Wolfpack games NOT being televised

[Man of Kent]

Just now, Scubby said:

What is the difference between Melbourne twinning with North Devils in Brisbane (1000+ miles away) and what Toronto might do with Skolars over the next couple of years?

Might do. But haven’t. 

So no comparison.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

See, just when things started going well for ya you gotta go and ruin everything!  Some never learn.

We both want the same thing, just for different reasons.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

The cheque is in the post.

Just a little cash flow problem, guv. Nothing to worry about 

[Kayakman]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Might do. But haven’t. 

So no comparison.

OK, getting ready to head out for the game today...Indy is on so traffic will be a nightmare....any predictions on crowd size?  I'm saying 8 200 to 8 400.

[Oxford]

15 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I'm saying 8 200 to 8 400.

Does that include all cardboard cutouts, inflateables, people in the beer tents and the verdict of the Luxembourg jury?

[marklaspalmas]

48 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

OK, getting ready to head out for the game today...Indy is on so traffic will be a nightmare....any predictions on crowd size?  I'm saying 8 200 to 8 400.

I'm envious.  Enjoy the game. The Fev fans over there are loving it.

[Kayakman]

14 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I'm envious.  Enjoy the game. The Fev fans over there are loving it.

Heading out now...glad to hear they are enjoying Canada in the summer.

[burnleywelsh]

28 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I'm envious.  Enjoy the game. The Fev fans over there are loving it.

How very dare they........you can’t be going round enjoying yourselves, watching Rugby League outside “the Heartlands”.

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Expanding the league to 13 with a Toronto in Super League benefits both Championship and Super League.

Super League games is getting a bit Scooby-Doo, cutting out a loop fixture is only a good thing.

Championship is silly having a full time team in with part-timers, de-values the whole competition.

Toronto, should be a given a chance to deliver the goods in an expanded Super League.

It answers questions for both cheer leaders and doubters of the Toronto club.

You also lose magic weekend with that , so one game less for everybody 

[The Parksider]

On 12/07/2019 at 23:13, TIWIT said:

I have (somewhat belatedly I admit) come to realize it is impossible to discuss anything with Parksider. He does not wish to debate, or give reasons for his opinions that he states as facts. "I am right, you are wrong."

As per the moderators it's time to let it go now, otherwise the repetition of the two arguments leads to frustration and bad manners 

On 10/07/2019 at 04:22, Omott91 said:

Parky,  I  have disputed your posts. It's kind of ironic that the person calling for discussion and debate and for people to join reality goes quiet or puts people on ignore.

No your not on ignore, we simply disagree and you may recall you openly called for me to be banned anyway. I will do that for  you as regards further debate on the American dream. So as above best to leave it as per the moderators.

On 10/07/2019 at 23:01, TIWIT said:

Bums in the seats, that's all that matters. That's how you grow the game.And the more full the stands are the better it looks on TV.

Leave me out of that one please, contact Eric Perez to have him confirm what mattered and discuss it with him please.

Just a reminder my position was always that I felt it a much  better and less destructive plan for TWP to remain in the Championship and retain their North American players and add to them with an open door policy that would go on to trial any North Americans like grid iron players, USARL players, Union players, lads from the Academies here who didn't make it in SL and wanted to travel and get a second chance, talented lads already playing in fledgling RL countries etc. I'm not shifting from that, again so that we don't go round in circles and create a bad atmosphere.

It appears to me Mr. McManus has signalled a refusal to allow TWP promotion, whilst the Championship has signalled to allow Ottawa to join Toronto in the championship. That would seem to me to be an excellent compromise, with the Canadian derby an exciting prospect (that will deliver your bums on seats) and quite a major fixture for recruiting the players - and maybe even the American investors and TV deals -Mr Perez says the game in North America needs.

Let's leave it at that??

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

Let's leave it at that??

Er, well no Parky, you've not an Earthly of leaving it there!

I think both those teams need to be in SL for the derby as you say, though aren't they a bit far from each other to qualify for that kind of title.

But more importantly for making the game stronger.

I'm a great fan of cynicism but when the champion of P&R says teams who win the competition should be kept in the Championship no matter what that's just the height of double dealing.

And what's all this about the moderators? You can perfectly well hold your own in any discussion.

 

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

It appears to me Mr. McManus has signalled a refusal to allow TWP promotion

Well it's just as well he's not running the game then isn't it?

Let's go over that for a moment, a club chairman who's never had to worry about relegation and barely had to concern himself with a season without at least the sniff of a trophy  and represents his club's interests above all else is who you quote.

[Smudger06]

Sky are killing the game. Toronto v Featherstone was exciting and entertaining and played to a high standard of RL. Yet netball took priority, unbelievable.

Get SL and Championship Games on Free to air and watch the money roll in from pitchside LED Advertising. 

[Smudger06]

I'd bet more people were watching RL on red button than were watching netball and GAA on main channels combined. 

[Oxford]

6 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

I'd bet more people were watching RL on red button than were watching netball and GAA on main channels combined. 

That's because their demographics mean they're likely to be out with their freinds whereas TGG is full of Billy No Mates.

[Keith989]

29 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

I'd bet more people were watching RL on red button than were watching netball and GAA on main channels combined. 

Does anyone know what kind of viewing figures the GAA is getting on Sky?

[Omott91]

3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No your not on ignore, we simply disagree and you may recall you openly called for me to be banned anyway. I will do that for  you as regards further debate on the American dream. So as above best to leave it as per the moderators.

I appreciate the reply. I never called for you be banned as I do enjoy reading your posts most mornings, I was just questioning the moderators as to why you hadn't at least been cautioned when others were getting some time on the sidelines. As you recall, that caution came earlier this week.

 What puzzles me is when you openly call for debate, I and others try to discuss those points with you only to not get a reply or be ignored. Can you please tell me why. Surely you can see that that doesn't create a healthy forum environment?   

[Smudger06]

12 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Does anyone know what kind of viewing figures the GAA is getting on Sky?

Not many, all out mingling with their friends. 

[Oxford]

5 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

Sky are killing the game.

No it's not and the game is not a laughing stock and it's not the end of RL.

Free to air is not going to provide enough money on it's own.

I don't have any information about LED adverts pitchside to comment so I can't say whether on not it would be sufficient income. My guess is that won't be the case.

[Big Picture]

20 minutes ago, Oxford said:

No it's not and the game is not a laughing stock and it's not the end of RL.

Free to air is not going to provide enough money on it's own.

I don't have any information about LED adverts pitchside to comment so I can't say whether on not it would be sufficient income. My guess is that won't be the case.

I can't imagine that in-stadium advertising would ever pay anything remotely comparable to what a TV contract will pay.

[EssexRL]

25 minutes ago, Oxford said:

No it's not and the game is not a laughing stock and it's not the end of RL.

Free to air is not going to provide enough money on it's own.

I don't have any information about LED adverts pitchside to comment so I can't say whether on not it would be sufficient income. My guess is that won't be the case.

There’s been a parallel discussion about cricket. The World Cup hasn’t generated any large scale interest despite England getting to the final and that’s because its on sky BUT the game is in a mess and county teams are in big debt. Free to view would raise the sports profile but the clubs would go to the wall. 

[Smudger06]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

No it's not and the game is not a laughing stock and it's not the end of RL.

Free to air is not going to provide enough money on it's own.

I don't have any information about LED adverts pitchside to comment so I can't say whether on not it would be sufficient income. My guess is that won't be the case.

That's really good to know but I never mentioned that it's the end of RL or that the games a laughing stock.

If you don't have any information about pitchside adverts then there's no point in having a guess really is there? 

[fighting irish]

On 13/07/2019 at 00:45, The Parksider said:

How rude can someone be?

I'm not trying to be rude, I want you in the debate. I've said before, I'm sure we could be mates. While you warn of the danger of undermining our game with reckless expansion, I'm warning of the danger of doing nothing.

I have been on this fine website many years and you only a matter of months with a few fleeting visits, yet you seem to know all about me and what I think?

I don't profess to know all about you, I'm just reacting to your most recent posts and in particular, the ones relating to Toronto Wolfpack.

Never have I said attempts to "grow the game" elsewhere are  a waste of time and money, if we are talking North America I was the one who suggested the "idea" you say I am bereft of to give such as  Toronto, Boston and other like clubs all the time they needed to actually "grow their game" in the Championship.

You have often said that we can't spread the game outside the heartlands because soccer or union have it all sown up. I think your idea to limit the North American expansion involvement to the championship is a reasonable suggestion. I'm not sure the billionaire backers will be content with that but its a point for discussion/debate/negotiation.

However not one TWP fan on here was interested, Nor was Argyle. He sacked them all off because all he wanted was a Superlague team to play with ASAP. When Canada RL visited Lamport offering memberships Argyle walked straight past them. He could have joined them, he could have funded growth in the grassroots game there. He chose not to.

Argyle probably thinks, (like some others I could mention) that he knows best. 

Equally Perez was all talk about developing players from grid iron, but that got abandoned very quickly once TWP were in the league structure? Do you not think that somewhere amongst the thousands of college athletes there would certainly have been some very talented lads eager to have a go at playing Rugby league along with getting a modest wage from Mr. Argylle to do so.

Yes I agree I'm sure there would be.

But neither of these guys wanted to Speculate and do the hard yards and "grow" the North American game.

Your "grow or die" is an empty slogan that will give you some "Like this" approvals.

I'm not in search of ''likes'', so if I can offer some clarification on what this very realisitic statement means its this:- Our great game is in decline. Its no secret that participation numbers are reducing in the heartland areas, which is why you say its vital to preserve the Pro' clubs in those areas, and I agree. I'm saying that its not enough to stand by and do nothing while the decline continues. If we don't reverse the slow death, we will eventually die, because the world is full of alternative pass-times to tempt our young people away from rugby league. 

However the growth from nothing to pro teams for our Superleague clubs happened from 1864 to the advent of the pro Northern Rugby League in the first decade of the last century  which has stayed both still and successful for over 100 years with a current £200M TV contract.

I agree with you, that the growth took place in the early decades before the Northern Pro' game formed. But it hasn't stayed still. Its going backwards. If not, there wouldn't be a shortage of pro' class players, but there is a shortage, you yourself have said so, many times. I ask you, what has happened to Rugby Union in the same period of time? Its growth has exploded by comparison and their game now dwarfs Rugby League. Why? because we've taken the amateurs for granted. We've assumed they've ''stayed still'' but they haven't they are in decline and even if they had, that's not enough to sustain us into the future.

Not long ago I set out the nigh on 50 attempts to add to our famous pro clubs all of which sadly failed to "grow" from south shields to south wales whom I championed on here but was derided for it All these were admirable attempts at growth nonetheless.

They were attempts to grow yes. They all attempted to plant a pro' team in an area where there  was no amateur pyramid to use as a foundation and supply chain (to supply quality players and spectators, sponsors, tv viewers etc). Which is exactly what you are criticising Toronto for.

History has shown it hasn't been a case of grow or die at all. You are wrong, your slogan is wrong.

The game in the heartlands is declining in participation numbers. If that continues to happen we will produce less Super League quality players, the standard of the Super League as a spectator sport will decline (because we will have inferior players on display) then attendances will slide and tv viewing figures will decline and we will go round and round each year in a downward spiral, that my friend is slow death.

You are also wrong to tell any of us who get involved in the game whether it's playing, reffing, researching and preserving the history, sponsoring, or just plain going along to matches whether it's The Grand final of Leeds and Saints or my local Trinity.v. Northumbria in the student league in which I played a bit in way back........to "do more" ........This is not an "idea" at all, and it is again quite rude. I deeply appreciate anyone who does what they can for Rugby League and I say this to them, and in particular I have friends doing wonders with Masters,  But I do not instruct them to "do more" the choice is entirely theirs......

I'm not ''instructing'' anyone to do anything. I'm merely saying that if there are people out there, who love our game and want to ''do something'' to help us, then writing nasty letters to the RFL (or to me) is not going to help much, but getting involved with the amateur game (like Bob Brown did, some 40 years ago)  is a real contribution, that anyone can make if they will.

The custodians of our game, (the RFL) should have been nurturing the amateur game all along, but they did nothing. They were too busy making money. They got away with it because there was no competition for the young lads. Its very different now. If they had done it, as they should, our game would dwarf rugby union today.

 

[The Parksider]

10 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'm not ''instructing'' anyone to do anything. I'm merely saying that if there are people out there, who love our game and want to ''do something'' to help us, then writing nasty letters to the RFL (or to me) is not going to help much, but getting involved with the amateur game (like Bob Brown did, some 40 years ago)  is a real contribution, that anyone can make if they will.

The custodians of our game, (the RFL) should have been nurturing the amateur game all along, but they did nothing. They were too busy making money. They got away with it because there was no competition for the young lads. Its very different now. If they had done it, as they should, our game would dwarf rugby union today.

I don't recognise the idea the RFL ever made loads of money whilst neglecting the development of the game, I do remember when the RFL manipulated participation numbers in the late 2,000's to capture a heck of a lot of government money from Sports England, to pay for RL development officers. That was a time when a friend of mine tried hard to get one of the jobs. The money worked as far as it went and for as long as it went to boost junior participation not just in the north but country wide.

Then it ran out...........But the SL clubs recognised the need for young player development and as part of the £200M SKY deal, money was allocated to every club to run a Rugby League Foundation. This involves professional development officers setting up all sorts of programmes and initiatives to get kids playing in their areas, via schools and their own initiatives, and channelling them to local junior clubs whom they help........ look here:-.

https://www.leedsrhinosfoundation.org/about/

Also look up all the other SL foundations as well, all staffed, paid for, organised and sharing best practice.

I did my time in the junior game, only it was soccer because my lad was born in an area of Leeds where there were no Junior ARL clubs. All his mates were playing soccer and he first and foremost wanted to be with them so I helped the local club extensively and reffed the matches. That's just how it was. Today there is a Junior ARL club in our area, supported by Leeds Foundation.

When I was a kid I lived in North Leeds then and all across the area the schools all played soccer and Rugby Union which still dwarf's League round here despite Leeds RL being the most successful club of modern times and despite the trained and financed staff reaching out to all these schools via the foundation. The  real problem we have is schools who don't play League but play Union.

So no I don't agree with you that if enough individuals just walk out the family home, and neglect the needs and wishes of their own families accordingly and head off to start junior ARL clubs, like some missionary in darkest Africa, then we would have "dwarfed Rugby Union". Today kids have so many choices less and less kids want to play any form of football, association league or Union. 

It's a strange call to arms you make and does not tally with the reality on the ground......

[fighting irish]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

It's a strange call to arms you make and does not tally with the reality on the ground......

Ok, I'm glad we're talking like mates.