WCC - sell outs?

[toad]

My criticism is aimed at the marketing of the games which you've bought into. There is no actual reality between the reality of Rugby League and any strategy in planning or even the basic Idea of an International calendar.

[yipyee]

We always get good turnouts at finals, as do most clubs. All clubs have those who go to the events but not the humdrum week in week out stuff. Casual fans are very important for the finals even if many of them won't have much of a clue about what's going on. But our average gate peaked at 11,000 for the 2012 season when the new stadium attracted the curious. Our gate fell by 3,000 in 2013 and it only grew marginally in 2014. We only ever sell out for Wigan games.

your figures are wrong....care to provide some data?!??!

[scotchy]

Leeds v Canterbury was a sell out or near as relevant.

Leeds v Manly and Melbourne (first time) were also close if not there but im pretty sure the top tier of the main stand wasn't opened because of the cost of a safety certificate (this wasn't an RL problem, it was an LUFC decision)

Wigan V St George sold over 24k tickets in a 25k capacity stadium which is near enough to be a sell out (the exact capacity depends on the configuration of the stadium for that match)

Leeds v Manly (no 2) sold out, Leeds v Melbourne (no 3) pretty much did with about 600 less than the theoretical capacity, though again that's near enough to a sell out because of the differing configurations ( and margins of error)

 

Anything less than a sell out at all the games should be looked at as a failure. In fact, even if both St Helens and Warrington sell out, their combined totals will be less than 3 of Leeds WCC, and only slightly more than the game in Australia last year.

 

I think that there is valid criticism of the choices of venue and the level of ambition shown, similarly it should be a huge worry if any club aren't putting out the full house signs. Alternatively it is going to be a great spectacle and full house signs are always a good look.

[Futtocks]

Leeds v Canterbury was a sell out or near as relevant.

Leeds v Manly and Melbourne (first time) were also close if not there but im pretty sure the top tier of the main stand wasn't opened because of the cost of a safety certificate (this wasn't an RL problem, it was an LUFC decision)

Wigan V St George sold over 24k tickets in a 25k capacity stadium which is near enough to be a sell out (the exact capacity depends on the configuration of the stadium for that match)

Leeds v Manly (no 2) sold out, Leeds v Melbourne (no 3) pretty much did with about 600 less than the theoretical capacity, though again that's near enough to a sell out because of the differing configurations ( and margins of error)

 

Anything less than a sell out at all the games should be looked at as a failure. In fact, even if both St Helens and Warrington sell out, their combined totals will be less than 3 of Leeds WCC, and only slightly more than the game in Australia last year.

 

I think that there is valid criticism of the choices of venue and the level of ambition shown, similarly it should be a huge worry if any club aren't putting out the full house signs. Alternatively it is going to be a great spectacle and full house signs are always a good look.

I still have Leeds v Canterbury on the PVR. Very entertaining stuff, and a great atmosphere.

[toad]

full house signs aren't always an Indication of the facts. in the past the advertised sell outs of games is a promotion ploy. doubtless the WCC will be no different.

[Futtocks]

full house signs aren't always an Indication of the facts. in the past the advertised sell outs of games is a promotion ploy. doubtless the WCC will be no different.

Have you actually posted anything so far on TRL that even the most demented optimist could consider positive? You make Gutterfax look like... well, you.

[toad]

Good point Futtocks, I'm not happy . can't think of a positive thing about how the game is run. will try to do better.

[Futtocks]

Plenty of positives in the game. All you need is the will to accept that they are happening.

[toad]

It's difficult to Imagine how International Rugby League , after the RLWC , can be left to stagnate.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

For f'cks sake.

All I said was that I will be surprised if it's a sell out because there are two other games taking place nearby.

Well the WCC has usually been played in the same weekend as regular SL games and has still pretty much been a sell out. It has certainly beaten 18,000 every year without fail. It is a poor excuse for this game but selling out.

I've had enough of the tiresome childishness of some people going on about how awful Saints fans would be if this game was not a sell out. When was the last time the world club championship game sold out?

Pretty much every year it's been in this country. Again it has certainly beaten 18,000 every year.

Not that that matters, because as you've shown, you don't actually have the figures, have no intention of listening to or reading them, and will always go back to the lame "yeah but they didn't have two other games near by" excuse, which later became "two World games" despite the fact that earlier you were arguing them as just another home game that the casuals wouldn't be attracted to.

I couldn't care less whether it's a sell out or not. However, I am concerned that it's a competitive match and that Saints win it.

The sign of a person who has lost the argument. You do care, otherwise you wouldn't have been arguing about it for so long! Given the past figures of this event, if it fails to sell out in what has been the smallest ground to date for this fixture, it is a failure on the part of the club. You don't have to back the club you support for everything! If Saints can't engage enough of their fans to go the shortest possible distance to get to their biggest game, they have failed.

[Saintslass]

The sign of a person who has lost the argument. You do care, otherwise you wouldn't have been arguing about it for so long! Given the past figures of this event, if it fails to sell out in what has been the smallest ground to date for this fixture, it is a failure on the part of the club. You don't have to back the club you support for everything! If Saints can't engage enough of their fans to go the shortest possible distance to get to their biggest game, they have failed.

What argument?  The only argument I can see is whoever pulled me up for saying I would be surprised if the game sold out.  That wasn't an argument.  That was an opinion.  Others have been doing the arguing.  I couldn't care less whether it sells out or not.  I'm not interested in this obsession some RL fans have with bloody attendances.  I just care that it's a competitive game which Saints win.  I don't consider Saints having failed if the game is not a sell out.  And I don't consider the game to be Saints' biggest.  That was the Grand Final last year (in my view, obviously).

[Dave T]

What argument? The only argument I can see is whoever pulled me up for saying I would be surprised if the game sold out. That wasn't an argument. That was an opinion. Others have been doing the arguing. I couldn't care less whether it sells out or not. I'm not interested in this obsession some RL fans have with bloody attendances. I just care that it's a competitive game which Saints win. I don't consider Saints having failed if the game is not a sell out. And I don't consider the game to be Saints' biggest. That was the Grand Final last year (in my view, obviously).

strange you have become so prominent in a thread about attendances then tbh.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

What argument? The only argument I can see is whoever pulled me up for saying I would be surprised if the game sold out. That wasn't an argument. That was an opinion.

Your opening post:

"I doubt the game will sell out because there are two other games within ten miles of us and in that respect we lose out where others like Leeds have not."

The part after the "because" is the beginning of an argument. The part before is your opinion. Opinions are pointless without justification so at least you've attempted to justify it, but to claim you haven't argued is just false.

If you want to share an opinion, don't get into a flap of someone pulls you up on it. That's what happens on discussion forums... Discussion!

Others have been doing the arguing.

It's quite embarrassing to point the finger and blame everyone else.

I couldn't care less whether it sells out or not. I'm not interested in this obsession some RL fans have with bloody attendances.

Yet you posted your opinion on a topic about the attendance?...

Come on.

I just care that it's a competitive game which Saints win. I don't consider Saints having failed if the game is not a sell out. And I don't consider the game to be Saints' biggest. That was the Grand Final last year (in my view, obviously).

In a last of highly ranked games, where would you put it? You seem to hold the game on a similar level to that of a regular league game, possibly even smaller than the derby. I might be wrong (hope I'm wrong) but if I'm right, the in lays the problem really.

[Exiled Wiganer]

On attendances, on a brief and possibly inaccurate trawl...

 

Central Park got nearly 37k - it was a tight squeeze, but subsequently got 17.5k but I cannot recall the opposition (Broncos perhaps? If so, poor form)

Anfield (for Wigan) - got 20k

Old Trafford (for Widnes) - got 31k

the DW (for Saints?) - got 13.5k

5 at Headingley/McAlpine - never below 18k

Elland Road's crowds were all over 27k

Bolton's were upwards of 16k

 

Very few of these were "sold out", but many were in excess of Saints' capacity. Plus, it is the first time Saints have been able to play this genuinely at home - and if you ask me they have nobly earned that right. 

I agree with Saintslass that Wigan and Wire playing attractive opposition on the same week end could adversely affect Saints' crowd. And I agree that whether they play in front of 18k or 18 will hardly matter if they beat formidable opposition.

We are in somewhat unknown territory - the full WCC had some pretty poor crowds, whereas big event games have tended to be near capacity. We'll have to wait and see - fwiw I think Saints deserve and may well get a capacity crowd. After all, they got a big enough crowd for in the World Cup off the back, iirc, of little marketing. They know their rugby round there.

[Dave T]

On attendances, on a brief and possibly inaccurate trawl...

 

Central Park got nearly 37k - it was a tight squeeze, but subsequently got 17.5k but I cannot recall the opposition (Broncos perhaps? If so, poor form)

Anfield (for Wigan) - got 20k

Old Trafford (for Widnes) - got 31k

the DW (for Saints?) - got 13.5k

5 at Headingley/McAlpine - never below 18k

Elland Road's crowds were all over 27k

Bolton's were upwards of 16k

 

Very few of these were "sold out", but many were in excess of Saints' capacity. Plus, it is the first time Saints have been able to play this genuinely at home - and if you ask me they have nobly earned that right. 

I agree with Saintslass that Wigan and Wire playing attractive opposition on the same week end could adversely affect Saints' crowd. And I agree that whether they play in front of 18k or 18 will hardly matter if they beat formidable opposition.

We are in somewhat unknown territory - the full WCC had some pretty poor crowds, whereas big event games have tended to be near capacity. We'll have to wait and see - fwiw I think Saints deserve and may well get a capacity crowd. After all, they got a big enough crowd for in the World Cup off the back, iirc, of little marketing. They know their rugby round there.

This will be the 23rd World Club Final - even if this game sells out it will rank as only the 19th largest crowd this game has attracted.

 

Personally I think we can do better than that.

 

1 1994 ANZ Stadium 54220  

2 2005 Elland Road 37208 neutral

3 1987 Central Park 36895  

4 2008 Elland Road 33204 neutral

5 2009 Elland Road 32569 neutral

6 2014 SFS 31515  

7 1989 Old Trafford 30786 neutral

8 2010 Elland Road 27696 neutral

9 1976 SCG 26856  

10 2011 DW Stadium 24268  

11 2007 Reebok 23207 neutral

12 2002 Galpharm 21113 neutral

13 2012 Headingly 21062  

14 2013 Headingly 20,400  

15 1991 Anfield 20152 neutral

16 2003 Reebok 19807 neutral

17 2006 Galpharm 19207 neutral

18 2004 Galpharm 18962 neutral

19 1992 Central Park 17764  

20 2001 Reebok 16041 neutral

21 2000 DW Stadium 13394 neutral

22 1997 Ericsson 12000 neutral

[Exiled Wiganer]

You're such a show off with your "facts" Dave.

 

[Swansea Jack]

I apologise if I have been negative about the WCC, maybe I have not seen the big picture or understood the format of the games.

Nothing would please me more than to see full strength teams battle it out in competitive games.

I hope its a great event and may our teams fly the flag and win.

That's better. All together now. Come on Super League.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

On attendances, on a brief and possibly inaccurate trawl...

Central Park got nearly 37k - it was a tight squeeze, but subsequently got 17.5k but I cannot recall the opposition (Broncos perhaps? If so, poor form)

Anfield (for Wigan) - got 20k

Old Trafford (for Widnes) - got 31k

the DW (for Saints?) - got 13.5k

5 at Headingley/McAlpine - never below 18k

Elland Road's crowds were all over 27k

Bolton's were upwards of 16k

Very few of these were "sold out", but many were in excess of Saints' capacity. Plus, it is the first time Saints have been able to play this genuinely at home - and if you ask me they have nobly earned that right.

I agree with Saintslass that Wigan and Wire playing attractive opposition on the same week end could adversely affect Saints' crowd. And I agree that whether they play in front of 18k or 18 will hardly matter if they beat formidable opposition.

We are in somewhat unknown territory - the full WCC had some pretty poor crowds, whereas big event games have tended to be near capacity. We'll have to wait and see - fwiw I think Saints deserve and may well get a capacity crowd. After all, they got a big enough crowd for in the World Cup off the back, iirc, of little marketing. They know their rugby round there.

I think that's where our opinions differ. I don't think anyone should earn the right to have home advantage in this game. It is an event game for the sport, not just one of the two clubs in that match. It deserves more than to be just a home game. To me, it's like the equivalent of saying that the team that finishes top of the SL has earned the right to play at home in the GF. No one would ever dream of that given that we can get 70k at OT and I don't see why a game between the top two sides in the WORLD shouldn't be looking at that figure.

If we need a blank weekend to achieve that, then we should aim for that. I can understand that having other games on the same weekend is a reason we would struggle to achieve a huge figure, but not 18k. There is no reason why a club as big as Saints shouldn't be able to fill 18k for what is a big event game when they can take 20k+ to Old Trafford. Salford, maybe. Huddersfield, maybe. But not Saints.

If the thought process behind playing at a smaller ground is that they won't need to do much to fill it, then that says it all about the strategy for this event.

[Futtocks]

God, I hope the matches are more interesting than this thread's become...

[Saintslass]

Your opening post:

"I doubt the game will sell out because there are two other games within ten miles of us and in that respect we lose out where others like Leeds have not."

The part after the "because" is the beginning of an argument. The part before is your opinion. Opinions are pointless without justification so at least you've attempted to justify it, but to claim you haven't argued is just false.

 

What?  Me giving a reason for having doubts about the match not selling out constitutes starting an argument?  In which case there are an awful lot of people on here who regularly start arguments.  By your definition of argument nobody should ever provide a reason for their opinion.  Ridiculous.

[GeordieSaint]

Ticket update from Saints according to redvee states:

 

1. Less than 400 tickets left for the West Stand

2. Very limited seats available

3. Just 2000 tickets left for the East Stand

 

So probably looking at 3000 tickets left.

[Bod]

2500 sold for the East stand and 400 left in the West. Round about 1800 standing places left. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

What? Me giving a reason for having doubts about the match not selling out constitutes starting an argument?

Yes. Giving an argument for something or against something is starting an argument.

In which case there are an awful lot of people on here who regularly start arguments.

There are. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's a discussion forum. People give their arguments and argue with others. That's what happens in good discussions.

By your definition of argument nobody should ever provide a reason for their opinion. Ridiculous.

My definition? You mean the actual definition of what an argument is? "A reason or set of reasons given in support of a theory, action or idea."

Why shouldn't anyone ever provide a reason for their opinion? I actually encouraged it! No one should really give an opinion without a reason. And when you give a reason, it's an argument. Not every argument is a quarrel.

If you don't like people arguing with your argument for your opinion, is advise against giving one on a discussion forum! However, I'd rather you continue in the discussion and try to justify your opinion against counter arguments with further arguments as that's what makes a good discussion forum! If you can't, there is no shame in conceding a point.

[cookey]

Saintslass says the above information is rubbish - there are thousands of tickets left for all areas and no one is interested in the game.

 

Yes,I know,she'll still want the last word.

[Saintslass]

Saintslass says the above information is rubbish - there are thousands of tickets left for all areas and no one is interested in the game.

 

Yes,I know,she'll still want the last word.

Is that what I said?  Gosh!