The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Dave T 14,854]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Your probably right but his signing is a genuine benefit to Superleague with a huge surge in media/public attention and with Sky rmaking him & Toronto a feature of their advertising campaign,who knows we have a genuine bargaining chip when the next broadcasting deal comes around.

To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. 

Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. 

[aj1908 953]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. 

Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. 

Yep 

The guy they got from Cronulla is nothing special 

Mccrone is good enough for super league 

If they could've got latrell I think they make the finals.

[Damien 7,951]

1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

Yep 

The guy they got from Cronulla is nothing special 

Mccrone is good enough for super league 

If they could've got latrell I think they make the finals.

McCrone didn't look good enough in the Championship never mind Super League.

[Les Tonks Sidestep 1,618]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

McCrone didn't look good enough in the Championship never mind Super League.

and I doubt the more experienced refs he'll come across will be as tolerant to his constant chelping.

[TIWIT 1,266]

3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Sky certainly seem to think so going by their advert for the new season.

Can you give us a brief summary of the ad for those who will never see it please, ie how prominently do TWP and SWB figure in it?

[TIWIT 1,266]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

It comes back to what the salary cap is for.

If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules.

If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable.

If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage.

I understand. That's why I think a modest bump of the cap by 5% is better than a special dispensation for just 1 club. For most clubs it won't matter - they aren't at the cap anyway. But a couple might be able to upgrade at a spot or replace someone injured. And for maybe another couple it might allow them to make a splash by making a marquee signing (how many Saracens are still looking for a new gig?)

[TIWIT 1,266]

2 hours ago, aj1908 said:

Yes if they didn't have the nh rights to sell 

Can't find the link it's disappeared 

Bob Hunter saying they inherited a bad deal 

Sky wanted to be paid to release those rights and it seems a deal could not be reached.

[JDINTHEHIZZOUSE 756]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

I want my youth back also Bob. I don't want the teams I supported back, both Wire and City were under-achievers! 

Is that you Stuart Pearce??

[Davo5 3,483]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. 

Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. 

Yes they did but how many of those "marquee" players provoked such a reaction from people/media from non RL followers.

[JDINTHEHIZZOUSE 756]

7 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

And I look forward to buying the league eventually as well! Heaven forbid a team gets to pay for the best players available

 

Jeeze some might start to call it a professional sport or something

The downside of a team having the funds to buy any player they want is that the league stagnates. Do we want a competitive league where anything can happen,creating excitement and interest or do we want to roll back the years when Wigan (the obvious example) just rolled off the coach and won everything? 

[Kayakman 4,944]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

McCrone didn't look good enough in the Championship never mind Super League.

Give him another chance!...he will do better this year.

[SL17 684]

32 minutes ago, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said:

The downside of a team having the funds to buy any player they want is that the league stagnates. Do we want a competitive league where anything can happen,creating excitement and interest or do we want to roll back the years when Wigan (the obvious example) just rolled off the coach and won everything? 

Hence the Salary Cap is there for that reason. I’m astonished TWP are even asking the question? 

Their plan was SL from conception.

What went wrong?

[Bob8 5,572]

4 hours ago, Bob8 said:

It comes back to what the salary cap is for.

If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules.

If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable.

If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage.

 

1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

I understand. That's why I think a modest bump of the cap by 5% is better than a special dispensation for just 1 club. For most clubs it won't matter - they aren't at the cap anyway. But a couple might be able to upgrade at a spot or replace someone injured. And for maybe another couple it might allow them to make a splash by making a marquee signing (how many Saracens are still looking for a new gig?)

If you would be so kind as to clarify for me, you are saying that the salary cap is to give traditional clubs the best chance? But, it would be a selective pressure against the weakest clubs?

[Bob8 5,572]

7 hours ago, aj1908 said:

to be fair thats not applicable in super league given union and nrl offer much higher wages.

its what bob8 says above.  keeping wages affordable given the games income

Man of Kent did a confused smilie to this, so I think we should make it even easier for him. Though I think you have already explained it clearly.

@Man of Kent, It could be suggested that the salary cap is to lessen the chances of clubs bankrupting themselves. This would apply both directly, but not allowing them to spend to much money.

But, it also applies in another way. If one club starts spending a large amount of money on players wages, it forces all the other clubs to compete and pay more too.

Of course, it is a little different with Toronto, as for most players having to spend much of your year in Canada will be a drawback. They might have to spend more to compete evenly for the same players.

If you find this too complex, let me know which bit and I will be happy to explain further

[Bob8 5,572]

23 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Hence the Salary Cap is there for that reason. I’m astonished TWP are even asking the question? 

Their plan was SL from conception.

What went wrong?

You are in a very good position to answer this, what do you see the main intended function of the salary cap?

[Man of Kent 5,674]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Man of Kent did a confused smilie to this, so I think we should make it even easier for him. Though I think you have already explained it clearly.

@Man of Kent, It could be suggested that the salary cap is to lessen the chances of clubs bankrupting themselves. This would apply both directly, but not allowing them to spend to much money.

But, it also applies in another way. If one club starts spending a large amount of money on players wages, it forces all the other clubs to compete and pay more too.

Of course, it is a little different with Toronto, as for most players having to spend much of your year in Canada will be a drawback. They might have to spend more to compete evenly for the same players.

If you find this too complex, let me know which bit and I will be happy to explain further

Yes, indeed. Hence the “confused smilie”

[TIWIT 1,266]

14 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

 

If you would be so kind as to clarify for me, you are saying that the salary cap is to give traditional clubs the best chance? But, it would be a selective pressure against the weakest clubs?

I think it really rankles other teams that what they perceive as cap mismanagement by TWP they are now asking for special dispensation, and while I do not agree with it I can see their point.

Bumping the salary cap by 5% applies equally to ALL teams. It will be up to each individual team how to avail themselves of that extra space. For the weaker teams it will make no difference whatsoever since they are nowhere near the cap but the game cannot grow if it continues to let the lesser teams continue to dictate the terms.

[Bob8 5,572]

Just now, TIWIT said:

I think it really rankles other teams that what they perceive as cap mismanagement by TWP they are now asking for special dispensation, and while I do not agree with it I can see their point.

Bumping the salary cap by 5% applies equally to ALL teams. It will be up to each individual team how to avail themselves of that extra space. For the weaker teams it will make no difference whatsoever since they are nowhere near the cap but the game cannot grow if it continues to let the lesser teams continue to dictate the terms.

This does come to the purpose of the cap.

If it is to keep an even competition, then there should be a special dispensation. Essentially, it would be like London weighting or travel expenses. Traveling regularly to Toronto is a major imposition on family life and exhausting. To be equally competitive for players, I would say they need to be able to offer more cash.

If it is to stop clubs bankrupting themselves and each other, then any dispensation should be like London weighting, but be linkined to demonstrating it is more sustainable.

[SL17 684]

8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

You are in a very good position to answer this, what do you see the main intended function of the salary cap?

A level playing field.

[Bob8 5,572]

2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

A level playing field.

Thanks! I am actually slightly surprised.

For most players, I would imagine Toronto, with its disruption to family and social life, would actually be less appealing to play for than clubs in Lancs or Yorkshire. Would you agree with that?

[GUBRATS 3,116]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

This ain't a TWP thing, they are just the latest to feel the wrath of this weird concept that you somehow have to be a 'pure' club not corrupted by money. 

I'm a Wire and Man City fan and fans of clubs who have always been richer get upset when things start to change. Warrington not being the poor relation like we were when I started watching in the late 80s grates on some people. 

I knew there was ' something ' about you I didn't like

[TIWIT 1,266]

11 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Thanks! I am actually slightly surprised.

For most players, I would imagine Toronto, with its disruption to family and social life, would actually be less appealing to play for than clubs in Lancs or Yorkshire. Would you agree with that?

Not directed at me, but yes, for a player with a family it might be. Hence TWP has to overpay.

But for a young unmarried guy it might be very appealing to spend part of your summer in Toronto.

[GUBRATS 3,116]

6 hours ago, Loup said:

If you put aside the TWP angle for a moment, why is raising the salary cap a bad idea? Younger prospects/players not in the top squad are being paid peanuts. I have listened to three years of griping that there is only a finite pool of good northern lads in the sport and expansion teams will poach them away.

What if there was a bit less of the wage suppression so more of the northern sons could afford to play full time?

What if less wealthy clubs used the attention that TWP are bringing to the start of the season to up their sponsorships?

Perhaps TWP wouldn't be the only beneficiaries.

 

You overestimate the potential for getting anything extra because of Toronto's inclusion 

[Bob8 5,572]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

You overestimate the potential for getting anything extra because of Toronto's inclusion 

I think it has to be compared to what the alternative to TWP offers. Which might seem cynical. 

[Rupert Prince 973]

On 24/01/2020 at 11:46, EssexRL said:

Toronto fatigue aside, I have to say I feel the opposite. There are lots of positives about the game and I feel really positive. 

I am wanting to believe that, but Wigan are on a Thursday again.  Hardly helpful.  Novelty of the opening game perhaps might help. But why are saints not the season opener?

Sorry off topic again