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Ed Miliband


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#101 ckn

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:24 AM

It's in the Daily Mail, it must be true :rolleyes:

 

Attracting migrant workers to this country is not a new or necessarily bad thing, especially if there is a skills shortage or demand for labour.

It's interesting that in the current UKBA skills shortage list is "mining engineer"...


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#102 ckn

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

It's in the Daily Mail, it must be true :rolleyes:

 

Attracting migrant workers to this country is not a new or necessarily bad thing, especially if there is a skills shortage or demand for labour.

Also, it's depressing how easy it is to get a visa to work here if you're a big company who wants to cut the salary level for qualified professionals.  The trick:

- phase 1: advertise a qualified professional job through one agency for one advert at close to minimum wage, make sure that the requirements are so high that you get no genuine applicants.

- phase 2: go to the UKBA with genuine application statistics, including the seriously underqualified chancers.  They'll then rubber-stamp the visa form citing skills shortage.

- phase 3: hire a foreign national, usually someone from India, on exactly the same wage as the advert to keep UKBA happy but through an agency who claws most of that back through "compulsory" accommodation and utilities charges while putting up about 10 people in a 4 bedroom house.

- phase 4: when said foreign national gets close to the point that they can apply for permanent residency, cancel their contract and send them home.

- phase 5: check whether visa pre-approval allows for substitution and length of time.  If still valid, go to phase 3.  If not valid, go to phase 1.

 

For the largest part these days "attracting immigrant workers" usually means "here's a good way to cut our wage bill by far more than half"

 

It's even more depressing how persistent pressure on farmers to cut costs to big supermarkets means that they're even less likely to pay anywhere near minimum wage for fruit and veggie pickers.


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#103 Marauder

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:37 AM

Also, it's depressing how easy it is to get a visa to work here if you're a big company who wants to cut the salary level for qualified professionals.  The trick:

- phase 1: advertise a qualified professional job through one agency for one advert at close to minimum wage, make sure that the requirements are so high that you get no genuine applicants.

- phase 2: go to the UKBA with genuine application statistics, including the seriously underqualified chancers.  They'll then rubber-stamp the visa form citing skills shortage.

- phase 3: hire a foreign national, usually someone from India, on exactly the same wage as the advert to keep UKBA happy but through an agency who claws most of that back through "compulsory" accommodation and utilities charges while putting up about 10 people in a 4 bedroom house.

- phase 4: when said foreign national gets close to the point that they can apply for permanent residency, cancel their contract and send them home.

- phase 5: check whether visa pre-approval allows for substitution and length of time.  If still valid, go to phase 3.  If not valid, go to phase 1.

 

For the largest part these days "attracting immigrant workers" usually means "here's a good way to cut our wage bill by far more than half"

 

It's even more depressing how persistent pressure on farmers to cut costs to big supermarkets means that they're even less likely to pay anywhere near minimum wage for fruit and veggie pickers.

This system does not only apply to qualified professionasl either, the jobs the working class did at the start of their working life have all been taken in the same way.


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#104 John Drake

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:27 PM

I've shifted about 3 pages worth of off-topic stuff about Michael Gove and the education system into a new thread, here.

http://www.totalrl.c...n-michael-gove/

 

Please keep this one on topic: Ed Miliband.

 

Thanks


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#105 JohnM

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:53 PM

http://www.independe...st-8617567.html



#106 Wolford6

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

Let's not have any free-thinking working class folks in the Labour Party.

<_<

 

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#107 ckn

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:45 AM

Let's not have any free-thinking working class folks in the Labour Party.

<_<

 

http://order-order.c...nie-graf-rebel/

Suspended from the party since then.

 

Since when have Councillors had any duty to be even civil to their local MP, even if the same party?  An MP isn't the leader of a local constituency association.  A fairly poor state of affairs.  I hope he just turns independent and does his best for his ward and let's hope the local residents don't just vote for a red rosette.


Edit:  a bit more detail on the story from the Huff Post.


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#108 Steve May

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:06 AM

Let's not have any free-thinking working class folks in the Labour Party.

<_<

 

http://order-order.c...nie-graf-rebel/

 

 

I bet you any money you like there's a bigger story behind that e-mail of him being a annoying person for ages .

 

 

There's being free-thinking and there's being a pain in the ######. 


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#109 ckn

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:13 AM

I bet you any money you like there's a bigger story behind that e-mail of him being a annoying person for ages .

 

 

There's being free-thinking and there's being a pain in the ######. 

Aye, that's true and there are duties and responsibilities if you accept the role of being an elected member of a political party.  The story in today's Liverpool Echo looks like he was resented by a number of people there, probably a cocky little sod who got under the skin of the established councillors, all probably at least twice his age.  He probably wouldn't just shut up and do as he was told.  The days of some Labour councillors and MPs being mavericks seems to be finally over.


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#110 Steve May

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:14 AM

Suspended from the party since then.

 

Since when have Councillors had any duty to be even civil to their local MP, even if the same party?  An MP isn't the leader of a local constituency association.  A fairly poor state of affairs.  I hope he just turns independent and does his best for his ward and let's hope the local residents don't just vote for a red rosette.

 

You (and I) don't know what's happened.

 

It may well be that the young man is no great loss.  

 

I've personally had an interesting experience when someone in a voluntary organisation went rogue and it ended when the person concerned flounced off in a huff, much to to the relief of everyone.  That person's bizarre behaviour alienated lots of people and set the whole organisation back by two years at least.

 

A difficult person with an agenda can destroy a voluntary organisation that depends on good will in a very short space of time.  Been there, got the scars.

 

Maybe this isn't the case though.  I don't know.


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#111 Steve May

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

He probably wouldn't just shut up and do as he was told.  The days of some Labour councillors and MPs being mavericks seems to be finally over.

 

Being a maverick with ideas and concepts is fine, imagining you're a maverick when you're actually being a needy, destructive ######wit is another thing altogether.


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#112 ckn

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

Being a maverick with ideas and concepts is fine, imagining you're a maverick when you're actually being a needy, destructive ######wit is another thing altogether.

I do struggle with the concept that anyone aged 18 can have enough life experience to be an effective councillor.  The range of things I've had to deal with range from truly daft to deeply troubling and life threatening, I'd have been wholly incapable of handling many of them at 30, never mind 18.

 

That said, it does seem to have been dealt with very, very poorly.  Surely the most effective way to deal with him would be to have accepted his notice that he wouldn't stand again in 2015 that he gave in April and then refuse to let him change his mind by choosing someone else for the role in advance.  That way, he'd have looked like a petulant child if he had a tantrum about them not allowing him to change his mind.  There were so many better ways to do it than have the MP appear as if she's the overbearing boss.


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#113 Steve May

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:57 AM

I do struggle with the concept that anyone aged 18 can have enough life experience to be an effective councillor.  The range of things I've had to deal with range from truly daft to deeply troubling and life threatening, I'd have been wholly incapable of handling many of them at 30, never mind 18.

 

That said, it does seem to have been dealt with very, very poorly.  Surely the most effective way to deal with him would be to have accepted his notice that he wouldn't stand again in 2015 that he gave in April and then refuse to let him change his mind by choosing someone else for the role in advance.  That way, he'd have looked like a petulant child if he had a tantrum about them not allowing him to change his mind.  There were so many better ways to do it than have the MP appear as if she's the overbearing boss.

 

 

 

If I'm right about the situation, your calm, rational approach to the problem would get you nowhere.

 

Like I say, been there got the scars.


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#114 gingerjon

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:58 AM

I do struggle with the concept that anyone aged 18 can have enough life experience to be an effective councillor.  The range of things I've had to deal with range from truly daft to deeply troubling and life threatening, I'd have been wholly incapable of handling many of them at 30, never mind 18.

 

That said, it does seem to have been dealt with very, very poorly.  Surely the most effective way to deal with him would be to have accepted his notice that he wouldn't stand again in 2015 that he gave in April and then refuse to let him change his mind by choosing someone else for the role in advance.  That way, he'd have looked like a petulant child if he had a tantrum about them not allowing him to change his mind.  There were so many better ways to do it than have the MP appear as if she's the overbearing boss.

 

The press is unlikely to be being particular balanced in the reporting though.


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#115 JohnM

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

tax avoidance?



#116 ckn

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:00 PM

tax avoidance?

I don't see much wrong with this.  How he wants to donate to Labour is up to him.  This way he can donate substantially more for the same outlay from him.


Also, contrary to the holier-than-thou attitude being taken by the Coalition, there's absolutely nothing wrong with tax avoidance.  Is it legal?  Yes.  Is it deliberately exploiting a tax law loophole?  No.

 

In fact, if he waited until April next year then he could have made an even more tax efficient saving as that's when the Coalition's new laws on corporate share donations and gifts come into force, reducing the tax burden on such gifts.  The Chancellor can't exactly complain about this being immoral if he's changing the tax laws so that it's even more tax efficient to use, neither can he complain that it's being exploited as that's exactly why the laws are written in such a way.  If he did change the laws to equalise this tax with standard income tax rates then he'd be finding that more than a few Tory donors would be telling him to go forth and multiply.


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#117 JohnM

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

I think the point is that Miliband railed against other perfectly legal tax avoiders only last week. 



#118 Wolford6

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

Let's not forget the two-facedness of Margaret Hodge on the tax issue. She is an absolute joke.

 

 

http://www.telegraph...-in-the-UK.html

 

 

http://www.independe...ed-8633014.html


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#119 ckn

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:41 PM

I think the point is that Miliband railed against other perfectly legal tax avoiders only last week. 

 

 

Let's not forget the two-facedness of Margaret Hodge on the tax issue. She is an absolute joke.

 

 

http://www.telegraph...-in-the-UK.html

 

 

http://www.independe...ed-8633014.html

Two posts, single reply:

 

What? A politician being two faced?  Never... ;)


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#120 WearyRhino

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:31 PM

After leaving the Labour Party in 1994 following 12 years as an active member, I was seriously considering rejoining the party. However, todays policy announcements on welfare, the hypocritical acceptance of a tax avoiding donation, hot on the heels of Ball's unilateral decision to abandon the principle of universal benefits, I am now further away from that decision than since Blair called an illegal war. I would think there are also many members tearing up their membership cards.

How the party think that there is electoral advantage in trying to be nastier than the Tories and forgetting the reasons why their core support vote Labour is beyond me. Despite deep emotional ties to the party I'm not sure I could even stomach voting Labour at the moment. Very sad and very angry.

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