The latest DR twist

[DoubleD]

Football doesnt have a middle 8 where the loaner and loanee could meet

 

They can meet and do in Cup competition though so don't understand your point? You also have Premier League clubs loaning players to other premier league clubs so similarly they will meet. People need to get over this, it's becoming very tedious how narrow minded people are.

[sweaty craiq]

I dont see any problem with loans of a month or more, its DR that is the problem especially when you can play for 3 teams in 3 weeks. If Leeds said to Hunslet here you can have delaney for a month/season then great.

[redjonn]

They can meet and do in Cup competition though so don't understand your point? You also have Premier League clubs loaning players to other premier league clubs so similarly they will meet. People need to get over this, it's becoming very tedious how narrow minded people are.

 

I don't mind either way but your point about cup competition for me misses the point, in that cup competitions don't impact P&R.  It may be tedious and narrow minded for some but I thought the persons comment valid.

[Railway End]

Players that aren't ready for SL won't be playing in SL. So where do they play?

If we want to get as many players as possible to to standard, they need to play in as high a standard as possible. They are more than talented enough to play in the Championship. But by signing for a Championship club, they would have to most likely go part time, so a dual system allows talented young players to stay full time AND take part in a higher level competition.

In football, tonnes of players who aren't ready for the Premier League go and play in the Championship on loan.

In theory this is all true but in Rugby League reality it's a total mess.

DR players in some cases turn up on matchday and in some cases are never seen again by the Championship club once the match has ended. The reason why? The SL team wants to give their player game time but not in their own first team. Meanwhile a player for the Championship club is deprived playing time and the associated loss of team moral this creates.

I would scrap DR and just have a loan system with a minimum loan period of 8 Games and a maximum of 2 loan players at any club at any one time.

Are the SL teams not getting increased SKY money now whilst the salary cap has remained relatively static? What now is the problem with running an older age Academy team with a certain number of older players permitted to play?

[Krytensmate]

What I would suggest is SL clubs DR with a Championship club on a reserve/u 21s competition , splitting the running costs , allowing juniors to develop and giving match fitness to players returning from injury

[DoubleD]

In theory this is all true but in Rugby League reality it's a total mess.

DR players in some cases turn up on matchday and in some cases are never seen again by the Championship club once the match has ended. The reason why? The SL team wants to give their player game time but not in their own first team. Meanwhile a player for the Championship club is deprived playing time and the associated loss of team moral this creates.

I would scrap DR and just have a loan system with a minimum loan period of 8 Games and a maximum of 2 loan players at any club at any one time.

Are the SL teams not getting increased SKY money now whilst the salary cap has remained relatively static? What now is the problem with running an older age Academy team with a certain number of older players permitted to play?

 

Whilst I agree that is a good suggestion, for academy to be back to u20s and allow 3 overage players, I don't see why people are grumbling about DR. It takes 2 teams to tango - if the Championship clubs didn't want the DR players, they don't have to take them. Any Championship club can partake if they wish so it's not like someone's being unfairly disadvantaged. Move on, it's boring now

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

- if the Championship clubs didn't want the DR players, they don't have to take them. ..

 

Of course they don't.....

[Wellsy4HullFC]

In theory this is all true but in Rugby League reality it's a total mess.

DR players in some cases turn up on matchday and in some cases are never seen again by the Championship club once the match has ended. The reason why? The SL team wants to give their player game time but not in their own first team. Meanwhile a player for the Championship club is deprived playing time and the associated loss of team moral this creates.

Then surely that is for the judgement of the coach to decide whether or not playing that player would disrupt morale and negotiate accordingly? If they don't agree to terms, they don't have to make an agreement.

I would scrap DR and just have a loan system with a minimum loan period of 8 Games and a maximum of 2 loan players at any club at any one time.

Are the SL teams not getting increased SKY money now whilst the salary cap has remained relatively static? What now is the problem with running an older age Academy team with a certain number of older players permitted to play?

They could, but would that produce a better standard of player? If the answer is no, then it's not really a solution.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I don't mind either way but your point about cup competition for me misses the point, in that cup competitions don't impact P&R. It may be tedious and narrow minded for some but I thought the persons comment valid.

Do clubs not loan players to other clubs in their league that could affect relegation? Even if they don't compete directly, the wins those clubs pick up could have an effect.

[Blind side johnny]

I don't see how you have quoted that post and come to that conclusion?

Instead of looking for any reason to disagree, why don't you look at the other point of view? You might just begin to understand their point.

Players that aren't ready for SL won't be playing in SL. So where do they play?

If we want to get as many players as possible to to standard, they need to play in as high a standard as possible. They are more than talented enough to play in the Championship. But by signing for a Championship club, they would have to most likely go part time, so a dual system allows talented young players to stay full time AND take part in a higher level competition.

In football, tonnes of players who aren't ready for the Premier League go and play in the Championship on loan.

 

 

I see that your argument, like most on here, is purely from a SL perspective, ergo if it benefits us then it will benefit the sport as a whole.

 

D/R is causing significant disillusionment amongst many Championship clubs' followers and a further move towards feeder teams would end most peoples' interest entirely. Believe it or not we don't just watch the shirts but the people who play in them.

 

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[Blind side johnny]

Who ' boomed and went bust ' ?

 

 

Oldham, Workington, Halifax.........

 

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[The Parksider]

I see that your argument, like most on here, is purely from a SL perspective, ergo if it benefits us then it will benefit the sport as a whole.

 

D/R is causing significant disillusionment amongst many Championship clubs' followers and a further move towards feeder teams would end most peoples' interest entirely. Believe it or not we don't just watch the shirts but the people who play in them.

 

.

 

It's a very good post that and very true.

 

If you want your club to win a game at any cost fine, but most fans I would think want to cheer on their own players. It's a hard thing to do when they are players of other clubs.

 

It may be some players become your players like Jimmy Watson of Leeds who came DR did well and eventually signed, but when Bailey, Singleton. McShane and Clarkson are galloping around in Hunslet shirts you know your club isn't serious about doing anything but survive.

 

Certainly I watched my club many times when they were as low down the order as we are now, but all the players were our players committed to our cause.

 

It's a matter of integrity and no, dual reg isn't a win win thing.....

[Krytensmate]

Oldham, Workington, Halifax.........

 

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I'd argue Oldham and Worky never ' boomed ' in SL , Fax had a decent team at that time and did fall from grace , but if you look at the NRL , some of their clubs have ' busted ' , as happens in all sports

[The Parksider]

I'd argue Oldham and Worky never ' boomed ' in SL 

 

Indeed they just found themselves there.

 

They were 10th and 11th. in the first division 1996 by virtue of how it used to work and still works now, i.e. chairmen who had found a few quid and chucked it at enough players.

 

A couple of years earlier they had been in division two (oldham) and division three (workington)

 

IIRC Oldham were running up debts against the Watersheddings and Workington didn't get an adequate enough rise in crowds to go on pumping the money in. It wasn't just that the money had run out, it was also the fact that far more money was needed to run professionally and SKY money did not cover the costs.

 

For Workington bottom of the SL table 1996 meant crowds as low as 1400

For Oldham bottom of the SL table 1997 meant crowds as low as 2100

 

Two small clubs out of their depth. 

[Derwent]

Indeed they just found themselves there.

 

They were 10th and 11th. in the first division 1996 by virtue of how it used to work and still works now, i.e. chairmen who had found a few quid and chucked it at enough players.

 

A couple of years earlier they had been in division two (oldham) and division three (workington)

 

IIRC Oldham were running up debts against the Watersheddings and Workington didn't get an adequate enough rise in crowds to go on pumping the money in. It wasn't just that the money had run out, it was also the fact that far more money was needed to run professionally and SKY money did not cover the costs.

 

For Workington bottom of the SL table 1996 meant crowds as low as 1400

For Oldham bottom of the SL table 1997 meant crowds as low as 2100

 

Two small clubs out of their depth.

Town never went bust in SL. Unlike relegated clubs later on, they had no protection from the consequences of relegation. No parachute payment, no voiding of playing contracts upon relegation. They were left with SL sized contracts without the income to pay them, which is what made up the bulk of the £1m debt which forced the club into administration.

[Blind side johnny]

Town never went bust in SL. Unlike relegated clubs later on, they had no protection from the consequences of relegation. No parachute payment, no voiding of playing contracts upon relegation. They were left with SL sized contracts without the income to pay them, which is what made up the bulk of the £1m debt which forced the club into administration.

 

 

Rank bad management in other words. (It happened to my club too, for the same reasons, and we weren't actually promoted.)

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[Derwent]

Rank bad management in other words. (It happened to my club too, for the same reasons, and we weren't actually promoted.)

.

Yes and no. Difficult to get players to move up here for a one year contract so the club had to commit to longer deals, but equally they should have had contingency plans in place.

[Keith T]

Yes and no. Difficult to get players to move up here for a one year contract so the club had to commit to longer deals, but equally they should have had contingency plans in place.

 

And lets not forget that our relegation was in part due to the support the RFL gave to Paris SG to ensure it was us and not them who got relegated, as the piece in my signature alludes to from Dave Hadfield at the time. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I see that your argument, like most on here, is purely from a SL perspective, ergo if it benefits us then it will benefit the sport as a whole.

D/R is causing significant disillusionment amongst many Championship clubs' followers and a further move towards feeder teams would end most peoples' interest entirely. Believe it or not we don't just watch the shirts but the people who play in them.

.

I'm looking at it from an elite player's development perspective. And yes, if it benefits the elite player, it does benefit the sport as a whole.

Championship clubs don't have to have an agreement with SL clubs. No one is forcing them. But whether Championship fans like it or not, there is a natural pecking order. It won't always be that order, but sometimes you just need to accept it at the time and play the cards you have.

[The Parksider]

I see that your argument, like most on here, is purely from a SL perspective, ergo if it benefits us then it will benefit the sport as a whole.

 

Today Keinhorst, Yates and Walters played for Hunslet and helped us to a win.

 

It shouldn't be conveniently forgotten that the move wasn't about developing players per se but was about taking the financial pressure off SL clubs.

 

Why have a reserve side when you can use an CC club who have no real choice and can't afford to say no to DR.

 

Darryl Powell was on the radio against it, and pointing out the integrity element once championship clubs start meeting SL clubs for the right to be promoted to or retained in SL.

 

I'd guess that the RFL/SLE don't really care, all will be Ok as long as the two northern professional CC clubs don't do DR and play out their two horse race and be the only challengers to the SL clubs.

 

The rest of the Championship can continue to be used.

[Blind side johnny]

Today Keinhorst, Yates and Walters played for Hunslet and helped us to a win.

 

It shouldn't be conveniently forgotten that the move wasn't about developing players per se but was about taking the financial pressure off SL clubs.

 

Why have a reserve side when you can use an CC club who have no real choice and can't afford to say no to DR.

 

Darryl Powell was on the radio against it, and pointing out the integrity element once championship clubs start meeting SL clubs for the right to be promoted to or retained in SL.

 

I'd guess that the RFL/SLE don't really care, all will be Ok as long as the two northern professional CC clubs don't do DR and play out their two horse race and be the only challengers to the SL clubs.

 

The rest of the Championship can continue to be used.

 

 

I know - I was there (and we deserved to be beaten).

 

Listening to the Hunslet/Leeds coach Barry Eaton on radio afterwards revealed the mentality that clubs now have as he thought that it was working well because it offered a great development pathway for the players - that's all, just a devlopment pathway, nothing about the feelings of Hunslet fans if their club is exploited for the benefit of Leeds alone.

 

It is worth understanding that many of the coaches in the Championship will not speak out against the practice if they still have an ambition to coach at SL level. They wouldn't want to upset anyone for whom they may end up working.

[The Parksider]

I know - I was there (and we deserved to be beaten).

 

Listening to the Hunslet/Leeds coach Barry Eaton on radio afterwards revealed the mentality that clubs now have as he thought that it was working well because it offered a great development pathway for the players - that's all, just a devlopment pathway, nothing about the feelings of Hunslet fans if their club is exploited for the benefit of Leeds alone.

 

It is worth understanding that many of the coaches in the Championship will not speak out against the practice if they still have an ambition to coach at SL level. They wouldn't want to upset anyone for whom they may end up working.

 

As you say that interview was with the Leeds assistant coach Barry Eaton who is on the front row, far left of the Leeds Rhinos official pre-season photograph.

 

Barry coaches the Leeds "A" team. He already works full time for Leeds.

 

Those players aren't on an "elite players development pathway" which is naive. They're keeping warm whilst the inevitable Leeds injury list requires them to be match ready.

 

Saves Leeds money and saves Hunslet from oblivion in CC1. Hunslet are of course being "forced" to do this........

[GaryO]

As you say that interview was with the Leeds assistant coach Barry Eaton who is on the front row, far left of the Leeds Rhinos official pre-season photograph.

 

Barry coaches the Leeds "A" team. He already works full time for Leeds.

 

Those players aren't on an "elite players development pathway" which is naive. They're keeping warm whilst the inevitable Leeds injury list requires them to be match ready.

 

Saves Leeds money and saves Hunslet from oblivion in CC1. Hunslet are of course being "forced" to do this........

Parky, please elaborate on "saves Leeds money" and as you said in #45 "taking the financial pressure of super league clubs" I have asked the question on a number of occasion's of who pays the player's on DR and never got an answer, maybe you can shed some light on it, thanks in advance.

[bobbruce]

Parky, please elaborate on "saves Leeds money" and as you said in #45 "taking the financial pressure of super league clubs" I have asked the question on a number of occasion's of who pays the player's on DR and never got an answer, maybe you can shed some light on it, thanks in advance.

It saves Leeds money because they don't have to run an A team/u23s with a full squad of 30ish plus all the coaches phsyio and all the other costs. As for who pays I'm not sure but my guess is Leeds with a small contribution from Hunslet whenever he plays for them.

[Blind side johnny]

Parky, please elaborate on "saves Leeds money" and as you said in #45 "taking the financial pressure of super league clubs" I have asked the question on a number of occasion's of who pays the player's on DR and never got an answer, maybe you can shed some light on it, thanks in advance.

 

 

The parent club pay the contracts and the junior club may pay match fees only, depending upon the agreement.