May's Speech

[Robin Evans]

Bug ger me.... I actually agree with most of that.....

It does give me a lift to see the Tories in disarray.... and I'm aware of the irony of the impact such turmoil will have on the country....

A few percentage points t'other way of course may well see a Labour govt returned.....

Dead woman walking.... there is a degree of embarrassment watch or listening to her. How on earth she is regarded overseas Lord only knows

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

However, she is big on duty - that is her background and her age range - and so she is dutifully carrying on, getting battered from every angle.  

There's no point dutifully carrying on if you're doing more damage that way.

[ckn]

13 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I think that following the election, which was a risk she didn't need to take, she will have wanted nothing else but to resign.  However, she is big on duty - that is her background and her age range - and so she is dutifully carrying on, getting battered from every angle.  If her mental health can withstand it, there are no more mishaps or terrorist attacks (which actually there weren't when she was in charge of the Home Office - interesting, that), then there is a possibility the current shambles can be turned around.  After all, the Tories polled their biggest number of votes since 1983 in that election and are still polling around 40% and that is even with an atrocious election campaign, terrible manifesto, numerous tragedies and many mishaps.  Just a few percentage rise in the polls and the Tories would be through to a proper majority.  They need to start thinking like that rather than shrieking about Corbyn.  Once they change their collective mindset things will start to improve, not only for the Tories but also for the country which actually needs a functioning government rather than one in which Grant Schapps thinks he is big dog.

Terror attacks in the UK since 2010.  Theresa May was Home Secretary from 12 May 2010 to 13 July 2016 then PM from that point on.

[westlondonfan]

21 hours ago, John Drake said:

Who knows. Can only speculate, but they could have been PM by now.

I don’t think the Blairites and ex- Blairites really appeal to students and young people anymore. I guess the war in Iraq is part of the reason for that. Another Blairite, even if younger and unconnected with the last Labour wouldn’t have been elected PM by now  if all other circumstances had stated the same. They would have been far more pro-Remain and it was the Labour vote in St Helens and Sunderland etc that swung it for Brexit in my view.

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

I don’t think the Blairites and ex- Blairites really appeal to students and young people anymore. I guess the war in Iraq is part of the reason for that. Another Blairite, even if younger and unconnected with the last Labour wouldn’t have been elected PM by now  if all other circumstances had stated the same. They would have been far more pro-Remain and it was the Labour vote in St Helens and Sunderland etc that swung it for Brexit in my view.

We'll never know.

What's a Blairite anyway?

[longboard]

7 minutes ago, John Drake said:

We'll never know.

What's a Blairite anyway?

A Labour party member who understands what it is to win elections?

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

I don’t think the Blairites and ex- Blairites really appeal to students and young people anymore. I guess the war in Iraq is part of the reason for that.

My nephew gets to vote for the next time next year.

He was three when the war in Iraq was fought.

I doubt it'll be in his thinking.

[John Drake]

It's as if most people don't watch party conferences...

 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

It's as if most people don't watch party conferences...

 

The Tories usually get a 3-4 point bounce from their conference so that's actually not great.

All within the margin of error now - either side could be top, neither could form a government.

[John Drake]

Just now, gingerjon said:

The Tories usually get a 3-4 point bounce from their conference so that's actually not great.

All within the margin of error now - either side could be top, neither could form a government.

Considering how unspeakably dreadful their conference was, to still be polling 40% is an incredible result for the Tories IMO.

Labour's current nauseating triumphalism is about as well judged now as Kinnock's was on the eve of the '92 election.

[gingerjon]

Just now, John Drake said:

Considering how unspeakably dreadful their conference was, to still be polling 40% is an incredible result for the Tories IMO.

Labour's current nauseating triumphalism is about as well judged now as Kinnock's was on the eve of the '92 election.

I wish I could remember where I read it - I think it might have been Hugo Rifkind - wrote this week, "Both Labour and the Tories are looking over at their opponents and going, 'How are we not beating this lot 6-0?'"

[ckn]

10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I wish I could remember where I read it - I think it might have been Hugo Rifkind - wrote this week, "Both Labour and the Tories are looking over at their opponents and going, 'How are we not beating this lot 6-0?'"

Based on the coverage and beliefs I've seen, here's what I'd believe:  On one side, you have a party led by serial incompetents who want to privatise the world while being able to flog any unemployed person for daring to claim benefits.  On the other side, you have a party led by serial incompetents who want to institute a Stalinist version of totalitarian communism with anyone earning over average wage taxed at 99% marginal taxation.  The paid-for media and the blogosphere really have no shades of grey in their interpretations and that sinks in to those who listen to them.

In reality, you have two main parties with leaders no-one really wants bar a core of people so one-eyed that they'd have difficulty comprehending that there are other views, never mind realistic ones.  On one side, you have Calamity May with the front-runner options to replace her being a blithering blonde idiot and a less jovial skinny version.  Can you seriously imagine Boris or Rees-Mogg as our PM having to go represent us abroad?  On the other side, you have an idealist numpty with the political agility of a dead elephant backed up by a shadow cabinet that is mainly the dregs of the party that would struggle to run a car boot sale stall.  Can you seriously imagine Corbyn and Abbott in power?

I vote Labour as the least-worst option rather than a definite drive to them as a party.

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Considering how unspeakably dreadful their conference was, to still be polling 40% is an incredible result for the Tories IMO.

Labour's current nauseating triumphalism is about as well judged now as Kinnock's was on the eve of the '92 election.

And their percentage went up by 1, which I think is outstanding.  Even as a convinced Tory I found the party conference exceptionally dull, dire and dreadful. 

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I wish I could remember where I read it - I think it might have been Hugo Rifkind - wrote this week, "Both Labour and the Tories are looking over at their opponents and going, 'How are we not beating this lot 6-0?'"

Was that a Guardian article?

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Considering how unspeakably dreadful their conference was, to still be polling 40% is an incredible result for the Tories IMO.

Labour's current nauseating triumphalism is about as well judged now as Kinnock's was on the eve of the '92 election.

Staggering isn’t it - the memory of the GE election campaign will fade for many over the coming months and despite Boris’ best efforts, Labour will really need to show some competence in Parliament if they are to seriously dent the Tory-vote share. 

[Tongs ya bas]

May has attracted sympathy and support for her mess of a speech.

Yet all Milliband had to do was eat a bacon sandwich in an unaesthetic way and he was crucified.

[Martyn Sadler]

4 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

May has attracted sympathy and support for her mess of a speech.

Yet all Milliband had to do was eat a bacon sandwich in an unaesthetic way and he was crucified.

Maybe people are more sympathetic towards a woman than they are towards a man, particularly when the misfortunes come in threes.

[Bob8]

2 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

May has attracted sympathy and support for her mess of a speech.

Yet all Milliband had to do was eat a bacon sandwich in an unaesthetic way and he was crucified.

The latter line is pretty pertinent when Labour is accused of anti-Semitism.

[Tongs ya bas]

37 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Maybe people are more sympathetic towards a woman than they are towards a man, particularly when the misfortunes come in threes.

Aye, maybe.

It's a pity the same courtesy wasn't extended to Diane Abbott(she's a woman you know), when she(exhausted and ill), forgot a statistic.

[shrek]

4 hours ago, Saintslass said:

I think that following the election, which was a risk she didn't need to take, she will have wanted nothing else but to resign.  However, she is big on duty - that is her background and her age range - and so she is dutifully carrying on, getting battered from every angle.  If her mental health can withstand it, there are no more mishaps or terrorist attacks (which actually there weren't when she was in charge of the Home Office - interesting, that), then there is a possibility the current shambles can be turned around.  After all, the Tories polled their biggest number of votes since 1983 in that election and are still polling around 40% and that is even with an atrocious election campaign, terrible manifesto, numerous tragedies and many mishaps.  Just a few percentage rise in the polls and the Tories would be through to a proper majority.  They need to start thinking like that rather than shrieking about Corbyn.  Once they change their collective mindset things will start to improve, not only for the Tories but also for the country which actually needs a functioning government rather than one in which Grant Schapps thinks he is big dog.

With the election she was damned if she did, damned if she didn't.  If it had gone the way I think we all expected, Labour would still be looking for a new leader and the Conservatives would have had a free run for 6 months+.  If she hadn't called it and things had turned against her I doubt she'd ever have shaken off the comparisons with Brown and when he "bottled it"/Sensibly Chose not to have an early election!

Fair play to her for carrying on, but I don't see any one in her cabinet busting a gut to make her agenda a reality, in many ways, regardless of political hue, when parties turn as this one seems to have done and the knives are out, I'd quite enjoy seeing the back stabbers and the plotters left to deal with there own mess.

I think it was James O Brian who made the point earlier today, its hard to believe its only a couple of years since Milliband and Cameron where dancing around the middle ground of British politics!

As a complete aside Gove was interviewed by Nick Ferrari this morning on LBC and as much as I'm not particularly fond of him, it's highly entertaining, especially when he filibustered a pause by Ferrari who was trying to move the conversation from the Ivory trade to May's position with talk on last nights England football match!

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Tongs ya bas said:

Aye, maybe.

It's a pity the same courtesy wasn't extended to Diane Abbott(she's a woman you know), when she(exhausted and ill), forgot a statistic.

Neither May nor Abbott have been let off.

I will say the reaction to Milliband's bacon sandwich would have been considered unacceptable anti-semiticism, has it been the other way round.

[westlondonfan]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

My nephew gets to vote for the next time next year.

He was three when the war in Iraq was fought.

I doubt it'll be in his thinking.

My dad hadn’t been born in the 1930s but I know about Chamberlain’s role at Munich. The Chilcott enquiry was published in 2016 to massive publicity.

[westlondonfan]

5 hours ago, longboard said:

A Labour party member who understands what it is to win elections?

Very good! But none of his followers have been able to get elected though? Maybe there is only one Tony Blair and  due to his reputation as result of his actions in the Iraq war unfortunately he won’t be able to make a comeback-

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, westlondonfan said:

My dad hadn’t been born in the 1930s but I know about Chamberlain’s role at Munich. 

Does it affect the way you vote 80 odd years later?

[Tongs ya bas]

4 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Neither May nor Abbott have been let off.

I will say the reaction to Milliband's bacon sandwich would have been considered unacceptable anti-semiticism, has it been the other way round.

May has received sympathetic press for her mishaps. I don't recall Abbott getting the same treatment. I'm happy being corrected on that one.