Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Future is League

"Your watching the birth of a Superstar"

Recommended Posts

There was another young behemoth for manly today and warren smith talked about the arms race of players getting bigger . Got me thinking about the pros and cons of becoming a game of monsters where sheer physicality and measurements are paramount ,and  across the paddock it's about bulking up .The collisions and intensity is huge , but is there a downside from the previous generations in terms of fluidity and mobility ?  We can't take the smaller lighter  type player to the margins of the game , but it seems it's moving ever one way when you look at the junior ranks especially 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, DavidM said:

There was another young behemoth for manly today and warren smith talked about the arms race of players getting bigger . Got me thinking about the pros and cons of becoming a game of monsters where sheer physicality and measurements are paramount ,and  across the paddock it's about bulking up .The collisions and intensity is huge , but is there a downside from the previous generations in terms of fluidity and mobility ?  We can't take the smaller lighter  type player to the margins of the game , but it seems it's moving ever one way when you look at the junior ranks especially 

Drop the number of subs allowed , take the air from the behemoths lungs that slows them down .

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, henage said:

Drop the number of subs allowed , take the air from the behemoths lungs that slows them down .

Mmm you’d think they need to think around how all this affects the nature of the game . And the knock on effect is they bulk up those lighter guys as much as possible to compensate 

Edited by DavidM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DavidM said:

Mmm you’d think they need to think around how all this affects the nature of the game . And the knock on effect is they bulk up those lighter guys as much as possible to compensate 

A bulked up player is useless without basic skills.

 

4 hours ago, DavidM said:

There was another young behemoth for manly today and warren smith talked about the arms race of players getting bigger . Got me thinking about the pros and cons of becoming a game of monsters where sheer physicality and measurements are paramount ,and  across the paddock it's about bulking up .The collisions and intensity is huge , but is there a downside from the previous generations in terms of fluidity and mobility ?  We can't take the smaller lighter  type player to the margins of the game , but it seems it's moving ever one way when you look at the junior ranks especially 

Can you tell me of a period when coaches didn't want big strong forwards? In Saints backline you've got Barba, Grace, Percival and Richardson who are all really skinny. Where is the evidence that it is all about size?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, henage said:

Drop the number of subs allowed , take the air from the behemoths lungs that slows them down .

The NRL did that last season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The kid is huge that's for sure,but I don't think that the nrl are corn feeding every young prospect that's coming through their ranks.They certainly look after them from a health point of view and training regimes and the benefits are there for all to see. A particular  video on YouTube (nrls  2018 best prospects) I think,gives us a glimpse of why we need more reserve grade rugby over here and also shows us the next generation of kangaroos that are going to be kicking our backsides for at least another ten years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

A bulked up player is useless without basic skills.

 

Can you tell me of a period when coaches didn't want big strong forwards? In Saints backline you've got Barba, Grace, Percival and Richardson who are all really skinny. Where is the evidence that it is all about size?

I think this is more of an NRL thing at the moment. On average they're easily an average of 10kg heavier per man the SL teams and they have the speed and skill to back up it. 

SL will have to move in the same direction if it wants to keep up with the NRL and internationally. 

RL isn't the only sport where players have got bigger and more athletic over the years - you can certainly apply it to RU and NFL too so it's hardly surprising really. I think as long as the skill level is always there along side the speed and strength then it just makes the game look better. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Davo5 said:

The NRL did that last season.

Yeh reflecting on this thread I was concentrating on the NRL . It’s a huge discussion point down there and there are some very interesting and numerous articles from down there when you research this subject on google , ten year trends etc , the Polynesian influence ,the nature of the youth game regards to size and stature etc . They worry about guys say like JT being marginalised and talk about interchanges and ensuring fatigue . And getting a proper balance in how the game is . The fitness and conditioning levels mean though that many of these guys can maintain speed and mobility with it , and guys like Dufty and Addo Carr can exploit what they have against them , so as I say it’s not black n white but something that as a spectacle you notice and engenders debate 

Edited by DavidM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, The Future is League said:

I was watching Brody Croft last year and thinking this year he will tear it up. Didn't work out that way. Pressure is a funny thing, how Haas handles it and if he lives up the hype remains to be seen. Hope he goes well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I think this is more of an NRL thing at the moment. On average they're easily an average of 10kg heavier per man the SL teams and they have the speed and skill to back up it. 

SL will have to move in the same direction if it wants to keep up with the NRL and internationally. 

RL isn't the only sport where players have got bigger and more athletic over the years - you can certainly apply it to RU and NFL too so it's hardly surprising really. I think as long as the skill level is always there along side the speed and strength then it just makes the game look better. 

Yeah but I think the average player is getting bigger and stronger, and that doesn't necessarily mean there is no room for small blokes, clubs are just better at getting small players bigger and stronger now. The argument I take issue with is that there is no room for small players anymore, that the likes of JT would slip through the net now. Ash Taylor is one of the highest rated prospects in the NRL and is 88kg. Matt Dufty is 80kg. Bevan French is 83kg. If the game was all about bulking up and measurements, these players would not exist.

The answer is different at youth level, and weight categories there is a good idea I think, but at NRL level, if you are a small player but you are skillful enough you can make it. Plenty of big blokes who aren't skillful enough don't make it. That always has and always will be the case.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

Yeah but I think the average player is getting bigger and stronger, and that doesn't necessarily mean there is no room for small blokes, clubs are just better at getting small players bigger and stronger now. The argument I take issue with is that there is no room for small players anymore, that the likes of JT would slip through the net now. Ash Taylor is one of the highest rated prospects in the NRL and is 88kg. Matt Dufty is 80kg. Bevan French is 83kg. If the game was all about bulking up and measurements, these players would not exist.

The answer is different at youth level, and weight categories there is a good idea I think, but at NRL level, if you are a small player but you are skillful enough you can make it. Plenty of big blokes who aren't skillful enough don't make it. That always has and always will be the case.

Yeh that’s fair point and long may it be the case 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could argue dufty and addo carr are the two most exciting players in the NRL to watch right now when they get the ball along with ponga 

Edited by DavidM
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

Yeah but I think the average player is getting bigger and stronger, and that doesn't necessarily mean there is no room for small blokes, clubs are just better at getting small players bigger and stronger now. The argument I take issue with is that there is no room for small players anymore, that the likes of JT would slip through the net now. Ash Taylor is one of the highest rated prospects in the NRL and is 88kg. Matt Dufty is 80kg. Bevan French is 83kg. If the game was all about bulking up and measurements, these players would not exist.

The answer is different at youth level, and weight categories there is a good idea I think, but at NRL level, if you are a small player but you are skillful enough you can make it. Plenty of big blokes who aren't skillful enough don't make it. That always has and always will be the case.

I agree that smaller players shouldn't be dismissed purely on that basis. There should always be a route through for the players like you've mentioned above. That said it does appear to be the case that the way the game is played now you're more likely to make it pro as an 'average' big bloke than a 'good' small bloke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I agree that smaller players shouldn't be dismissed purely on that basis. There should always be a route through for the players like you've mentioned above. That said it does appear to be the case that the way the game is played now you're more likely to make it pro as an 'average' big bloke than a 'good' small bloke.

I think a lot of that comes through the selection process though. With selecting at u15s and u16s, the big kids at that point are more likely to be noticed and what might actually be greater physical maturity may come across as the big kid being more skillful or athletic. The small but skillful players often seem fine when they make it to first grade, but there is probably issues with selection along the pathway. I'd also say that coaches would probably prefer a 'good' small bloke over an 'average' big bloke - it's easier to turn a small player to a decent size, than turn a limited (but big) player to a decent level of skill! This would be the case moreso if we didn't have stupidly short pre-seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game has (or is) certainly moving away from small forwards. Locks are third props these days, and the second row is where the big athletes go. Backs can still be smaller obviously, but even then centres under 90kg can be exposed, and big wingers also add a lot of value. So yes, there's less opportunities for the smaller men in today's game. They're really only going to make it if they compensate their lack of size with something special - speed, playmaking etc. There will always be room for those players, but what this leaves out is the good honest toiler of days goneby... Second rowers today need to be power athletes, not workers who can make 50 tackles. Anyone of that I'll needs to learn to pass, because hooker is the only spot going.

And as for this rising superstar, he's great news for Brisbane! We've been crying out for a big damaging middle forward for a while, and now with Pangai Jr maturing and this new kid, we might have two! 

Edited by ghost crayfish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can only use the 4 men on the bench once they would certainly alter the game for the better in my eyes, as coaches would have to think very carefully about which players could do the whole 80 minutes without being subbed and those who couldn't

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s funny nowadays how they talk about how many minutes a guy does and he averages 23 minutes or whatever . Look at Kasiano , it’s often a joke what he does . If you do 80 it’s medal winning stuff when it just used to be everyday ! Even after 10 minutes play they’re talking about fatiguing . Certainly in many ways it’s a different game . Continuing to reduce interchange certainly will be interesting 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all about this war of attrition for field position so we 5 drives and a kick for 20 minutes and then just when the big men get tired and the smaller one come into play on come the subs. I think the reduction in subs has made the Aussie game better and as mentioned above the  smaller fast and agile players can be outstanding. Its the lads in between who are struggling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:48 AM, deluded pom? said:

I see on wiki he’s of Swiss, Filipino and Samoan descent. 

So, come the next RL World Cup, he might opt to turn out for Switzerland!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, deluded pom? said:

You’re living in cloud cuckoo clock land.

Great stuff, DP!

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...