Wolfpack games NOT being televised

[RobertAM]

1 minute ago, Gav Wilson said:

People still listen to Parky?

Bloke's puddled.

He's fun to wind up though....

[Kayakman]

8 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

Oh oh Parky has climbed out of his hole again...spouting his tiresome, bitter and twisted, rambling repetitive nonsense..in his view the game was fighting fit until the Wolfpack came along ruining everything by forming a winning club, introducing hordes of foreign fans to the game, forcing many heartland fans to take holidays and travel thousands of miles to see their team compete in front of SL size crowds, encouraging more Canadian and American teams to enter the competition and make things worse..and  having the audacity to not have formed homegrown talent pools despite having nearly 3 years(!) to make it happen. Pull up the drawbridge...Barbarians are at the gate!.

 

Be careful Robert...according to Parky he can now predict the future.  So far he is refusing to tell us (selfish; won't share)  if Toronto will win SL next year or the year after.   Think about this for a sec...he won't tell...WHY NOT?-there is,  of course,  another scenario, one which frightens Parky so much that his eyes are averted in horror and dread and shock and many other bad things every time he checks that crystal ball.

Toronto is going to win SL in BOTH of those years^:  Come On PARKY....OUT WITH IT!!!!!!!!

[TIWIT]

Just now, Kayakman said:

Be careful Robert...according to Parky he can now predict the future.  So far he is refusing to tell us (selfish; won't share)  if Toronto will win SL next year or the year after.   Think about this for a sec...he won't tell...WHY NOT?-there is,  of course,  another scenario, one which frightens Parky so much that his eyes are averted in horror and dread and shock and many other bad things every time he checks that crystal ball.

Torontpo is going to win SL in BOTH of those years^:  Come On PARKY....OUT WITH IT!!!!!!!!

I can answer that for him - TWP won't be around by then. But Leigh will win it all, stocked with all the refugees from TWP.

[The Parksider]

13 hours ago, TIWIT said:

You're right there, you are always good for a laugh.But why do you even care? If TWP and Argyle and Perez are going to just go away in another couple of years, what harm have they done to the game you so obviously love? Everything will go back to the way it was, a sleepy little competition based in northern England, slowly bleeding to death.

I was laughing back in 2016 when Perez popped up and declared he'd convert many of the thousands of failed college grid iron players to Rugby League, and put them into teams at new clubs run by wealthy Canadian/USA Investors in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Hamilton, and then down into New York and Boston. All these clubs would progressively replace Hull.K.R., Salford, Castleford, Wakefield, Huddersfield and Widnes who apparently were "nobodies" all dying on their feet, until the resultant Transatlantic League would then attract a multi-$$Million dollar NATV deal that would then inspire the game to explode across North America. 

My first question is "Why did you guys buy this nonsense?".  Three years on and as Mr. McManus has publicly and deliberately said all that Perez has delivered is "An English SL team dressed up in Canadian jerseys run by an antipodean" .

 My second question is "Why did you guys think that the six English clubs I mention and their owners and their 40K fans would be happy to just stand aside and let Mr. Perez save the game here by closing down these clubs here as professional entities, and putting their players into North American jerseys?.

My third question is "Had it been a success (hey I am talking hypothetically here ) can you  not get it that that "Transatlantic League" would soon have become all American.

But this never was going to work because only about 20 English fans (all on here amongst you Canadian guys) really want to see Superleague dismantled, and shipped to America like the Queen Mary liner. All the nice noises made by many here and in the press whether it is club owners, club fans, journalists etc is just the English being their polite selves. I don't know, we may be polite enough and welcoming enough to allow TWP to enter Superleague if they win the Championship. I only reflect that the Superleague bosses are not at all keen on this because like me they can see it's all phoney. However refusing what people wrongly think is expansion may end up in some very bad publicity for the game which is TWP's only card they can play.

But for me it has to be stopped now, because if an English club goes down, and a phoney club goes up, then all we get is another repeat of Perez putting English players into American jerseys at Ottawa, and this could not go on without SKY saying that they need an English League because that's what their viewers who pay the subs want, English clubs playing each other in Superleague. I care because the Perez plan is totally destructive for the game here kill the SKY deal kill the game. It's a shame you guys really believe SL and their fans will be happy to have their clubs dismantled and the TV deal torn up here to create a phoney Canadian pro-game just to titilate you guys, Perez and Argyle...............Now try to reply without insults

On 08/07/2019 at 04:40, ojx said:

Thanks for the information. I was interested to know how actively SL clubs were involved at the younger ages of player development. I wonder if this is true of all the SL teams? Do they all run these foundations?

There's always one isn't there!! No I don't mean that in a derogative way. In this case I mean someone who is prepared to act like we were discussing this in the pub, and to do it with some manners in an adult way. In a way their wives and girlfriends would be happy with, not chucking insults from behind a bedroom keyboard.

Yes all SL clubs were funded by the SKY contract to run "Foundations" which are staffed and are active in promoting Rugby League in the areas it has a foothold. I don't think we have many strongholds, even at the biggest clubs we share the local population with people who prefer soccer and union. Having said that participation is heavily down in all three games as the excellent post by Marty Funkhouser set out.

Obviously if RL is not played in city or town it's fairly impossible to get the local populace to play it when they have Union and Soccer (and in your case grid iron) and they are familiar with it and have facilities for it. So our players mainly come from three pockets of the North of England - Hull, West Yorkshire, and central Lancashire. The player base is so small you can go to cities like Sheffield, Liverpool and Manchester and find little RL played.

So the promotion of this tiny player base becomes very important indeed. I could set it out better than this but basically we are struggling for quality players to underpin the TV contract, hence we have to keep that flow going despite the really stupid posts above that think quality doesn't matter and SKY will pay £200M just for anyone to play.

The bottom line is Perez understood this so he promised grid iron conversions. He didn't enter the game on the ticket of developing kids, and Argyle is certainly not interested in that either. Now it's all failed Perez talks about developing kids to become Superleague players, "as long as it takes" he says. More jam tommorrow promises that become even harder to swallow........

 

 

[Omott91]

30 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

My first question is "Why did you guys buy this nonsense?".  Three years on and as Mr. McManus has publicly and deliberately said all that Perez has delivered is "An English SL team dressed up in Canadian jerseys run by an antipodean" .

 My second question is "Why did you guys think that the six English clubs I mention and their owners and their 40K fans would be happy to just stand aside and let Mr. Perez save the game here by closing down these clubs here as professional entities, and putting their players into North American jerseys?.

But this never was going to work because only about 20 English fans (all on here amongst you Canadian guys) really want to see Superleague dismantled, and shipped to America like the Queen Mary liner. All the nice noises made by many here and in the press whether it is club owners, club fans, journalists etc is just the English being their polite selves. I don't know, we may be polite enough and welcoming enough to allow TWP to enter Superleague if they win the Championship. I only reflect that the Superleague bosses are not at all keen on this because like me they can see it's all phoney. However refusing what people wrongly think is expansion may end up in some very bad publicity for the game which is TWP's only card they can play.

But for me it has to be stopped now, because if an English club goes down, and a phoney club goes up, then all we get is another repeat of Perez putting English players into American jerseys at Ottawa, and this could not go on without SKY saying that they need an English League because that's what their viewers who pay the subs want, English clubs playing each other in Superleague. I care because the Perez plan is totally destructive for the game here kill the SKY deal kill the game. It's a shame you guys really believe SL and their fans will be happy to have their clubs dismantled and the TV deal torn up here to create a phoney Canadian pro-game just to titilate you guys, Perez and Argyle...............Now try to reply without insults

 

 

This nonsense you speak of has resulted in a very real, tangible stable club that has successfully built a strong supporter base, increased rl media coverage more so than any northern hemisphere club has in living memory all in a new continent within 3 years. You tell me why rugby league fans wouldn't think this is great and great for the game. I believe this view would be quite common.    

You keep saying uk fans have to stand aside and close clubs down yet the evidence says otherwise. Leigh for example, the club many feel are negatively effected by Toronto, are pretty much still in the same on and off field position as they were in twp's inception. Fighting for a finals position and none of their fans have disappeared because of twp. Look at their attendances historically for proof. As for Widnes' drop, it has nothing to do with twp's existence at all. That is solely on their poor form on and off the field and completely independent from twp's existence yet your arguments would insenuate it's because of twp.        

Over to you 

[TheReaper]

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I was laughing back in 2016 when Perez popped up and declared he'd convert many of the thousands of failed college grid iron players to Rugby League, and put them into teams at new clubs run by wealthy Canadian/USA Investors in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Hamilton, and then down into New York and Boston. All these clubs would progressively replace Hull.K.R., Salford, Castleford, Wakefield, Huddersfield and Widnes who apparently were "nobodies" all dying on their feet, until the resultant Transatlantic League would then attract a multi-$$Million dollar NATV deal that would then inspire the game to explode across North America. 

My first question is "Why did you guys buy this nonsense?". 

That "nonsense" was made up by you, not Eric Perez. He didn't say 5 or 6 clubs had to replace English clubs, only that 5 or 6 were needed for a critical mass to get a good offer. Which is fairly obvious, and also obvious that those two things wouldn't be able to happen exactly concurrently. We're in that in between phase.

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Three years on and as Mr. McManus has publicly and deliberately said all that Perez has delivered is "An English SL team dressed up in Canadian jerseys run by an antipodean" .

So xenophobic, dude. When players come from wherever else in our world to play for our cities, we accept them. This is professional sports, not representative sports. There's a difference. Why it matters where anyone involved is from is beyond me. David Argyle believes in the people of Toronto, the players believe in him, his coaches and the fans, and the fans believe in all of them. 

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 My second question is "Why did you guys think that the six English clubs I mention and their owners and their 40K fans would be happy to just stand aside

Stand aside? We're talking about your precious promotion and relegation here. If a team is relegated, they weren't good enough. Who goes up in their place does not change that fact.

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

and let Mr. Perez save the game here by closing down these clubs here as professional entities, and putting their players into North American jerseys?.

Did all the past relegated clubs fold? If not then you're making stuff up. We're talking about your precious promotion and relegation here  this would just allow them to play at a more appropriate level if relegated out of the top, no?

As for the players themselves- nobody is forcing them to do anything. They agree to sign up to play for TWP, and fly across the ocean for games, and live in Toronto for part of the year, because they WANT to PLAY FOR TORONTO.

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 

My third question is "Had it been a success (hey I am talking hypothetically here ) can you  not get it that that "Transatlantic League" would soon have become all American.

But this never was going to work because only about 20 English fans (all on here amongst you Canadian guys) really want to see Superleague dismantled, and shipped to America like the Queen Mary liner. All the nice noises made by many here and in the press whether it is club owners, club fans, journalists etc is just the English being their polite selves. I don't know, we may be polite enough and welcoming enough to allow TWP to enter Superleague if they win the Championship. I only reflect that the Superleague bosses are not at all keen on this because like me they can see it's all phoney. However refusing what people wrongly think is expansion may end up in some very bad publicity for the game which is TWP's only card they can play.

But for me it has to be stopped now, because if an English club goes down,

(fairly, based on merit, as per the competition rules)

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

and a phoney club

a club started just like any number of others, by someone who wanted to start a professional sports team. Real players playing for real coaches on a real field in front of real fans who have real interest in seeing real success.

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

goes up,

(fairly, based on merit, as per the competition rules)

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

then all we get is another repeat of Perez putting English players into American

Canadian. I don't believe you're actually that thick so that was clearly intentional. 

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

jerseys at Ottawa, and this could not go on without SKY saying that they need an English League because that's what their viewers who pay the subs want, English clubs playing each other in Superleague. I care because the Perez plan is totally destructive for the game here kill the SKY deal kill the game. It's a shame you guys really believe SL and their fans will be happy to have their clubs dismantled and the TV deal torn up here to create a phoney Canadian pro-game just to titilate you guys, Perez and Argyle...............Now try to reply without insults

Do you really think that Sky would be showing and promoting TWP if they didn't see an upside for them? If they actively didn't want North American teams making it to SL, wouldn't they be making that clear to the people in charge, as well as ignoring them in the Championship?

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

There's always one isn't there!! No I don't mean that in a derogative way. In this case I mean someone who is prepared to act like we were discussing this in the pub, and to do it with some manners in an adult way. In a way their wives and girlfriends would be happy with, not chucking insults from behind a bedroom keyboard.

You constantly insult people by calling them "dreamers" and "fantasists" and "gullible" and saying "you don't think do you?". You are the worst one for insulting.

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Yes all SL clubs were funded by the SKY contract to run "Foundations" which are staffed and are active in promoting Rugby League in the areas it has a foothold. I don't think we have many strongholds, even at the biggest clubs we share the local population with people who prefer soccer and union. Having said that participation is heavily down in all three games as the excellent post by Marty Funkhouser set out.

Obviously if RL is not played in city or town it's fairly impossible to get the local populace to play it

Actually, you're right, it IS impossible to play rugby by not playing rugby  It took a poorly constructed sentence for me to agree with you!

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

when they have Union and Soccer (and in your case grid iron) and they are familiar with it and have facilities for it. So our players mainly come from three pockets of the North of England - Hull, West Yorkshire, and central Lancashire. The player base is so small you can go to cities like Sheffield, Liverpool and Manchester and find little RL played.

Why is it so small? Why do people need to literally have a professional team withing a 15 minute drive to have any interest in the game? People in other sports support teams from hundreds or thousands of kilometers away. 

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

So the promotion of this tiny player base becomes very important indeed. I could set it out better than this but basically we are struggling for quality players to underpin the TV contract, hence we have to keep that flow going despite the really stupid posts above that think quality doesn't matter and SKY will pay £200M just for anyone to play.

So if players aren't as good, Sky pays less, and the players get less, that's fair because they aren't as good isn't it? Based on merit, and similar to your precious promotion and relegation?

4 hours ago, The Parksider said:

The bottom line is Perez understood this so he promised grid iron conversions. He didn't enter the game on the ticket of developing kids, and Argyle is certainly not interested in that either. Now it's all failed Perez talks about developing kids to become Superleague players, "as long as it takes" he says. More jam tommorrow promises that become even harder to swallow........

Has it all failed? It was a 5 year plan remember? Not succeeding yet is not the same as failing permanently. 

I'm confused- do you want Perez to develop players or not? You've literally criticized him for both in the same paragraph.

[RobertAM]

I think it's wonderful we now have a good number of people playing 'whack a mole" with Parky. It's the way to deal with this yahoo.. every time he sounds off hit him squarely about the head and shoulders..metaphorically speaking that is....great lark!

[Oxford]

4 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I'm confused-

I'm not surprised it looks like you read the whole of one of Parky's Opus Maximus! You may need to visit the Any Other Business forum and ask about counselling.

But on second thoughts I think there may be far more needy cases than yours, there's alway somebody worse off than you isn't there?

 

1 minute ago, SL17 said:

Parky is correct

I feel the same as when I read The Litlle Match Girl!

[Moove]

44 minutes ago, SL17 said:

That "nonsense" was made up by you,..

I couldn’t be bothered reading after that. Parky is correct there are far too many living in a dream world! 

Perez did say it and promised the earth.

 

This is what Perez actually said...

"We are looking to make Super League the most commercially viable competition, apart from the Premiership, that plays in the northern hemisphere.

To do that you need to have more North American markets, at least five or six clubs in the next 10 years."

No mention of whether that was by actively removing English clubs or by expansion.

[Big Picture]

52 minutes ago, Moove said:

This is what Perez actually said...

"We are looking to make Super League the most commercially viable competition, apart from the Premiership, that plays in the northern hemisphere.

To do that you need to have more North American markets, at least five or six clubs in the next 10 years."

No mention of whether that was by actively removing English clubs or by expansion.

In fairness to Parksider, if those are additional clubs then a lot more TV money would be needed to fund increased payments to each of the clubs involved.  Even 50% more in total would only mean the same as they get now if it's split 18 ways instead of 12.  And without more money to spend on players, where and how would 50% more players with the required skill level be recruited?

[Moove]

10 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

In fairness to Parksider, if those are additional clubs then a lot more TV money would be needed to fund increased payments to each of the clubs involved.  Even 50% more in total would only mean the same as they get now if it's split 18 ways instead of 12.  And without more money to spend on players, where would 50% more players with the required skill level be recruited?

If they forgo the TV money then it wouldn't change the split for existing clubs. I imagine for that to happen though they'd have had to have obtained a paying deal of their own. No idea how feasible that is if any Canadian teams make it to SL. If it was then SL clubs would likely want a cut of that as well.

Player numbers would be a concern if we got anywhere near the number of teams Perez mentioned I think. I can't see them getting that far in the timescales Perez mentioned - if ever.

[TIWIT]

13 hours ago, The Parksider said:

But for me it has to be stopped now, because if an English club goes down, and a phoney club goes up, then all we get is another repeat of Perez putting English players into American jerseys at Ottawa, and this could not go on without SKY saying that they need an English League because that's what their viewers who pay the subs want, English clubs playing each other in Superleague. I care because the Perez plan is totally destructive for the game here kill the SKY deal kill the game. It's a shame you guys really believe SL and their fans will be happy to have their clubs dismantled and the TV deal torn up here to create a phoney Canadian pro-game just to titilate you guys, Perez and Argyle...............Now try to reply without insults

I'm not going to comment on your latest essay because Omott91 and The Reaper have already posted excellent replies that effectively refute most of your points. But the paragraph above...

How do you KNOW Sky doesn't want TWP in SL? SKY might LOVE the idea of TWP in SL. New team, new market. It's NEW! It's DIFFERENT! It will be a far bigger news story if TWP goes up at the end of the season than whichever team goes down. SKY would promote the hell out of that because they know TWP would bring a lot more interest to SL than, say, Leigh.

And as for McManus, just because he owns what is currently the most successful team in SL doesn't mean that he speaks for ALL of SuperLeague. When he speaks, it is, just like yours or mine, just one man's opinion (which admittedly carries a lot more weight than ours).

[Smudger06]

I'd have to disagree, when he speaks publicly in this capacity he speaks for one club of 12 and it's safe to say he has at least 3 to 4 very strong allies (other SL Clubs)  thinking along the same lines at that moment in time. 

[RobertAM]

5 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

I'd have to disagree, when he speaks publicly in this capacity he speaks for one club of 12 and it's safe to say he has at least 3 to 4 very strong allies (other SL Clubs)  thinking along the same lines at that moment in time. 

These would the very same clubs who don't seem to give a fig about clubs in the Championship and League 1. Most of which need to be maintained in order to keep bringing players and their cadre of dedicated supporters to watch RL week in and week out. If the teams underneath SL disappear will their fans suddenly switch to watching/supporting SL teams? Likely not. 

[Moove]

9 minutes ago, SL17 said:

So its a dream! Yes or No?

Whose dream? Mine? In which case no.

Perez's? Quite clearly yes. It's been his 'dream' from the start.

Weird question.

[Smudger06]

11 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

These would the very same clubs who don't seem to give a fig about clubs in the Championship and League 1. Most of which need to be maintained in order to keep bringing players and their cadre of dedicated supporters to watch RL week in and week out. If the teams underneath SL disappear will their fans suddenly switch to watching/supporting SL teams? Likely not. 

Couldn't agree more mate. 

[GUBRATS]

12 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Thing is you wouldn't get shown on SKY every week, if you reach the promised land. As for Leigh as an example they bring more to the game than you'll ever know.

He did say ' interest ' , which it would be very difficult to disagree with 

[TIWIT]

17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Thing is you wouldn't get shown on SKY every week, if you reach the promised land. As for Leigh as an example they bring more to the game than you'll ever know.

Given Leigh's 140+ year history, I would certainly hope so.

But are they the future?

And once TWP are in SL they are much likely to get their own TV deal with a Canadian broadcaster that SKY would likely do a deal with. That is the future

[Moove]

3 minutes ago, SL17 said:

You just stated quote:

Whats weird about that?

So I said Perez's vision seemed unrealistic to me. Then you randomly started asking about dreams. What on earth have dreams got to do with the topic? Perez ain't Martin Luther King.

[Jampot]

42 minutes ago, SL17 said:

They are the past, present and the future... You don't go 140 years in sport without seeing the "here we go again".. Possibly in 137 years TWP will be leading the way in RL.

Who knows, but one thing I do know is that TWP are already attracting far bigger crowds and interest levels each week over Leigh  and therefore are doing more to promote interest in RL. 

44 minutes ago, SL17 said:

 

 

[Moove]

5 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Perez's vision was correct. Unfortunately his employers disagreed. Hence Ottawa! Then again if those employers disagree with his proposals he'll be moving on again. He's a seller not a buyer..

Still not sure which point you're trying to debate with me. The only thing I'm disagreeing with you on is the first post where you said Perez had said he wanted to replace UK clubs with Canadian ones. Or are you disagreeing with my opinion that Perez's vision of half a dozen Canadian clubs in what is now seven and a bit years is unrealistic?

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Jampot said:

Who knows, but one thing I do know is that TWP are already attracting far bigger crowds and interest levels each week over Leigh  and therefore are doing more to promote interest in RL. 

 

Everybody likes something ' new ' 

[TIWIT]

Just now, Jampot said:

Who knows, but one thing I do know is that TWP are already attracting far bigger crowds and interest levels each week over Leigh  and therefore are doing more to promote interest in RL. 

 

Exactly. There will always be a place for clubs like Leigh, but they are not leaders/innovators. If this sport is going to thrive it needs new blood with new ideas expanding into new markets.

[Jampot]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Everybody likes something ' new ' 

Untrue, plenty of sporting startups have totally lost interest after two years e.g. PSG in RL had crowds of around 1 thousand after two years, not 6-9 thousand

[TIWIT]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Everybody likes something ' new ' 

There is a sizeable minority here who would disagree with you.