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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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9 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Jeez, I would have thought that was kinda obvious.

I think it kind'a the level of stress not the general idea of it!

image.png.131637f238e6f466a00446f7ed5d0c8e.png            !


On n'est pas là pour se faire engueuler

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1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

IMO semantics.  Considering the season starts in Feb then I would class 2 months before too short a time and sudden enough.  During that time an agreement has to be made and also resources committed to, to source and engage players and/or staff.  This plus training, relocations etc etc.

Would you say 2 months is adequate to do all the above?

This should have been sorted before the 2019 season even started.

Well yes, but TWP weren't told they would even get admitted to SL until three days before the MPG.

They were talking to SBW but unlikely they'd be signing new players until Elstone got off the fence.

You can blame TWP for bad timing but it came from both sides. Given the ridiculous concessions they were forced to accept, they likely weren't in a position to demand salary cap changes.

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1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

IMO semantics.  Considering the season starts in Feb then I would class 2 months before too short a time and sudden enough.  During that time an agreement has to be made and also resources committed to, to source and engage players and/or staff.  This plus training, relocations etc etc.

Would you say 2 months is adequate to do all the above?

This should have been sorted before the 2019 season even started.

I believe they were in talks with super league before they went public.   They went public about a month and a half after being admitted into super league.

Don't talk about what should have been sorted before with the twp before 2019 season started.  Remember we were 2 weeks out of the  championship grand final and the leagues were saying they might not go up even if they win?  

Someone is dragging their feet and i don't think it's been the twp

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3 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

I believe they were in talks with super league before they went public.   They went public about a month and a half after being admitted into super league.

Don't talk about what should have been sorted before with the twp before 2019 season started.  Remember we were 2 weeks out of the  championship grand final and the leagues were saying they might not go up even if they win?  

Someone is dragging their feet and i don't think it's been the twp

Oh snap.

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5 minutes ago, Loup said:

If you put aside the TWP angle for a moment, why is raising the salary cap a bad idea? Younger prospects/players not in the top squad are being paid peanuts. I have listened to three years of griping that there is only a finite pool of good northern lads in the sport and expansion teams will poach them away.

What if there was a bit less of the wage suppression so more of the northern sons could afford to play full time?

What if less wealthy clubs used the attention that TWP are bringing to the start of the season to up their sponsorships?

Perhaps TWP wouldn't be the only beneficiaries.

 

Rather than giving Toronto special dispensation why not just bump the salary cap say 5% for all teams? Not everyone has to spend to it but it might allow teams a bit more leeway in signing new players. I think everyone agrees TWP aren't going to use that money to make another splashy signing but rather to add depth to their roster. And surely no one should object to giving more lads a full-time paycheque.

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Genuine questions mate.  Do you think lashing out 3m was the best way forward for TWP and also considering squad requirements for 2020?  

Please rephrase your question.

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2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

 

Genuine questions mate.  Do you think lashing out 3m was the best way forward for TWP and also considering squad requirements for 2020?  

Sky certainly seem to think so going by their advert for the new season.

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1 hour ago, TboneFromTO said:

I believe they were in talks with super league before they went public.   They went public about a month and a half after being admitted into super league.

Don't talk about what should have been sorted before with the twp before 2019 season started.  Remember we were 2 weeks out of the  championship grand final and the leagues were saying they might not go up even if they win?  

Someone is dragging their feet and i don't think it's been the twp

Who’s saying TWP have been dragging their heels?

This forum is also for free speech mate.  

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37 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Please rephrase your question.

My question was really about spending on a stronger squad and not on an individual.  SBW could be injured and out of it in one game but spending on some stronger players throughout the squad might just keep them in the league.  It seems the opposite has been the focus and I don’t think that’s a model adopted by any other club.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Sky certainly seem to think so going by their advert for the new season.

Yes, I get the commercial side of it Dave.  Certainly good, but imo a big gamble running with a squad shallow in quality. 

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2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

My question was really about spending on a stronger squad and not on an individual.  SBW could be injured and out of it in one game but spending on some stronger players throughout the squad might just keep them in the league.  It seems the opposite has been the focus and I don’t think that’s a model adopted by any other club.

 

 

Fair enough but I honestly think TWP are looking to do both actually.

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8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Who’s saying TWP have been dragging their heels?

This forum is also for free speech mate.  

You did when you criticized the "sudden" nature of the ask.  

Free speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences of speech.  You are free to make a factually incorrect comment. And I am free to tell you it's wrong.

 

Also internet forums do not equate free speech - there is a set of rules governing these forums (not that I believe you or I have breached them - just riffing on the theme).  Try swearing for example!

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2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Fair enough but I honestly think TWP are looking to do both actually.

You’ll get no animosity towards TWP from me but I think both the RFL and TWP have just been slow off the mark.  TWP going down would create more harm than good for future expansion attempts.  

Its too long a season for all SL clubs let alone new teams.  Difficult choice choosing which should come first - commercial money coming in or success on the pitch.  Maybe TWPs was the gamble and the plan was to chase dispensation after SBW.  

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1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

Rather than giving Toronto special dispensation why not just bump the salary cap say 5% for all teams? Not everyone has to spend to it but it might allow teams a bit more leeway in signing new players. I think everyone agrees TWP aren't going to use that money to make another splashy signing but rather to add depth to their roster. And surely no one should object to giving more lads a full-time paycheque.

It comes back to what the salary cap is for.

If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules.

If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable.

If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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16 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Yes, I get the commercial side of it Dave.  Certainly good, but imo a big gamble running with a squad shallow in quality. 

Your probably right but his signing is a genuine benefit to Superleague with a huge surge in media/public attention and with Sky rmaking him & Toronto a feature of their advertising campaign,who knows we have a genuine bargaining chip when the next broadcasting deal comes around.

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4 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

You did when you criticized the "sudden" nature of the ask.  

Free speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences of speech.  You are free to make a factually incorrect comment. And I am free to tell you it's wrong.

 

Also internet forums do not equate free speech - there is a set of rules governing these forums (not that I believe you or I have breached them - just riffing on the theme).  Try swearing for example!

Like I said, 2 months planning isn’t fair on themselves to achieve any plan. TWP have not been forthright until a few weeks ago, which is different to being in discussions.  We also aren’t privy to those discussions, which Elstone might be.  Not enough time to recruit and get their targets at all.

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2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Your probably right but his signing is a genuine benefit to Superleague with a huge surge in media/public attention and with Sky rmaking him & Toronto a feature of their advertising campaign,who knows we have a genuine bargaining chip when the next broadcasting deal comes around.

Yep.  Agree with all that mate.

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toronto should suck it up and not ask for any special rules.  they wont get relegated anyway.

noble has to learn to play by the rules.

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

toronto should suck it up and not ask for any special rules.  they wont get relegated anyway.

noble has to learn to play by the rules.

I see the point. And I understand the point, however when twp had their central funding removed from them, and forced to continue to pay for opposing travel, then the "rules" became pick and choose.

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10 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

toronto should suck it up and not ask for any special rules.  they wont get relegated anyway.

noble has to learn to play by the rules.

Does that mean they should get the 1.8 million in funding too?

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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4 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

I see the point. And I understand the point, however when twp had their central funding removed from them, and forced to continue to pay for opposing travel, then the "rules" became pick and choose.

Yeh but realistically the other super league clubs don't have to do anything for a rival 

Imo it's bad management by the club

If your talking about 100k for five juniors at.20k maybe they would 

Catalans don't get salary cap.exemptions 

And the quote.by bob Hunter earlier.says Toronto.gave up English tv rights.to.be able to sell.the.nh rights 

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4 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Does that mean they should get the 1.8 million in funding too?

Yes if they didn't have the nh rights to sell 

Can't find the link it's disappeared 

Bob Hunter saying they inherited a bad deal 

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2 hours ago, Loup said:

Yes.

1. Money isn't the obstacle; salary cap is. SBW only counts a relatively small amount against the team's salary cap.

2. SBW is a publicity-raising acquisition first and an on-field purchase second. Hopefully a really great player but he's already earned his crust in the international awareness he's brought both TWP and Super League.

International awareness of SL's small time ways such as denying Toronto their share of the TV money and making them pay visiting teams' expenses isn't necessarily a good thing.

2 hours ago, Loup said:

If you put aside the TWP angle for a moment, why is raising the salary cap a bad idea? Younger prospects/players not in the top squad are being paid peanuts. I have listened to three years of griping that there is only a finite pool of good northern lads in the sport and expansion teams will poach them away.

What if there was a bit less of the wage suppression so more of the northern sons could afford to play full time?

What if less wealthy clubs used the attention that TWP are bringing to the start of the season to up their sponsorships?

Perhaps TWP wouldn't be the only beneficiaries.

Not only so the northern sons could afford to play full time, but also so more of them will want to play the game in the first place and expand the player pool because they'll aspire to be like SBW.

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22 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

I see the point. And I understand the point, however when twp had their central funding removed from them, and forced to continue to pay for opposing travel, then the "rules" became pick and choose.

Indeed, I do find people pretending the rules are sacred to be a little obtuse.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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We have to do what is best for the game and support expansion (for once)...Toronto deserves to be cut some slack on this after all they have done for the game and the League.

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