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Saint Toppy

Our new position in the EU

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22 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

May needs to get through to October when she'll come back with no deal. Then call another referendum, Leave with no deal or Remain. Demographics suggest Remain will win by 4-7m votes. She will then declare we Remain and Bexit is dead. Also dead will be the political careers of Davis, Fox, Go and Johnson. May then will not have any rivals for her Premiership.

I am not sure I buy that argument...

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Indeed and after Johnson’s “F@*% business” comments (apologies as I know inferred swearing is against the rules on here but it’s a direct quote) it might mean a normal reservoir of Conservative support is less vocal than usual. 

Now if only the opposition was something near credible. 

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32 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I am not sure I buy that argument...

It would be like Palmerston pushing England into the Crimean war, and then declaring outrage that it was bad we were in it.  It was an about face that helped make his political career.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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"Brexit pushes Theresa May into alliance with Hungary's right-wing populists as Tories vote against sanctions"

This is a non event/story, like goes with like or any port in a storm.

France and Germany will block May's single market plan, says Spain

 

Heathrow operator Ferrovial to move international HQ over Brexit fears

 

"One wheel on my wagon

And I'm still rolling along ...."

There's more but this seemed bleak enough! After all when you've lost your moral compass ......

 

 

 

Edited by Oxford

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6 hours ago, Father Ted said:

May needs to get through to October when she'll come back with no deal. Then call another referendum, Leave with no deal or Remain. Demographics suggest Remain will win by 4-7m votes. She will then declare we Remain and Bexit is dead. Also dead will be the political careers of Davis, Fox, Go and Johnson. May then will not have any rivals for her Premiership.

 

Its a plan the relys on May being an extremely competent political tactician - I'm not sure I've seen anything to date that inspires me to believe she could pull this off!

PS - Good to hear from your Ted, hope you and yours are all well!

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:31 PM, shrek said:

No doubt this will be portrayed as a European Army we didn't sign up to sometime down the way by the usual suspects despite the fact we appear to have championed it!

Tried to tell the Brexiters amongst us before that structures already exist like this within the EU Members outside of NATO. The Combined Joint Expeditionary Force (CJEF) exists between us and the French plus a similar construct called the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) exists between us and our Northern European partners. The EU Battlegroups (who we were a founding member) have been around since the late 90s I think along with the EU Military Staff. Some former Generals prominent in the Leave campaign actually set up the two latter examples...

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1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said:

Tried to tell the Brexiters amongst us before that structures already exist like this within the EU Members outside of NATO. The Combined Joint Expeditionary Force (CJEF) exists between us and the French plus a similar construct called the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) exists between us and our Northern European partners. The EU Battlegroups (who we were a founding member) have been around since the late 90s I think along with the EU Military Staff. Some former Generals prominent in the Leave campaign actually set up the two latter examples...

I remember quite vividly doing joint exercises with our European partners in the early 1990s, they were definitely not NATO exercises either.  The amount of spare kit we traded between us was astonishing...  We also stopped complaining about the state of our equipment (for a few months anyway) when we saw the ancient and outdated stuff many of them were using.  The whole idea, as explained at the time, was that we can learn more by exposing ourselves to different military cultures.

If I remember correctly, it was scuppered when some Dads Army wannabes in the government harrumphed enough about furriners and Britain being Britain.  I believe we were being lined up to join in the European Rapid Reaction Force but that just would not sit with the Major Tory government with a wafer-thin majority.

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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20 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

 

:O

Still, blue passports.

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"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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44 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Tried to tell the Brexiters amongst us before that structures already exist like this within the EU Members outside of NATO. The Combined Joint Expeditionary Force (CJEF) exists between us and the French plus a similar construct called the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) exists between us and our Northern European partners. The EU Battlegroups (who we were a founding member) have been around since the late 90s I think along with the EU Military Staff. Some former Generals prominent in the Leave campaign actually set up the two latter examples...

I guess unless your dealing with it day in day out you live on like I do in total ignorance.

The cynic in me thinks we've not heard much about the latest announcement in the tabloids as there keeping there powder dry for the "peoples vote".

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"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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4 hours ago, Oxford said:

"Brexit pushes Theresa May into alliance with Hungary's right-wing populists as Tories vote against sanctions"

This is a non event/story, like goes with like or any port in a storm.

France and Germany will block May's single market plan, says Spain

 

Heathrow operator Ferrovial to move international HQ over Brexit fears

 

"One wheel on my wagon

And I'm still rolling along ...."

There's more but this seemed bleak enough! After all when you've lost your moral compass ......

 

 

 

Hungary is an ally.  I've no idea what your quote refers to.  Perhaps you can enlighten me?

I'd love to know how Spain knows what May's plan is.  Does May know?  The cabinet hasn't been on its away day yet.

Ferrovial isn't moving its international HQ out of the UK because of Brexit fears.  It is moving out because it is a Spanish company and needs to keep its international HQ in the EU in order to conform with EU regulations.  Its only been based in Oxford for a few years. 

I would suggest that you check the stories before you post the headlines because invariably you're just throwing the headlines in there and they are invariably either meaningless or not what you'd like them to be.  Your posts just look silly.

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10 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

It is moving out because it is a Spanish company and needs to keep its international HQ in the EU in order to conform with EU regulations.

Precisely; regardless of how you dress it up, the UK loses and the EU gains BECAUSE OF BREXIT!

Edited by Griff9of13

"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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37 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Ferrovial isn't moving its international HQ out of the UK because of Brexit fears.

Project Fear becomes Reality!

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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From the Private Eye -

DgohRZ-WAAcljsp.jpg


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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14 hours ago, ckn said:

I see your point but Cameron had a genuine minority Tory party who had to keep working with the Lib Dems and there was almost complete Cabinet agreement and solidarity.  The whiny backbench MPs were just that, whiny MPs.

the "whiny MPs" as you describe them turned out to be backed by the majority of the British electorate!

I assume you think they (52%) are also "whinny" whereas the other EU states who refused British requests for small concessions  are above such things?  As immigration  issues throw the EU into turmoil , they have agreed measures way beyond  what the UK asked for and was refused!

I always though that parties were elected on their manifesto promises in this country but you and the Labour party seem to consider election manifestos as some sort of flannel to confuse voters and open to change depending on the day and who you ask.

I don't expect a party who lost an election to stick with the promises it lost with, but it needs to accept it or stand with new policies.

Wouldn't it be nice if people accepted the second EU  referendum result and devoted their energy to pushing UK achievements and worldwide power rather than trying to belittle the country, they claim to hold dear!

Just a thought!

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8 minutes ago, kiyan said:

the "whiny MPs" as you describe them turned out to be backed by the majority of the British electorate!

I assume you think they (52%) are also "whinny" whereas the other EU states who refused British requests for small concessions  are above such things?  As immigration  issues throw the EU into turmoil , they have agreed measures way beyond  what the UK asked for and was refused!

I always though that parties were elected on their manifesto promises in this country but you and the Labour party seem to consider election manifestos as some sort of flannel to confuse voters and open to change depending on the day and who you ask.

I don't expect a party who lost an election to stick with the promises it lost with, but it needs to accept it or stand with new policies.

Wouldn't it be nice if people accepted the second EU  referendum result and devoted their energy to pushing UK achievements and worldwide power rather than trying to belittle the country, they claim to hold dear!

Just a thought!

You might not have noticed but apart from a bit of bluster, Labour are yet to do anything that stops Brexit or allows for another referendum.

Its so far been internal Tory party issues that have delayed any plans.  Until they actually decide what they want, everyone else is sitting around.  There’s another away day in a week or so to sort it out...

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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29 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Labour are yet to do anything that stops Brexit or allows for another referendum.

But as they're leavers why would they and why would we expect it?

This trend of everyone against is not only wrong but disloyal to the country needs to be brought up short and treated as the nonsense it clearly is.

It seems that in all these arguments the electorate and those who voted is used interchangeably.

Mystic Charles .....

"Charles De Gaulle twice vetoed the UK’s membership of the EEC in 1963 and 1967. At a press conference in 1963, he cited Britain’s economic and historical ‘peculiarities’, including its links to the United States as well as the Commonwealth, which, in his view, had the potential to impact upon the future cohesion of the Common Market.

At a meeting in 1967, De Gaulle further set out his case against Britain’s entry into the EEC. He argued that the country’s historical links to the Commonwealth and links with America meant that British entry into the Community would be destabilising and that Britain would be a divisive force amongst member states.

As Professor Jackson explains: “If you read the speech he made in 1963, where he vetoed Britain’s entry into the Common Market, much of what he said has proved to be true.

“In his speech a lot of the things he says negatively about Britain are very similar to the types of things that Brexiteers say positively. De Gaulle claimed that Britain was not fundamentally European ....."

I can't imagine where he could possibly have got that idea from! Stopped spinning in his tomb and now just repeats - I told you so, I told you so ......

Edited by Oxford

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34 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

You might not have noticed but apart from a bit of bluster, Labour are yet to do anything that stops Brexit or allows for another referendum.

Its so far been internal Tory party issues that have delayed any plans.  Until they actually decide what they want, everyone else is sitting around.  There’s another away day in a week or so to sort it out...

You might have missed the hundred or so amendments in the commons and 2/3 of which were only defeated by single figures.

You might also have missed large labour party rebellions, or issues were the party gave  a "free vote" to avoid a rebellion. or you can try focus on Tory party  issues to pretend they are not divisions in both parties.

That sort of spin only lasts so long for either party , eventually the divisions spill out in public.

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6 minutes ago, kiyan said:

You might have missed the hundred or so amendments in the commons and 2/3 of which were only defeated by single figures.

You might also have missed large labour party rebellions, or issues were the party gave  a "free vote" to avoid a rebellion. or you can try focus on Tory party  issues to pretend they are not divisions in both parties.

That sort of spin only lasts so long for either party , eventually the divisions spill out in public.

If you think the divisions in labour policies and views are somehow being ignored on this forum then I suggest you read more. 

 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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12 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

If you think the divisions in labour policies and views are somehow being ignored on this forum then I suggest you read more. 

 

Your post was about the opposition ( the labour party) and that is what I responded to.  Specifically about amendments and votes in the House of Commons.

If you want to talk about this forum, maybe you should open a new thread or talk to the admin?

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2 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

If you think the divisions in labour policies and views are somehow being ignored on this forum then I suggest you read more. 

 

It doesn't make any difference which end of the forest you're looking from it's almost impossible to see the timber.

BMW have had a change of heart or not been got at or told that afterwards it'll be even easier more profitable because they'll be able to pay people even less or all of the above .... or .... the Good Fairies are in town.

 

 


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3 hours ago, kiyan said:

I always though that parties were elected on their manifesto promises in this country

Page 26 of the 2017 Conservative Party Manifesto reads;

Quote

We will grant a free vote, on a government bill in government time, to give parliament the opportunity to decide the future of the Hunting Act.

Whens the vote?

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10 hours ago, Griff9of13 said:

Precisely; regardless of how you dress it up, the UK loses and the EU gains BECAUSE OF BREXIT!

As I also said, but you didn't include in your post, the HQ has only been in Oxford for a few years (three, I think), so it's hardly going to be missed.  It's a Spanish company.  Why did it have its international HQ here in the first place?  I would have thought it would have been in Spain.  I don't see it as a loss at all.  It's just business.  Some businesses have been investing in the UK post Brexit (see Boeing and Amazon for example or the Japanese car company in Sunderland - I can never remember which one it is!), some will be reorganising, some will neither invest nor reorganise.  Meanwhile, British retailers close on a regular basis because people prefer to shop online but that gets no attention on here at all, presumably because being nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit it is not of any use to your agenda.  Yet far more jobs have been lost over the last couple of years from British retailers going bust than have been affected by Brexit.

Edited by Saintslass

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