Rugby History Thread

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

19 hours ago, Futtocks said:

 

Many thanks for sharing that with us all, Futtocks.

Interestingly, it confirms visually a point made just yesterday by Blind Side Johnny on the 'field goals' thread, namely that the ball used to be much rounder than it is nowadays.  Given that the ball used to be generally kicked much more than nowadays, including in broken play, you can see why a player like 'Dally' messenger became a field goal kicking specialist.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Wiltshire Warrior Dragon
spelling mistake!

[Padge]

There's nowt new, spot the elephant in the room.

Batley Reporter and Guardian - Saturday 11 May 1889

YORKSHIRE RUGBY UNION

A meeting fof the committee of this union was held at the Queen's Hotel, Leed, on Monday night, the following members being present :- Mr. M. Newsome, president (chairman): Mr. B. Kilner, vice-president: Mr. H. W. T. Garnett, ex-officio: Rev. F. Marshall (Huddersfield), Mr. A. Hartley (Calder Valley), Mr.S. Duckitt (Halifax), Mr. W. Peat (West Leeds), Mr. J. A. Miller (Leeds St. John's)...

[Number 16]

3 hours ago, Padge said:

There's nowt new, spot the elephant in the room.

Batley Reporter and Guardian - Saturday 11 May 1889

YORKSHIRE RUGBY UNION

A meeting fof the committee of this union was held at the Queen's Hotel, Leed, on Monday night, the following members being present :- Mr. M. Newsome, president (chairman): Mr. B. Kilner, vice-president: Mr. H. W. T. Garnett, ex-officio: Rev. F. Marshall (Huddersfield), Mr. A. Hartley (Calder Valley), Mr.S. Duckitt (Halifax), Mr. W. Peat (West Leeds), Mr. J. A. Miller (Leeds St. John's)...

I'm guessing it's the Master of Almondbury School whose bête noire was professionalism.

The Reverend was a regular visitor to Cumberland and on a number of occasions he refereed the County Cup Final. He refereed the 1898 final, at a time that the Cumberland clubs were starting to cross to the NU, and the words of his post match dinner speech were thought so ill-judged and insulting towards working men wanting fair recompense for loss of earnings, that far from discouraging defections, his words had the opposite effect.

The Cumberland President, Robert Westray, was cut from the same cloth as Marshall.

 

[Padge]

8 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

I'm guessing it's the Master of Almondbury School whose bête noire was professionalism.

The Reverend was a regular visitor to Cumberland and on a number of occasions he refereed the County Cup Final. He refereed the 1898 final, at a time that the Cumberland clubs were starting to cross to the NU, and the words of his post match dinner speech were thought so ill-judged and insulting towards working men wanting fair recompense for loss of earnings, that far from discouraging defections, his words had the opposite effect.

The Cumberland President, Robert Westray, was cut from the same cloth as Marshall.

 

Nope

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

If, by the elephant in the room, you mean the one who would, at one time, embrace broken time payments, would it be Barron Kilner of Wakefield Trinity, albeit he would remain a pillar of the  YRFU after the split of 1895?

[JonM]

Of those places,  the Calder Valley never really became a rugby league area - Hebden Bridge, Todmorden etc. probably didn't have the population to support professional sport. Other than that, you have Leeds, Bradford (Harry Garnett), Wakefield, Halifax, Huddersfield represented.

M Newsome (of Dewsbury?) was the representative who proposed broken time payment to the RFU in 1893, so certainly not all of the committee were in agreement with the Rev Marshall.

Can't see the "elephant in the room" though.

Edited September 3, 2020 by JonM

[Padge]

7 minutes ago, JonM said:

Of those places,  the Calder Valley never really became a rugby league area - Hebden Bridge, Todmorden etc. probably didn't have the population to support professional sport. Other than that, you have Leeds, Bradford (Harry Garnett), Wakefield, Halifax, Huddersfield represented.

M Newsome (of Dewsbury?) was the representative who proposed broken time payment to the RFU in 1893, so certainly not all of the committee were in agreement with the Rev Marshall.

Can't see the "elephant in the room" though.

You mentioned it.

[Futtocks]

8 minutes ago, Padge said:

You mentioned it.

I think you're going to have to point it out a little more obviously.

[Number 16]

Was there an actual elephant in the room but it was missed off the list of attendees. 

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

Just landed today, looking forward to reading it

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Just landed today, looking forward to reading it

Thanks for the tip-off, CF.  On my Christmas list!

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

23 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Thanks for the tip-off, CF.  On my Christmas list!

Happy to be of service. Tony Collins has actually signed it which was a nice surprise. 

[Number 16]

4 hours ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

That's an awesome cover.

I'm loving the looks of joy on the faces of all the fans... except... the two old dears just right of centre at the top!! I bet Christmas was a real hoot in their household!

[M j M]

12 hours ago, Number 16 said:

That's an awesome cover.

I'm loving the looks of joy on the faces of all the fans... except... the two old dears just right of centre at the top!! I bet Christmas was a real hoot in their household!

Saints fans?

[bobbruce]

12 hours ago, Number 16 said:

That's an awesome cover.

I'm loving the looks of joy on the faces of all the fans... except... the two old dears just right of centre at the top!! I bet Christmas was a real hoot in their household!

She does look like the old dear who came on to Central Park in the 70s to whack someone maybe she’s just getting angry ready for that. 

[Futtocks]

Spotted on Twitter.

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Spotted on Twitter.

Bloody squad numbers

[Number 16]

SA playing in black and not the nation's more recognisable dark green. Was this the norm for them in those early years? 

 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Spotted on Twitter.

Three matches in South Africa were added on to the 30-match tour schedule 'down under'.  Some were unhappy with the idea of playing in South Africa, because one of the most experienced stars of the British squad would not be allowed to play against white opponents - Billy Boston, of course!

[audois]

Saw stand off Charlie Nimb play for Hull FC at Warrington. Think he had played for the Springboks. Winger Boonzaaier played for Leigh. Lots of South Africans played the game in the 1960's.

Edited September 10, 2020 by audois

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Number 16 said:

SA playing in black and not the nation's more recognisable dark green. Was this the norm for them in those early years? 

There's some history/context around colours here - it was a real point of conflict with RU and by 1963 they had copyrighted the colours and badge to prevent RL trying to copy it. Not sure it explains why they played these games in a black kit though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springbok_colours

Edited September 10, 2020 by JonM

[Neil_Ormston]

7 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Spotted on Twitter.

Who had tweeted this Futtocks?  I was trying to track this down for a fellow collector, and now I can't seem to avoid it!  Someone sent me a link to it in the Facebook RL Collectors group earlier in the week, and then separately I received an e-mail with it attached (in relation to a completely different piece of work I'm doing on international matches), and now it's on here

Edited September 10, 2020 by Neil_Ormston

[Futtocks]

17 minutes ago, Neil_Ormston said:

Who had tweeted this Futtocks?  I was trying to track this down for a fellow collector, and now I can't seem to avoid it!  Someone sent me a link to it in the Facebook RL Collectors group earlier in the week, and then separately I received an e-mail with it attached (in relation to a completely different piece of work I'm doing on international matches), and now it's on here

Not sure. I've just gone on Twitter to find it again, and couldn't. Maybe the Tweet was deleted?

[Skids]

1 hour ago, Neil_Ormston said:

Who had tweeted this Futtocks?  I was trying to track this down for a fellow collector, and now I can't seem to avoid it!  Someone sent me a link to it in the Facebook RL Collectors group earlier in the week, and then separately I received an e-mail with it attached (in relation to a completely different piece of work I'm doing on international matches), and now it's on here

On Facebook, if that helps.

 

[Futtocks]

55 minutes ago, Skids said:

On Facebook, if that helps.

 

Looking at the creases, that's definitely the same item as appeared on Twitter.