French players to become Fed trained

[Scubby]

I have heard this from one or two sources but haven't seen anything official.

If this happens it will make a huge amount of difference to SL clubs. For example, players like Elima, Bosc, Stacul, Duport etc. could move to SL clubs and not count on the quota as they would be fed trained.

Now I am not advocating weakening Les Catalans, but what it means is that, if contract talks stall, SL clubs could bid for players and keep them from the mits of French RU without them going on quota.

It makes sense really. If someone like Elima or Bosc ever wanted to leave the Dragons I am sure SL clubs would be interested in taking them as non-quota players.

[Wendall]

This would be an excellent move and even up the competition.

Someone like Bosc at Bradford would be affordable and do a better job than what they have now.

It would also benefit the French RL National side.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

It was crazy to count them as non-fed in the first place. By allowing French players to freely compete for more than just a French side will naturally increase the playing strength of the nation.

With respect to Elima, he wouldn

[audois]

It was crazy to count them as non-fed in the first place. By allowing French players to freely compete for more than just a French side will naturally increase the playing strength of the nation.

With respect to Elima, he wouldn’t be classed as a non-fed anyway given he started out in the Cas academy before Trinity recruited him. He left for the Dragons after 5 years or so at Belle Vue.

This has been reported here. That Catalans can have it appears five overseas players on the quota from next year - down from eight - but an additional two who have already played three years in the Super League. But as well can now sign English players too and visa-versa. There is a story doing the rounds that Elima has been linked with Bradford for next year.

Edited August 2, 2010 by audois

[dallymessenger]

english SL clubs should be raiding france for talent like aussie clubs to new zealand

there should be 1 or 2 french kids in each english teams

clubs should have paid development staff / scouts in france

[East Coast Tiger]

I can't believe they weren't already. How does the rule affect players who are not RL juniors like, for example, Baile and Griffi, or any other union player Catalans sign? They are French but they're not produced by French RL. I guess there must be something in place to account for similar players in England, not that I know of any union converts, apart from Thomas and maybe Ben Flower.

[giwildgo]

Good news for French players and the potential strength of the French national team, not so good for Catalans or Toulouse as the potential monopoly on French talent will be well and truly broken by the open market.

Seems a clear indication to me that the RFL are looking in a different direction than a second French team as the answer to growth of the game internationally at the next franchise decisions. It may be the case that they see Toulouse as too much of a risk and therefore have acted now to remove one of the real problems in France, which is a limited pathway and number of opportunities at the top of the game. Maybe they have looked at the NZ Warriors / NRL model and noticed that the strength of the NZ national team has not necessarily been hampered by having only one team provided that there are fair opportunities elsewhere.

[MrPosh]

I can't believe they weren't already. How does the rule affect players who are not RL juniors like, for example, Baile and Griffi, or any other union player Catalans sign? They are French but they're not produced by French RL. I guess there must be something in place to account for similar players in England, not that I know of any union converts, apart from Thomas and maybe Ben Flower.

They haven't been trained in another federation either, so I should think they'll have no problem.

Good news for French players and the potential strength of the French national team, not so good for Catalans or Toulouse as the potential monopoly on French talent will be well and truly broken by the open market.

Seems a clear indication to me that the RFL are looking in a different direction than a second French team as the answer to growth of the game internationally at the next franchise decisions. It may be the case that they see Toulouse as too much of a risk and therefore have acted now to remove one of the real problems in France, which is a limited pathway and number of opportunities at the top of the game. Maybe they have looked at the NZ Warriors / NRL model and noticed that the strength of the NZ national team has not necessarily been hampered by having only one team provided that there are fair opportunities elsewhere.

Exactly my thoughts and at this stage, a far more sensible option that parachuting Toulouse or Paris into the competition. If we see one or two French players at most SL clubs, alongside a competitive Catalans team, then the French national will start to become better and gain a higher profile - encouraging more players to take up the game and so beginning a virtuous circle.

Why it's ever been otherwise, I don't know, but then this is rugby league.

[nadera78]

I can't believe they weren't already. How does the rule affect players who are not RL juniors like, for example, Baile and Griffi, or any other union player Catalans sign? They are French but they're not produced by French RL. I guess there must be something in place to account for similar players in England, not that I know of any union converts, apart from Thomas and maybe Ben Flower.

Griffi was a RL junior. He came through at Carcassonne, playing age-group for France all the way, before going to union at 18/19 years of age. He only stayed a couple of years before moving back to RL.

Apart from that, it's good news for the froggies to be reclassified as federation trained.

[bowes]

SL wasn't full of French players before the Federation trained rule was brought in (there were a couple), so not sure how much of a difference it will make, though I guess 5 years of Catalans will see a few more players floating around.

Toulouse in SL would be reckless at a time when Catalans are struggling

[Dave T]

They haven't been trained in another federation either, so I should think they'll have no problem.

Exactly my thoughts and at this stage, a far more sensible option that parachuting Toulouse or Paris into the competition. If we see one or two French players at most SL clubs, alongside a competitive Catalans team, then the French national will start to become better and gain a higher profile - encouraging more players to take up the game and so beginning a virtuous circle.

Why it's ever been otherwise, I don't know, but then this is rugby league.

I'm not sure it ever really has. In the past the quota has been about passports, but now they are moving towards fed-trained etc. they have had to tweak the rules.

French players never counted on the quota (in recent years anyway) and they won't under these rules. I just see it as clarification rather than a real change.

[audois]

I can't believe they weren't already. How does the rule affect players who are not RL juniors like, for example, Baile and Griffi, or any other union player Catalans sign? They are French but they're not produced by French RL. I guess there must be something in place to account for similar players in England, not that I know of any union converts, apart from Thomas and maybe Ben Flower.

Baile like Griffi grew up playing league at the MJC Junior set up in Carcassonne. After Juniors they both dabbled at union Griffi went off to Narbonne and Baile to Stade Toulousain. I think Griffi picked league up again playing at Salses down in the third tier level before being picked up by the Dragons in 2007. Baile had injury problems in his year in Toulouse before switching back to the XIII in 2008. Baile's father player rugby league for France in the 70s.

[Smog]

When the fed trained players rules were brought in I posted on here at the time that I suspected that if it was challenged the rules would break EU employment laws - We are not even allowed to test if an EU doctor can speak an acceptable level of English now!!!!

It is not that long ago that Quins released Ranaldi with a statement that this was due to the fed trained rules. If he was unable to find another club or had to take a drop in wages I feel sure he would have had a very stong case that he had been discriminated against.

For what it is worth, I welcome the change of heart by the RFL and think it will benifit the French game in the long term as it has New Zealand in the southern hemisphere.

[GazCoops]

I'm not sure it ever really has. In the past the quota has been about passports, but now they are moving towards fed-trained etc. they have had to tweak the rules.

French players never counted on the quota (in recent years anyway) and they won't under these rules. I just see it as clarification rather than a real change.

Since this whole new quota system came into effect, they have been classified as non fed players, like a new zealander would have been classified. It was the same if an English players was in the Catalans team, they would be classed as a non fed player.

As long as English players are not still classed as non fed also, Im all up for the change in the rules. There is a few French players who are good enough to play at English SL clubs but are not worth using a quota spot on, a few more French players at English clubs will only make the French national side stronger and Catalans will become stronger if they sign the right sort of English players to replace the few outgoing French players and not other teams cast offs.

[Dave T]

Since this whole new quota system came into effect, they have been classified as non fed players, like a new zealander would have been classified. It was the same if an English players was in the Catalans team, they would be classed as a non fed player.

As long as English players are not still classed as non fed also, Im all up for the change in the rules. There is a few French players who are good enough to play at English SL clubs but are not worth using a quota spot on, a few more French players at English clubs will only make the French national side stronger and Catalans will become stronger if they sign the right sort of English players to replace the few outgoing French players and not other teams cast offs.

How long has the non-fed thing been in play for though? It's only a couple of years isn't it, and the limits were pretty much worthless, with clubs having up to 11 'overseas' players in there, so there has been nothing stopping French players being signed imo.

[ParisSurtout]

SL wasn't full of French players before the Federation trained rule was brought in (there were a couple), so not sure how much of a difference it will make, though I guess 5 years of Catalans will see a few more players floating around.

Toulouse in SL would be reckless at a time when Catalans are struggling

So Toulouse in SL wouldn't be reckless if Catalans are not struggling?

Next year, under a new coach, we can expect the strong playing squad of Les Catalans club not to be struggling. At that point I would expect you to proclaim a Toulouse SL license as not a reckless decision.

Edited August 2, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[steef]

why can we "expect" Catalans not to struggle next year? are they the only team that will improve? What if Bosc and Greenshields get Injured? What if the new coach is worse than Walters? (doubtfull i admit)

Whilst good for France, more French players in SL could meen less English players in SL at a time when we want more.

[ParisSurtout]

why can we "expect" Catalans not to struggle next year? are they the only team that will improve? What if Bosc and Greenshields get Injured? What if the new coach is worse than Walters? (doubtfull i admit)

Whilst good for France, more French players in SL could meen less English players in SL at a time when we want more.

Catalans have a team that is massively underperforming given the talent of the individual players. Greenshields, Pelo, Bosc, Johnson, Carlaw, Fakir, Ferriol, Guisset, McGuire and Elima are all top draw players. It is a team that has declined greatly since last year, when the mid season advent of inspirational captain Greg Bird inspired them in a way that their pathetic coach could not.

Other teams may also improve --- for example Salford with the acquisition of Luke Patten. But Salford will still not have the talent that Les Catalans have. Bradford will improve under Mick Potter, but Bradford will still not have the individual player talent of Les Catalans. So I am arguing that Les Catalans have more improvement in them than other clubs.

The new coach at Catalans Trent Robinson must be a great improvement on Walters since he is smarter than Walters (whose post match comments show himself off as a fool), he is completing an apprenticeship under Brian Smith, he has his own special technical skills, he has experience of playing and coaching in France, and he speaks French.

Edited August 3, 2010 by ParisSurtout

[bowes]

So Toulouse in SL wouldn't be reckless if Catalans are not struggling?

Next year, under a new coach, we can expect the strong playing squad of Les Catalans club not to be struggling. At that point I would expect you to proclaim a Toulouse SL license as not a reckless decision.

Unless Toulouse make this year's grand final it would be impossible for them to get in without the RFL being pathological liars.

Having said that if Catalans were still finishing 3rd there'd be a better base for Toulouse if they could pick some players up there, but Toulouse would still have to be okay first. Bringing in a 2nd SL French club when the one club is down the bottom would be ludicrous, but that doesn't mean they should automatically bring Toulouse in when Catalans have a good season unless Toulouse can also justify it.

And aren't Catalans having a player exodus?

[winnyason]

Unless Toulouse make this year's grand final it would be impossible for them to get in without the RFL being pathological liars.

Having said that if Catalans were still finishing 3rd there'd be a better base for Toulouse if they could pick some players up there, but Toulouse would still have to be okay first. Bringing in a 2nd SL French club when the one club is down the bottom would be ludicrous, but that doesn't mean they should automatically bring Toulouse in when Catalans have a good season unless Toulouse can also justify it.

And aren't Catalans having a player exodus

Bowes get a grip loser, ###### any oppotunity to put the boot into toulouse by hay let's have a farce of a team called the crusaders full of aussies playing in front of 2 thousand odd people and that is ok.

The rfl league in there latest licening wording stated" any international team could be invited for superleague licence so if they meet the requirements they are in with a shot.

They are getting there stadium build in all possibility, there biggest problem is catalans had a injury crisis and players such a stacul, bentley, simon, touxagas have had no chance to help toulouse while other side in the top are helped by duel rego with english clubs.

Toulouse have there hands serverly tied the salary cap is a joke, they cannot compete with the likes of asc, fcl or limoux in money so they are up against it.

[DemonUK]

2011

At least 8 home grown players.

No more than 5 quota players.

No more than 5 overseas trained players inc quota players.

Rest of squad to be from players trained within same federation.

KEY

Home grown players - any player still under 21 and/or has completed 3 years service with the same clubs academy set up.

Same federation - any player still under 21 and/or has completed 3 years service with other clubs academy set ups within UK (for UK SL clubs) or France (for Catalans etc)

Overseas quota players - as per current rules i.e. Anyone unable to prove origins within EU or Kolpak countries.

Overseas trained - any other overseas player (EU passport or Kolpak etc.)

OK not sure I understand the federation trained thing properly, because what I read above is UK and France federations are seperate entities. Can someone explain please.

[bowes]

Bowes get a grip loser, ###### any oppotunity to put the boot into toulouse by hay let's have a farce of a team called the crusaders full of aussies playing in front of 2 thousand odd people and that is ok.

The rfl league in there latest licening wording stated" any international team could be invited for superleague licence so if they meet the requirements they are in with a shot.

They are getting there stadium build in all possibility, there biggest problem is catalans had a injury crisis and players such a stacul, bentley, simon, touxagas have had no chance to help toulouse while other side in the top are helped by duel rego with english clubs.

Toulouse have there hands serverly tied the salary cap is a joke, they cannot compete with the likes of asc, fcl or limoux in money so they are up against it.

FFS get a grip on reality.

Toulouse were 7th before they joined the Championship so couldn't compete with Lezignan there. Any idea of Toulouse in SL from 2012 is a joke, pure and simple, whether Crusaders is okay we'll see, I'm not so positive about it as I was a month or two ago.

Toulouse WILL NOT be in SL in 2012, just accept it. It's only Australians proposing this from the other side of the world, all our resident expansionists (except the nutter Paris) have accepted it

Edited August 4, 2010 by bowes

[winnyason]

idiot the playing field is not level the championship salary cap is hurting them you know it ######wit, why i am ###### at the crusaders cause that ######wit who owned them highjacked toulouse for superleague, the crusaders are a ######ing joke, toulouse would average at least 7 thousand test match figures.

They are 7th because the team they have is no where like the side for superleague, i might be from australia but at least we support developing new zealanders ###### you guys would recruit an fijian ahead of a frenchman maybe you just downright hate the french.

[GazCoops]

OK not sure I understand the federation trained thing properly, because what I read above is UK and France federations are seperate entities. Can someone explain please.

You read the rules correctly both English and French trained players are separate enteries but the league have decided from next season, they will both be classed as fed trained regardless of been trained in France or England. That why this thread was started in the first place, the recent change in the rules.

As for Toulouse not been able to apply for a franchise spot, they can due to the league saying that any overseas club is welcome to apply for a licence regardless of them appearing in a final.

[bowes]

idiot the playing field is not level the championship salary cap is hurting them you know it ######wit, why i am ###### at the crusaders cause that ######wit who owned them highjacked toulouse for superleague, the crusaders are a ######ing joke, toulouse would average at least 7 thousand test match figures.

They are 7th because the team they have is no where like the side for superleague, i might be from australia but at least we support developing new zealanders ###### you guys would recruit an fijian ahead of a frenchman maybe you just downright hate the french.

Toulouse were 7th in the French Elite before entering the Championship. The salary cap is fair as it applies to everyone not just Toulouse, though I'd instead have Toulouse in the French Elite on condition they can only apply for SL on making a French Elite final (they'd still struggle but would make more sense) and meeting the other criteria there. You can't just chuck them in for being French and watch them collapse due to getting smashed every week. Toulouse had their chance to get in, if they'd have finished in the top couple of the French Elite in 2007-08 rather than 7th I suspect they'd be in by now.

Making excuses for them being French won't pay the bills or run a SL club so is pointless

No white French people want to live in the UK, unlike New Zealanders in Australia so don't see how we can help that, they wouldn't play for us if we wanted them. Also there's a lot stronger rugby league in New Zealand than France and you still only have one NRL club there

Edited August 5, 2010 by bowes