The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Michael1812 487]

In the end, the clubs voted not to re-admit Toronto and that may have been the right decision but this so called report, based on what we’ve seen, is nothing but a stitch up full of inaccuracies, misleading stats, unsuitable comparisons and poor logic. 

SL either hired incompetent people to put this together or they purposely had it written to cast poor light on Toronto as a market. 
 

 

[Damien 13,227]

The rumours about PE investment makes you wonder what bearing that had on this decision too.

[Harry Stottle 4,334]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its gets better. It seems the report writers have been unable to identify the significance of Perpignan in France vs Toronto in Canada and deemed them as equals, meaning the outcomes must be the same.

I think Robert Elstone was stung by his PSG experience

Whatever you believe about Elstone, I can't see much to be disputed in those 3 paragraphs, albeit the last sentance is a personal view/interpretation by the author, but no one who writes on this site should condemn anyone for their thoughts on any given subject, we all do it.

[Michael1812 487]

35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Whatever you believe about Elstone, I can't see much to be disputed in those 3 paragraphs, albeit the last sentance is a personal view/interpretation by the author, but no one who writes on this site should condemn anyone for their thoughts on any given subject, we all do it.

What does any of that have to do with Toronto?

[Tommygilf 7,958]

56 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Whatever you believe about Elstone, I can't see much to be disputed in those 3 paragraphs, albeit the last sentance is a personal view/interpretation by the author, but no one who writes on this site should condemn anyone for their thoughts on any given subject, we all do it.

If Toronto Wolfpack were actually Halifax Nova Scotia or even Hamilton, I'd agree. But aside from the obvious error of Dacia, Perpignan in France has no relevance to Toronto in Canada.

[RP London 3,124]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If Toronto Wolfpack were actually Halifax Nova Scotia or even Hamilton, I'd agree. But aside from the obvious error of Dacia, Perpignan in France has no relevance to Toronto in Canada.

and you only have to scroll through this to see the comments when you turn it on its head and try and say, "well if Toronto can get 10k through the gates why cant x heartland side?"

and i agree with those comments because you cannot compare them or use one to beat the other with.. 

Using France as a comparison or reason for why Toronto would not/could not work or add value is completely false in the same way as using Toronto's success to say "why can heartlands teams not do xyz" is equally disingenuous.. 

Toronto should not have been let back in if LiVolsi was not prepared to show proof of funding, they should not have been let back in if their business plan is not up to scratch etc.. but some of the reasoning just seems odd and almost an "and another thing" and you dont need that. You need clear and understandable reasoning, just one will do! 

It seems like they want to make it so many reasons that Toronto are smothered in them, where as there really isnt any point in that and definitely not if this is the standard of them IMHO

 

[Harry Stottle 4,334]

51 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

What does any of that have to do with Toronto?

I didn't bring it up!

[Michael1812 487]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I didn't bring it up!

Yes but that info on Catalans was used as evidence as why Toronto is not a market worth investing in and you just backed up the report a few posts earlier. 

[whatmichaelsays 1,931]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

Toronto should not have been let back in if LiVolsi was not prepared to show proof of funding,

 

To be honest, whilst I did subscribe to this theory originally, I do think Hunter has a point that in a sport where stuff does seem to have a knack of leaking into the public domain incredibly easily, it's not unreasonable for LiVolsi to insist on an NDA for something like this. 

[Oxford 5,212]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

but no one who writes on this site should condemn anyone for their thoughts on any given subject, we all do it.

While we're being wholly subjective about expansion, the RFL, SL, Robert Elstone, Uncle Tom Cobbly an' all, surely it's okay to be subjective about our subjectivity.

The thoughts you put down using your keypad are the only measure we can go on, without knowing anything about the person at the other end of the thinking, And even if we knew them we'd be wrong!

Or do mean you insulting or abusive rather than reacting to what people say?

I think the whole point in a forum is is to as biased, illogical and silly as you like and taking it on the chin when you get the mickey taken out of you for being any or all three of them. And most of what we are certain about is based in tidbits of information, half digested ideas and bucket loads of passion.

At the moment Elstone is the new referee! And TGG anger seems very self hating and self-destructive right now. ( or maybe always )

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Oxford

[FearTheVee 168]

15 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

To be honest, whilst I did subscribe to this theory originally, I do think Hunter has a point that in a sport where stuff does seem to have a knack of leaking into the public domain incredibly easily, it's not unreasonable for LiVolsi to insist on an NDA for something like this. 

Nobody has an issue with an NDA, it's standard practice.  It's the fact that he was ony prepared to disclose (NDA or not) after a yes vote that is an issue.

Proof of funds is often the gateway to considering any aspect of a proposal in detail - why waste time if the cash isn't there - so refusing to show that funding was in place before a yes vote makes no sense if you are serious and have the requisite resources.

If you are serious you also don't present from your car.

Edited November 9, 2020 by FearTheVee

[RP London 3,124]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

To be honest, whilst I did subscribe to this theory originally, I do think Hunter has a point that in a sport where stuff does seem to have a knack of leaking into the public domain incredibly easily, it's not unreasonable for LiVolsi to insist on an NDA for something like this. 

Which is fair.. did he ask for one and get it refused? would have thought the club chairman would be used to them to be honest. or surely a "trusted 3rd party" style where he shows them and they confirm it. 

[Harry Stottle 4,334]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

While we're being wholly subjective about expansion, the RFL, SL, Robert Elstone, Uncle Tom Cobbly an' all, surely it's okay to be subjective about our subjectivity.

The thoughts you put down using your keypad are the only measure we can go on, without knowing anything about the person at the other end of the thinking, And even if we knew them we'd be wrong!

Or do mean you insulting or abusive rather than reacting to what people say?

I think the whole point in a forum is is to as biased, illogical and silly as you like and taking it on the chin when you get the mickey taken out of you for being any or all three of them. And most of what we are certain about is based in tidbits of information, half digested ideas and bucket loads of passion.

At the moment Elstone is the new referee! And TGG anger seems very self hating and self-destructive right now. ( or maybe always )

 

You hit the nail firmly on the head in the first paragraph Oxy, what is correct for the author of any post can be totally subjective to others, if we were all of the same opinion it would be a very boring world indeed, I get a great deal of fun from this site on these long dark days when apart from talking to her indoors, and calls to and from family and friends this site is about the creme de la creme of my contact with others these days, my working life was all about meeting people and away from work was about all about socialising, this site plugs a gap that would be far more boring if it didn't exist.

[Tommygilf 7,958]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

You hit the nail firmly on the head in the first paragraph Oxy, what is correct for the author of any post can be totally subjective to others, if we were all of the same opinion it would be a very boring world indeed, I get a great deal of fun from this site on these long dark days when apart from talking to her indoors, and calls to and from family and friends this site is about the creme de la creme of my contact with others these days, my working life was all about meeting people and away from work was about all about socialising, this site plugs a gap that would be far more boring if it didn't exist.

100% agree Harry. I'd be so bored (and maybe worse) without the chats on here.

[Hello 103]

5 hours ago, FearTheVee said:

Nobody has an issue with an NDA, it's standard practice.  It's the fact that he was ony prepared to disclose (NDA or not) after a yes vote that is an issue.

Proof of funds is often the gateway to considering any aspect of a proposal in detail - why waste time if the cash isn't there - so refusing to show that funding was in place before a yes vote makes no sense if you are serious and have the requisite resources.

If you are serious you also don't present from your car.

Funny how the most successful teams and the RFL didn't have an "issue" with what they saw in his proposals. As if he would have offered to pay back-payments wages if funding wasn't in  place!  How suspiciously selective it seems that the clubs that are constantly struggling along with less fans in attendance bringing in income than TWP were already managing in such a short space of time are the self-same clubs who booted them out on the laughable premise that they don't bring value to the game in comparison to many of the two horse town teams that occupy "super" league.  Yes, I did the quotes thing around super, can't help myself sorry. So angry about the attitudes in this sport, never seen anything like it in any other sport speaking as someone who follows many.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Hello

[Oxford 5,212]

Just to be clear on this thread also ....

The periond of expansion is over.

If anyone knows those who left the sport over this issue, it's time to tell them it's all gone away and it's safe to come back.

 

[Michael1812 487]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Just to be clear on this thread also ....

The periond of expansion is over.

If anyone knows those who left the sport over this issue, it's time to tell them it's all gone away and it's safe to come back.

 

Yes, so long expansion, hello contraction. 

[newbe 292]

I am a bit confused,  (it dont take a lot) But are TWP in the Championship next year?

[Harry Stottle 4,334]

Just now, newbe said:

I am a bit confused,  (it dont take a lot) But are TWP in the Championship next year?

No,  the prospective owner said SL or nothing.

[Hela Wigmen 2,942]

1 minute ago, newbe said:

I am a bit confused,  (it dont take a lot) But are TWP in the Championship next year?

It was “Super League or bust” to loosely paraphrase Carlo LiVolsi. Beyond their statement immediately after exclusion, nothing has come out of Toronto, so it would appear the club is dead. 

[fighting irish 1,887]

Canada Oh Canada!

Elstone's made it quite plain although not explicit that he loathed the Toronto Wolfpack from the day he took his place.

Why? I don't know but if you asked him, you wouldn't get a straight answer.

All along he's been unable to say what he really feels because Toronto made such a good fist of it.

His face however, belied his weasel words and telegraphed his true emotions.

Like a haughty, red faced, flatulent old maid, in the front seat in church, desperately trying to suppress a fart. 

Inevitably, you were caught between a rock and a hard place.

The rock (like so many before you) being the humiliation of not having enough resources to be able to compete with SL's best teams and then all hope is repeatedly dashed until it eventually slips silently beneath the waves.

The hard place, is even worse. It's being too good. Ha ha, you didn't expect that did you?

It's being too big for your britches and embarrassing the lack lustre, ne'er do wells you thought would make you welcome.

Ah, such naivety is to be expected I suppose, from the New World.

The lesson I hope is clear, woe betide any upstart who displays the audacity to be any good at what we have been completely inept at (and are getting worse at) for a hundred years.

Worst of all, don't flash your cash ''for the good of the game'' you'll be despised for it, and hounded out of the game, with a thousand and one brickbats. Being any good rarely goes down well, with the Old World, envious ordinary.

So what to do?

If you really, really like Rugby League, I suggest you just get on with it. Do it yourself.

You won't get any help, precious little encouragement and there'll be more than a few underhand and dirty tricks along the way but that's been the history of British Rugby League development since day one.

So now you know, how it really is, it's over to you fellas.

Good Luck in all your endeavours, from someone who really wants you to succeed. 

[Michael1812 487]

41 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It was “Super League or bust” to loosely paraphrase Carlo LiVolsi. Beyond their statement immediately after exclusion, nothing has come out of Toronto, so it would appear the club is dead. 

Are they actually dead?  I know they have debt but as far as I am aware, they were not wound up and Argyle still owns them. Can one of you bright sparks confirm?

[Robin Evans 4,821]

McDermott said they were "finished, done"!

[silverback 1,234]

Move along folks,,,  Nothing to see here.

[Oxford 5,212]

This should really be locked and even moved to the oblivion of archives or the filing system in the cross code nonsense,

To use a phrase very pertinent here, RL carp at Framing a Future beyond next week.

Unless you mean by framing fitting someone up to take the blame.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Oxford