The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Pulga 1,166]

2 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

Honestly, they're better off going it alone. Toronto spent $22m in 4 or 5 years (I think I read). 

Get Toronto, Ottawa and the NY team together with similar money to what TWP spent. The NY backer promised £4.3m/year apparently.

Add in a 3 more teams and you've got yourself something likely to get more attention than SL. Get a TV deal. Play some early games to tap into the Aussie market. Take the best SL players. 

Watch how many of the bigger SL clubs raise their eyebrows.

[frank 478]

So maddening when you think of what could have  been  achieved in a couple of years.Three NA teams playing in the English Leagues with a possibility of others being interested, resulting in them  forming a comp in NA.Meanwhile we will still be able to watch the big three slug it out for the silverware.

Is it any wonder SL  can't attract  a bigger fan base.

[Adelaide Tiger 1,633]

52 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Honestly, they're better off going it alone. Toronto spent $22m in 4 or 5 years (I think I read). 

Get Toronto, Ottawa and the NY team together with similar money to what TWP spent. The NY backer promised £4.3m/year apparently.

Add in a 3 more teams and you've got yourself something likely to get more attention than SL. Get a TV deal. Play some early games to tap into the Aussie market. Take the best SL players. 

Watch how many of the bigger SL clubs raise their eyebrows.

Pulga, many on here wanted TWP kicked out purely because it potentially hindered their clubs pathway into SL as Ottawa and New York would have continued with their applications if TWP were welcomed back, and, some on here saw their clubs position in SL endangered if TWP remained in SL.

But after reading your post I wonder how many SL Chairmen or even posters on this site considered that voting against TWP may eventually be a Pyrrhic victory?

Imagine if you are right in your thoughts and such a league evolves to be the second richest league in the world and they raid English clubs for players.

I hope I will still have my faculties to post on here if such a league eventuates as this Toronto thread will be considered a trifling affair to the anger, insults, acrimony and fury that will be vented
 

[GUBRATS 4,835]

4 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

Agree completely , location should not be a barrier to anybody entering any level

[GUBRATS 4,835]

25 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Pulga, many on here wanted TWP kicked out purely because it potentially hindered their clubs pathway into SL as Ottawa and New York would have continued with their applications if TWP were welcomed back, and, some on here saw their clubs position in SL endangered if TWP remained in SL.

But after reading your post I wonder how many SL Chairmen or even posters on this site considered that voting against TWP may eventually be a Pyrrhic victory?

Imagine if you are right in your thoughts and such a league evolves to be the second richest league in the world and they raid English clubs for players.

I hope I will still have my faculties to post on here if such a league eventuates as this Toronto thread will be considered a trifling affair to the anger, insults, acrimony and fury that will be vented
 

Your scenario is one that was first suggested on here and other MBs over a decade ago 

[Wellsy4HullFC 4,302]

Well with a combination of 4 North American teams and 4 French teams, you could put on a 28 game fixture list with two 1-month travel blocks for cross continent games, leaving the Super League to exist as the M62 league it clearly wants to be.

Toronto, Ottawa, New York, Jax Axe, Catalans, Toulouse, Avignon, Aude.

The Atlantic Rugby League. Or AtRL (@RL)

Probably cheaper than running Toronto!

[Oxford 5,117]

Do you hear that everyone?

 

That's the sound of Yawn laughter.

[Hela Wigmen 2,466]

Not even forty-eight hours after the Grand Final and we’re back to making conferences consisting of clubs that don’t exist. 

[Omott91 813]

Toronto were boom or bust unfortunately and were not allowed back in due to their business model.

 Ottawa would have a different business model learning from Toronto's mistakes, still have Perez and are members of the Rfl.

  Just trying to be positive but they are three big differences. 

[Adelaide Tiger 1,633]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Your scenario is one that was first suggested on here and other MBs over a decade ago 

Just to be accurate it was Pulga that put forward the scenario and I responded to that.

[Harry Stottle 4,152]

6 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

Yes this.

That can also happen to any of the Championship clubs if Licensing is reintroduced.

[ATLANTISMAN 1,001]

Ottawa is dead and NY is nothing more than an idea being hawked around for investment its amazing how many crazy ideas the human race can come up with late at night on a keyboard whilst on ones second bottle of wine.

On a second note I could never understood what would be in it for the Ottawa sports and entertainment group the RL season clashes June to October with the CFL (Which runs to end November) and it would basically be the same audience for which they already have over 20000 regular CFL fans watching the Redblacks.

Apart from that anyway Covid has hit them financially especially with the link to the shopping centre which is part of the complex.

We have to accept that the TW was a one off freak idea backed by a very rich person who sadly was affected by this terrible current pandemic, we now need to push all expansion into traditional RL areas and that means France/London/York/Cumbria amongst a few other places where the game needs to pick up again (And YES I do include London over 40 years now and producing some excellent players so M62,s you will have to eat humble pie on that one:) LOL

 

Time to move on.

Paul

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by ATLANTISMAN

[17 stone giant 1,323]

What will the Toronto fans do now? Are there any still posting on this forum? Just curious if any have plans to adopt another team.

Also, is it likely that Toronto will return in the future?

[Harry Stottle 4,152]

1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

What will the Toronto fans do now? Are there any still posting on this forum? Just curious if any have plans to adopt another team.

Also, is it likely that Toronto will return in the future?

1. Doubt it.

2. No.

[DoubleD 5,977]

1 hour ago, Omott91 said:

Toronto were boom or bust unfortunately and were not allowed back in due to their business model.

 Ottawa would have a different business model learning from Toronto's mistakes, still have Perez and are members of the Rfl.

  Just trying to be positive but they are three big differences. 

Agreed. The TWP fiasco certainly calls into question their entry but by no means can it be automatically assumed that they won’t join 

[Robin Evans 4,516]

Its over. Time to move on. 

[Gooleboy 1,443]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Not even forty-eight hours after the Grand Final and we’re back to making conferences consisting of clubs that don’t exist. 

As you say, all fancy names that don't exist. Some on here for months talked about New York as if they were up and running. All I saw, unless I missed something, was merchandise on sale with a NYRL badge on it.

[Manx RL 1,183]

1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

What will the Toronto fans do now? Are there any still posting on this forum? Just curious if any have plans to adopt another team.

Also, is it likely that Toronto will return in the future?

They’ve been made redundant by the club.

[minor 2]

give it up 

its dead in the water.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by minor

[Big Picture 1,810]

4 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Well with a combination of 4 North American teams and 4 French teams, you could put on a 28 game fixture list with two 1-month travel blocks for cross continent games, leaving the Super League to exist as the M62 league it clearly wants to be.

Toronto, Ottawa, New York, Jax Axe, Catalans, Toulouse, Avignon, Aude.

The Atlantic Rugby League. Or AtRL (@RL)

Probably cheaper than running Toronto!

A transatlantic league with a salary cap than the current higher SL cap so it can pay players well enough to attract them would have higher costs and need good TV contracts to afford those costs.  Apart from the fact that Jax is just semi-pro and that only to the extent that it doesn't cost their players money our of pocket to play for them (or was when Spinner Howland was involved), it would need to attract much more investment than the teams you listed (the current Toronto and Ottawa groups likely excepted) could put in and realistically it would need a UK TV contract as well, so it would need teams in Britain for that.

[TheReaper 1,281]

5 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

What will the Toronto fans do now? Are there any still posting on this forum? Just curious if any have plans to adopt another team.

Also, is it likely that Toronto will return in the future?

I increasingly realize that I click the link to come here out of habit. I guess since TWP still hasn't announced itself as 100% dead, there's a tiny chance there could be one more chapter to the story? 

For many, "adopt another team" likely means the Toronto Arrows. I had very little connection to rugby league before TWP, but it was something new and exciting to have a professional rugby team to cheer for. Any rugby is better than no rugby. But for many people, the Arrows provide the exact same thing as TWP, and more in some ways.

     -An exciting sport with big hits and a fantastic mix of individual skills and teamwork. Plenty on this forum will scoff, but "football" is incredibly popular the world over, and only a small percentage of people are particularly picky over the specifics of it. On the overall spectrum, RU and RL are the closest aside from CFL/NFL. 

     -A team representing our city/province/country in a mostly foreign league. For some, playing against familiar US cities is preferable to unheard of UK cities. And as a non-Torontonian, I feel that the Arrows, being born out of and deeply tied to Rugby Ontario,  do a better job of recognizing the rest of the province.

     -An overall great fan experience at Lamport Stadium. Credit to the WP for realizing its potential as a professional venue.

     -in direct contrast to TWP, an entire core built on local talent, and a mutilayered and clear development pathway. Any young men who want to try to be pro rugby players know exactly what they need to.

They're the same in most ways, possibly slightly worse if you're picky about your brand of football,  possibly slightly better if either local content or player development are important to you. 

So,  TWP may be dead, but I'll still be taking the train into Toronto for some glorious rugby days in the sun. I didn't have much connection to RL before TWP, and without them around I again don't have much of one. But like I've been saying since this saga started, any rugby is better than no rugby. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by TheReaper

[PhilCarrington 70]

11 hours ago, frank said:

So maddening when you think of what could have  been  achieved in a couple of years.Three NA teams playing in the English Leagues with a possibility of others being interested, resulting in them  forming a comp in NA.Meanwhile we will still be able to watch the big three slug it out for the silverware.

Is it any wonder SL  can't attract  a bigger fan base.

English leagues  ? Tell that to Toulouse and the two Welsh clubs.

[Big Picture 1,810]

2 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said:

English leagues  ? Tell that to Toulouse and the two Welsh clubs.

It's still an English league structure.

[Dave T 18,174]

I'll be disappointed if it turns out that the TWP fans turned out to just be fans of their club and not altruistic fans of RL, and now walk away. 

TWP were admitted to SL and walked out. 

As long as Ottawa don't walk out, they should have a different outcome. 

[iffleyox 722]

46 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'll be disappointed if it turns out that the TWP fans turned out to just be fans of their club and not altruistic fans of RL, and now walk away. 

TWP were admitted to SL and walked out. 

As long as Ottawa don't walk out, they should have a different outcome. 

I genuinely think I might be the only non pre-existing RL fan who got into RL through Oxford and is still watching it.

Toronto were a bigger set up, and went further, but with gates of say 9,000 it really wouldn’t astonish me if the genuine converts/stickers generated at this point weren’t in the *very* low hundreds at the most.

I’m not sure we can really blame them. Something blew in, caught the imagination for a bit, then vanished as unexpectedly as it had come...

Incidentally, I should have been going to watch them this year with a mate of mine who was living out there. He’s now relocated his family back to the UK so will be interesting to see if they now go and watch Newcastle Thunder as their new local side.