BBC1: The Rugby Codebreakers

[Futtocks]

For those of you who missed this excellent BBC Wales documentary when it was first shown, it is being repeated, this time nationally on BBC1. Not just worth watching, but recording for future enjoyment.

Quote

Saturday, 18 August
23:45-00:45, Rugby League - The Rugby Codebreakers (repeat), BBC One

 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

20 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

For those of you who missed this excellent BBC Wales documentary when it was first shown, it is being repeated, this time nationally on BBC1. Not just worth watching, but recording for future enjoyment.

 

Excellent.

 

[Futtocks]

It is on immediately after Match of the Day, so may pick up some viewers who are in the mood for more sports TV.

Or too lazy/drunk to switch channels.

[Old Frightful]

Hmmph!

Replicating my, admittedly old, thread eh? 

No originality you southerners.

Seriously though, this documentary is a quite moving piece of work, just make absolutely certain you don't miss the Jim Mills interview and his story about having a beer in Llanelli. 

[Wirral Warrior]

Agreed - its a superb documentary. I did write to the producer/presenter Carolyn Hitt (?) to congratulate her, as she cleverly and movingly told the story of the movement of players and uncovered some of the other reasons ( as opposed to financial) for code breaking. She acknowledges that it shed new light on the game on Rugby League and she changed her views from her original preconceptions.

 

[KWC]

Well worth watching!

[17 stone giant]

Watched it when it was last mentioned on here. Thought it was excellent.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Futtocks said:

For those of you who missed this excellent BBC Wales documentary when it was first shown, it is being repeated, this time nationally on BBC1. Not just worth watching, but recording for future enjoyment.

 

 Set, look forward to that.. Thanks.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Thanks, I'll definitely be staying up for it!

Could do to put it on right before the challenge Cup final. Would make a nice afternoon of rugby league and a good lead into the game. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Just had a look at TV guide, says they are putting the watersplash documentary on in the morning before the final. Decent documentary as well!

[Futtocks]

3 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Just had a look at TV guide, says they are putting the watersplash documentary on in the morning before the final. Decent documentary as well!

That was an excellent documentary, and deserves another outing.

[Bomb Jack]

Thanks to the OP for the heads up, Tivo set.

 

 

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

I haven't seen the programme but after 1908 there's a long list of international Australian, NZ and Welsh players who shifted to the superior code including one Dally Messenger who had played onion at international level for the okkers in 1907.

Herb/Bert Gilbert was one of the top known RL internationals at the time and was the first cross code player at that level to play for Hull FC (if not Cross code international to play for a UK team??) at centre and made his debut on the same day as 'Jack' Harrison V.C.  Between 1912-15 he scored 57 tries in 144 appearances, leaving for home shortly after the outbreak of WWI.

Not sure how often it happened but there are examples of players making their international debut in RL and then going on to rep in union. Karl Ifwereson is the earliest known making his NZ RL debut in 1913 (and like many other losing his best days to war were he served with honour) before going on to play (only once) for the NZ RU side in 1921, he continued to play for Auckland RU until he was 45 apparently! Another cross coder from the early days is Jean Dauger of France who repped v Aus in 1938 at league and then played for the union national side against a British Army RU team near the end of WWII. The local Bayonne RU stadium is named after him and is close to his town of birth.

[Lobbygobbler]

On 8/17/2018 at 6:10 PM, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

I haven't seen the programme but after 1908 there's a long list of international Australian, NZ and Welsh players who shifted to the superior code including one Dally Messenger who had played onion at international level for the okkers in 1907.

Herb/Bert Gilbert was one of the top known RL internationals at the time and was the first cross code player at that level to play for Hull FC (if not Cross code international to play for a UK team??) at centre and made his debut on the same day as 'Jack' Harrison V.C.  Between 1912-15 he scored 57 tries in 144 appearances, leaving for home shortly after the outbreak of WWI.

Not sure how often it happened but there are examples of players making their international debut in RL and then going on to rep in union. Karl Ifwereson is the earliest known making his NZ RL debut in 1913 (and like many other losing his best days to war were he served with honour) before going on to play (only once) for the NZ RU side in 1921, he continued to play for Auckland RU until he was 45 apparently! Another cross coder from the early days is Jean Dauger of France who repped v Aus in 1938 at league and then played for the union national side against a British Army RU team near the end of WWII. The local Bayonne RU stadium is named after him and is close to his town of birth.

Welsh rugby players have been “going north” since the 1880’s

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

17 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Welsh rugby players have been “going north” since the 1880’s

I know that, I was clearly speaking of international level only, the number of quality players to transit to RL (those that had repped at national level) seemed to boom just after the All Golds' tour, not just Australian's but also Welsh players and NZ'ers too.

[Tommygilf]

Watching it again. A genuinely great programme which as a historian anyway I love it but as an RL Fan its impossible not to see it and feel a bit of pride and justice.

[Futtocks]

Just finished watching it again on BBC1, although I have it recorded. It is still a real piece of work, and hopefully an eye-opener to all those who drank the RU Kool-Aid for a century and more.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Wow! Brilliant! Well done BBC (and that is something I do not say often). Just watched it for the first time, one of the best things I have seen in ages, could have watched hours of that. I wish this had been on at a better time so more people could have watched it. I hope it is on i player and they mention it a million times during the challenge Cup final. 

One thing that really Impressed me was how many union journalists and former players were talking positively about professionalism and saying how ridiculous the amateur nature of union was. It was great that it highlighted the discrimination in union as well and the racism. These are things that get a bit swept under the carpet in wider society I think. If I remember rightly it was the former rfu chief that likened it to apartheid. I thought it also showed just how much union is about the international game. 99% of references to union in it were about the international game. 

Watching all the old footage was fantastic, especially that about the aircraft carrier. That is a great, fun story that is just not known about in British sport and I can't help thinking that stories like that would be famous if it had been another sport. I must say as well, I haven't been a fan of bringing GB back but after seeing the footage of them in the past it did make me smile looking at the famous Jersey in action again!

Ultimately this documentary confirmed what us league fans know about our sport and everyone else is ignorant to. People who do not know the sport always say it is a 'minority sport' (I hate that phrase), a regional game and no one follows it because it is worse quality than union. This documentary showed that it is only a smaller sport because it was so oppressed by the elite for so long and that attitude has never quite gone away. 

It is their loss because those who know rugby league know it is the greatest sport in the world. This show made me so proud to be a rugby league fan. Again, well done BBC!

[Futtocks]

1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Wow! Brilliant! Well done BBC (and that is something I do not say often). Just watched it for the first time, one of the best things I have seen in ages, could have watched hours of that. I wish this had been on at a better time so more people could have watched it. I hope it is on i player and they mention it a million times during the challenge Cup final. 

One thing that really Impressed me was how many union journalists and former players were talking positively about professionalism and saying how ridiculous the amateur nature of union was. It was great that it highlighted the discrimination in union as well and the racism. These are things that get a bit swept under the carpet in wider society I think. If I remember rightly it was the former rfu chief that likened it to apartheid. I thought it also showed just how much union is about the international game. 99% of references to union in it were about the international game. 

Watching all the old footage was fantastic, especially that about the aircraft carrier. That is a great, fun story that is just not known about in British sport and I can't help thinking that stories like that would be famous if it had been another sport. I must say as well, I haven't been a fan of bringing GB back but after seeing the footage of them in the past it did make me smile looking at the famous Jersey in action again!

Ultimately this documentary confirmed what us league fans know about our sport and everyone else is ignorant to. People who do not know the sport always say it is a 'minority sport' (I hate that phrase), a regional game and no one follows it because it is worse quality than union. This documentary showed that it is only a smaller sport because it was so oppressed by the elite for so long and that attitude has never quite gone away. 

It is their loss because those who know rugby league know it is the greatest sport in the world. This show made me so proud to be a rugby league fan. Again, well done BBC!

The Cliff Morgan interview (and a few other short clips) also appear in the BBC documentary 'The Game that got away' which is also worth seeking out.

There's a book by Colin Thompson about the 'Indomitables' tour on the aircraft carrier of the same name. Apparently there was a party of Catholic priests on board, who dominated the deck hockey matches through sheer brutality and ruthlessness. Also, one of the GB touring squad got a proper telling-off from the captain for diving into shark-infested water to retrieve a ball. And Eddie Waring wangled himself a place on the ship too. The book's a good account of what old-school tours were like, especially visiting a land of plenty while rationing was still in full force back home.

As for other BBC RL docs, get BBC2 fired up a little early next Saturday: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b3g9q1

[Rupert Prince]

Re. Futtocks comments about the Indominable and noting that Eddie Waring was on board...

Uncle Eddie had his critics and some of it perhaps deserved, but for all of that he was a pioneer of the game, an entrepreneur in the game and an apologist for the game. He gave us perhaps the second best line to come out of Wembley Stadium (after that famous one of Wolsenholme's), "Poor lad... Poor Lad!!!".    We need more like him now.

[Man of Kent]

Still find the accounts of black players moving.

Rugby league can take great pride in being way ahead of certain other sports on that front 

[Rupert Prince]

14 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

I know that, I was clearly speaking of international level only, the number of quality players to transit to RL (those that had repped at national level) seemed to boom just after the All Golds' tour, not just Australian's but also Welsh players and NZ'ers too.

Thete was a tv film about the All Goods,The First Kangaroos, with Denis Waterman playing Albert Goldthope. As I recall it had an Aussie involvement so I guess this is why Goldthorpe was the villain and Dally Messenger was the hero !!!

[moorside roughyed]

Already watched it,if anybody hasn't it's well worth it. Very good documentary. 

[Bomb Jack]

I recorded it last night on my Tivo, and watched it this morning. It's a great documentary.

With my old Tivo, I could have recorded it onto a DVD for my elderly Uncle, who has neither the internet or a recordable box.

I have looked on youtube, as I can download from there, to put onto a DVD for him, but it's not on there.

Does anyone know where I can download it from please?

 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

13 minutes ago, Bomb Jack said:

I recorded it last night on my Tivo, and watched it this morning. It's a great documentary.

With my old Tivo, I could have recorded it onto a DVD for my elderly Uncle, who has neither the internet or a recordable box.

I have looked on youtube, as I can download from there, to put onto a DVD for him, but it's not on there.

Does anyone know where I can download it from please?

 

I have put a link below for the programme on BBC iplayer.  Go on there and there is an option to download it.  It will ask you to install the BBC downloads app.  After you have done that you can download the programme and watch it offline and then if you have a laptop you can show your uncle on there, or plug it into his tv or whatever.  I don't think you can put the shows on dvds straight from the bbc download.  I think there might be a programme you can download which will covert the files to a different format and then you can, just put into google something like, can i put bbc iplayer downloads onto dvds? Hope that helps!

Info about iplayer downloads: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/downloads/web/freq_ques_iplayerdownloads

The documentary on iplayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09w01q4/the-rugby-codebreakers?suggid=b09w01q4