The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Whatever we all might think (and I'm in the 'impending catastrophe' camp here) this thread could well be re-titled 'Like it or not, we've made a Decision so you'll just have to Lump it'.

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if they properly enforced the solvency rule

[Tonka]

its not being split up mid season though....

each league will play a full home,away & magic game season....then the top8 play in the super league playoffs,

the bottom4 & championship top4 play in the super league qualifying playoffs

and the bottom 8 championship clubs play in the championship shield...

[Tonka]

Ah right, I didn't follow it properly on the bbc article then. Sounds fine for play offs. Good even.

[Tonka]

As I understand it each club plays

11 x 2

7 x 1

And then play offs?

Or is it decided based on where you finish after the 7 x 1?

I assume play offs, but that not all 8 from your group can be in them

Is that right?

[The Parksider]

If you read the RFL document on their proposals they have reduced the Minimum Standards.

Thanks for that. Reducing standards down indicates clubs could not reach the original standards and seems to help confirm this is about clubs not being able to keep up.

Standards down, less spent, but supposedly the crowds will go up. More and more it looks like KPMG were merely used to "sell" the changes.

[yipyee]

As I understand it each club plays

11 x 2

7 x 1

And then play offs?

Or is it decided based on where you finish after the 7 x 1?

I assume play offs, but that not all 8 from your group can be in them

Is that right?

there is magic weekend. .. which will make 23 games

there is also a top 4 playoff in SL.....

[The Parksider]

It seems the RFL are trying to bridge the gap between Super League and the Championship.

Rovers and Widnes have benefited from that because they've both been given time to build on solid ground.

Well I don't know about that, didn't Mr. Hudgell have to put a lot of money in as well as SOC. Do those sums appear as directors loans on the balance sheet??

The Featherstone Rovers balance sheet shows a big overspend. To me it seems the RFL are trying to release clubs from having to chase the big Superleague clubs.

We did get Mr Hudgell complaining about how much he had to put in every year to stand still so I don't see any building on solid ground IMVHO.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

I see it as the complete opposite this doesn't give 4/5 clubs the chance of bringing back glory days. Instead it allows 4/5 current SL clubs to seriously tone down their spend but still have a very good chance of retaining their TV money.

 

Good point.

[GeordieSaint]

Its the product that matters not where it is played.  If we can get a vibrant game where everyone is playing for something then the spectacle will be much better thus more people will watch on sky and we get more money simples.

 

If only it was that simple; the flaw in this current masterplan is that there isn't the playing personnel, financial resources or expertise within the game to create that vibrant competition. That's why the next quote is a fantasy; it'll never happen.

 

Hopefully all the clubs in the top 24 will become full time professional.

 

 

More and more it looks like KPMG were merely used to "sell" the changes.

 

I have worked very closely with KPMG in recent months; they tell you what you want to hear whilst charging you a fortune.

[donald]

Hopefully this will mean the end of the bonus point unless its gonna be in all 3 leagues

[yipyee]

If only it was that simple; the flaw in this current masterplan is that there isn't the playing personnel, financial resources or expertise within the game to create that vibrant competition. That's why the next quote is a fantasy; it'll never happen.

I have worked very closely with KPMG in recent months; they tell you what you want to hear whilst charging you a fortune.

the thing is they do have the players for 24 fully pro teams...the problem is lads want to play fully pro but are then released. ...they aren't good enough for the top level but can't stay pro as you could in soccer.....Some play semi pro.....and loose a bit as they aren't training full time, some walk away all together. ....

the problem as always is funding!

[yipyee]

Does anyone know what weekend magic will be on??

[GaryO]

Slightly hysterical there mate. We are talking about a leisure activity here, talk of terminal illness is way OTT. Some perspective please.

Firstly apoligies if I have caused any offence with that analogy, but Bradford do give that impression, I have been watching this game since 1961and Bradford in Trouble is a most definate recurring theme.

But surely you must agree with my last point.

[DAZROVER1985]

Well I don't know about that, didn't Mr. Hudgell have to put a lot of money in as well as SOC. Do those sums appear as directors loans on the balance sheet??

The Featherstone Rovers balance sheet shows a big overspend. To me it seems the RFL are trying to release clubs from having to chase the big Superleague clubs.

We did get Mr Hudgell complaining about how much he had to put in every year to stand still so I don't see any building on solid ground IMVHO.

im pretty sure rovers posted a profit last year

[Lobbygobbler]

For me this is the nub of it. I have been a fan of RL for 23 years, and as a southerner watched with great interest the creation of SL. It had such promise. Yet this promise, one of a pan European competition with such stellar names as PSG (who had wonderful promise - and yes, they did- I lived in Paris at the time and can vouch for the attention they attracted - they were simply managed poorly) and the hope for a greater footprint in the UK, has not been actualised. Instead, the sport has, if anything, regressed in terms of print profile, sponsorship, innovation, and certainly a southern awareness (another bugbear of mine - people making assumptions about how much RL is known down south - it is simply virtually non-existent in the lives and day to day experience of many here). Admittedly,the sport has 'regressed' in many respects because of the manner in which football and RU have improved their standing within broader UK culture in this time period. Nevertheless, what we are being left with is a sport that is becoming increasingly marginalized, and unfortunately, more culturally located than ever in certain northern communities. And please, do not remind me of the growth of the community game in the south. I could just as easily quote other sports, largely considered to be non mainstream ones, that have high participation levels in the south and yet still do not register in terms of national consciousness. Actually, I will give a couple of examples: American football and handball. So in sum, the sport of RL seems to be regressing. And a particularly harsh or cynical view of this might put forward the idea that it could end up abou as culturally relevant in this country as an emerging sport such as handball. And this possible regression is put quite succinctly in thequote I have

To be fair, it has been done it in a better way than I have, and I am aware of this. I guess as a fan of the game for 23 years, and one who has started to feel that it would be more worthwhile to follow another sport (remember what I said about how little relevance the sport has in the datherner down south?), I just wanted to vent some steam. Particularly as a fan of the Broncos. And what a lovely off-season we've had.

So why are you against the new system? It will benefit London Broncos (and the fans), as we can watch proper relevant games again rather than meaningless fixtures. Games against Wakey and Salford suddenly become of great interest again

[keighley]

We've got to go lower yet Jim before everyone will realise it needs bold decisions IMVHO. We have a long history of inclusiveness, it will take bottle to break away from the 37 clubs here who have the vote. Not got the bottle yet.....

I imagine executing a murder suicide pact is never very easy and always a desperate solution, not easily arrived at.

[keighley]

I just think the idea of splitting the league up mid season sounds a bit gimmicky and mad. You can have p and r without it if that's what you want. Not convinced it will add anything, and just seems confusing.

I think that will be my whole contribution to the debate.

Cheers

Plus 1 and it's not true p and r because here is no guarantee any team will be promoted and , in my opinion, more often than not no team will be promoted.

[Saintslass]

To me this new structure allows faster/greater possibilities for new expansion clubs to get into SL. In theory we could see Crusaders and one of Skolars/Oxford/All Golds in SL in 2016. Under licensing 2021 would have been the earliest time this could have happened.

I'm not sure that this will be the case.  There are, what, seven games to be played after the league split happens, yes?  How likely is it that semi pro clubs, even with some fully pro players in their ranks, could compete with fulltime professionals over the period of seven weeks?  Especially when they will have spent the previous 23 weeks playing against what will be weaker opposition. Some Championship teams have been able to build themselves up for a one-off, and we have seen them do that, but over a prolonged period?

 

Compare that to straight forward promotion and relegation (and I was always interested in two up, two down to create more JEOPARDY!), and what you have there is a team or teams which have competed with others at their level winning the right to try things out in the level above.  Pay them a one off parachute payment to bolster their squad and give them an off season to increase their intensity so that they have a good chance of competing with at least the lower ranked teams in Superleague.

[Lobbygobbler]

You seriously think those clubs will be ready for SL by then? 2021 might be more realistic with enough money. Getting into SL in 2016, getting hammered and going back down isn't progress.

To be honest, I think Cru could well be ready by 2016. They've also had recent experience of SL. Cru going into SL on merit could really generate a wave of new support.

Skolars might also be there or thereabouts in a few years. They were unlucky to miss out on promotion this year, and have potential access to large sponsorship. Imagine the additional interest at captial challenge when SKolars are pushing for SL.....,

[Lobbygobbler]

Up until licensing, all London Salford and Wakey games were 'meaningful' apparently. Yet the crowds were terrible. Why will it be any different now?

I'd initially settle for Londons crowds v Salford/Wakey pre-licensing. They were prob double those under licensing. The other thing to bear in mind is the atmosphere. It will be far better with relegation at stake

[Saintslass]

To be honest, I think Cru could well be ready by 2016. They've also had recent experience of SL. Cru going into SL on merit could really generate a wave of new support.

To be fair they went into the Superleague on merit last time, by winning the Championship 1 and Championship leagues as they progressed upward.

[keighley]

Bye gum lad your buoyed up with this decision. P & R failed, don’t you remember 1996-2008?? They then tried to slow it down and give clubs time to “build”  through a licensed P & R system. Clubs in CC could “build” up towards Superleague and be “ready” clubs in Superleague could “grow” without the fear of relegation.

 

But the clubs didn’t “get ready” in the Championship, their crowds just kept on dropping and they couldn’t build a professional team on a low salary cap.The clubs did not grow in Superleague either. The top clubs with the money hogged all the best players, won all the trophies and attracted the majority of paying fans leaving those at the bottom to run up debts.

 

There is no way licensing was emulating the NRL, I can’t let you get away with that. We have never had a closed shop of big clubs well run for the purpose of an even competitive league. It does look like Ponte my old Rover, that you are preparing for 3 years down the line when the NRL model will probably be called for. “It doesn’t work” will be your cry. “We tried in 2009-2013 and it failed”. What failed was “standards led P & R on a three year cycle”.

 

This is why I am querying why Martyn wanted “non-standards led P & R on a three year cycle”. I was never told why?

You do remember that one of the promoted clubs from the failed p and r system topped the SL last season and another made the top eight.

[Ackroman]

I'm just a fan of RL, I like the community based aspect to it and now that I'm living so far beyond it, I miss it.

 

However, I didn't really appreciate the politics, even though I am a born and bred league fan.

 

League Express as a format was always my bible but with this topic, the agenda's are too obvious and too leading. I have accepted all previous structures to the game, all previous opinions, I've kept going and even brought my kids to the game with a 160 mile round trip. 

 

However, I object to censorship, censorship that is too sensitive. If the Editor of LE has to be protected when he comes on here frothing his opinion and baiting Fev fans so readily, then you are welcome to him. I accept that this forum has to be paid for but I would prefer to pay than be led by the nose, or cut from the debate because I think the rhetoric is beyond editorial licence.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ackroman

[yipyee]

To be honest, I think Cru could well be ready by 2016. They've also had recent experience of SL. Cru going into SL on merit could really generate a wave of new support.

Skolars might also be there or thereabouts in a few years. They were unlucky to miss out on promotion this year, and have potential access to large sponsorship. Imagine the additional interest at captial challenge when SKolars are pushing for SL.....,

if that were true the broncos would have at least 1 sponsor!!!

[yipyee]

You do remember that one of the promoted clubs from the failed p and r system topped the SL last season and another made the top eight.

which is proof licensing works???