take the gamble of it being a decider. If it were that, we'd get a huge crowd. I guess they don't think they're in the financial position to gamble though if they're going for Wigan. They'll probably make good money on 25,000 at Wigan but would likely lose money on 25,000 at Old Trafford. 

I can easily live with Wigan, Wembley and Elland Road though as long as we get it on. 

[Jack GB]

32 minutes ago, WN83 said:

I'd go with Spurs over Wembley but Elland Road and Old Trafford would be my other two. I'd make OT the 3rd test and take the gamble of it being a decider. If it were that, we'd get a huge crowd. I guess they don't think they're in the financial position to gamble though if they're going for Wigan. They'll probably make good money on 25,000 at Wigan but would likely lose money on 25,000 at Old Trafford. 

I can easily live with Wigan, Wembley and Elland Road though as long as we get it on. 

I could also live with Wigan - Wembley(but prefer spurs as never been!) and Elland Rd - but would love to see New Everton/Ethiad, Wembley/Spurs, Elland Rd. 

It would be interesting to see the math in terms of Wigan vs say Etihad/New Everton - would people be willing to pay more to visit Etihad/Everton, would 25k at Wigan definitely bring a higher profit than say 30/35 at Etihad/Everton etc

I for sure would be more inclined to go (and invite a group of mates for a day out) to Etihad/Everton over Wigan due to my perception of the event status (and no offence meant to Wigan and Brick stadium!), full day out etc 

Edited November 6, 2024 by Jack GB

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

I don’t think Headingley should be completely out of the question. If coupled with a Spurs and Man City as an example, it guarantees a full price sell out, with strong corporate sales and low costs and so profit would be big at Headingley whilst also creating demand for other two games by virtue of the sell out.

It absolutely should be out of the question. 

[Cheadle Leyther]

I would go Spurs, Old Trafford/Etihad and going for broke Newcastle.

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Not sure the years you quote are like for like really and come with massive caveats. Swap Wigan and Leeds around this year and I'm certain Wigan would have drawn a bigger crowd with a weeks more sales and after the BBC coverage of the first. As it was there was next to nothing in it. Last year Saints was plainly the wrong location after all the games they had in the RLWC the year before. 2018 was at Anfield after many fans said they wouldn't go back there after the 2016 4 Nations final.

Every time we have had a test series that has included Elland Road and Old Trafford Old Trafford has always been the higher crowd. World Cup finals at Old Trafford have always got good crowds despite no England presence. We simply haven't played as England or GB at major Football ground in the North West in the last couple of decades, bar the one at Anfield that I covered, to make such a claim.

 

Nothing is like for like as we haven't played an Ashes series since 2003, but those are representative of a base level for interest in international Rugby League right now and a better indicator than crowds you mention which are from the 90s or before. That England/GB games don't get held in large stadia in the NW, or the planned ground in the NW for the last cancelled ashes had the lowest capacity points towards the market/crowds in that area.

There is no evidence to support your assertion that Wigan would outsell Headingley, Headingley seats were sold out before the first test so the BBC coverage had a limited impact, and the caveats you apply to St Helens and Anfield also apply to Leeds (multiple RLWC matches) and Elland Road (poor leg room etc). 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Hopie said:

Nothing is like for like as we haven't played an Ashes series since 2003, but those are representative of a base level for interest in international Rugby League right now and a better indicator than crowds you mention which are from the 90s or before. That England/GB games don't get held in large stadia in the NW, or the planned ground in the NW for the last cancelled ashes had the lowest capacity points towards the market/crowds in that area.

There is no evidence to support your assertion that Wigan would outsell Headingley, Headingley seats were sold out before the first test so the BBC coverage had a limited impact, and the caveats you apply to St Helens and Anfield also apply to Leeds (multiple RLWC matches) and Elland Road (poor leg room etc). 

This is all baseless and you are purposely distorting reality of what has happened and why. I'm not going to go round in circles but just to pick up on this point in bold, this ain't true either. All this points towards is not being able to book a suitable stadium in the North West in the middle of the Football season.

[wroteforluck87]

Fingers crossed this comes to fruition as me and my lad have penciled this in as a boys day out, the powers that be seem to be keen on a London date at a big stadium for me if you want to put a respectable crowd in Wembley, Tottenham or West Ham they'll need to arrange it as soon as possible and push it hard at the marketing stage, I also like the idea of Etihad or Everton's new ground aswell..

And now we wait

[Vyvyan]

Please not Elland Rd.  It's uncomfortable and I don't think we've won a test there since 1989.

[sam4731]

What I fear is that the RFL goes for Bolton as they did last time round. Absolutely awful idea.

[Hopie]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

This is all baseless and you are purposely distorting reality of what has happened and why. I'm not going to go round in circles but just to pick up on this point in bold, this ain't true either. All this points towards is not being able to book a suitable stadium in the North West in the middle of the Football season.

Ah yes, the football season barrier that meant we also booked Elland Road and Tottenham's stadium

[DI Keith Fowler]

3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

What I fear is that the RFL goes for Bolton as they did last time round. Absolutely awful idea.

It's hard to find a suitable medium sized stadium in the North West to be fair. 

We could try for Everton's new ground if it's ready, but that would be dependent on them starting the fit out rather than just installing blue seats to get weathered and damaged a year before opening to make it look finished.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Ah yes, the football season barrier that meant we also booked Elland Road and Tottenham's stadium

You do realise all clubs are different don't you? That barrier is why we have had no internationals at the Etihad since we played Australia there and is why we had no Magic in Newcastle last year.

[sam4731]

7 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

It's hard to find a suitable medium sized stadium in the North West to be fair. 

We could try for Everton's new ground if it's ready, but that would be dependent on them starting the fit out rather than just installing blue seats to get weathered and damaged a year before opening to make it look finished.

Surely City has to be the only candidate. OT if we wanna take a punt.

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

It's hard to find a suitable medium sized stadium in the North West to be fair. 

We could try for Everton's new ground if it's ready, but that would be dependent on them starting the fit out rather than just installing blue seats to get weathered and damaged a year before opening to make it look finished.

I do think that is probably why Bolton was chosen.

Man City have always said no to games during the Football season since we played Australia there years ago. Goodison Park wasn't suitable and old. Anfield copped loads of criticism when RL was played there the last couple of times and Liverpool hardly need the money. Even at that time Wigan was probably out with the Football club owners at that time.

Old Trafford has always been amenable but I can understand the RFL being cautious of a 75k venue when we were at Spurs and Elland Road too.

Edited November 6, 2024 by Damien

[Odsal Outlaw]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

It absolutely should be out of the question. 

Understand why you say that. But I am genuinely interested in the economics of a full price Headingley sell out and how many we’d need to get at Elland Rd to deliver the same financial return. And if we sat here in 12m time with a sellout at Spurs, Man City and Headingley with record profits I’d take it. But also completely get the point that we should consider Headingley too small.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

Understand why you say that. But I am genuinely interested in the economics of a full price Headingley sell out and how many we’d need to get at Elland Rd to deliver the same financial return. And if we sat here in 12m time with a sellout at Spurs, Man City and Headingley with record profits I’d take it. But also completely get the point that we should consider Headingley too small.

Elland Road should be more or less double the crowd of Headingley. Close to another 20k should be at least another £500k in revenue. Its an absolute no brainer to play at Elland Road before Headingley.

Headingley isn't even the sort of ground we should be contemplating for a match against a top tier nation, i.e Australia or NZ, if we want to sell international RL as the pinnacle. 

[Odsal Outlaw]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Elland Road should be more or less double the crowd of Headingley. Close to another 20k should be at least another £500k in revenue. Its an absolute no brainer to play at Elland Road before Headingley.

Headingley isn't even the sort of ground we should be contemplating for a match against a top tier nation, i.e Australia or NZ, if we want to sell international RL as the pinnacle. 

Yes I do see this argument. Altho for NZ I would definitely consider it for same logic stated originally on finances. 
 

anyway, hopefully I can go to all 3 next year wherever they are. Would defo love to be heading to Wembley!