RLWC - rebrand and update

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Disappointed Coventry (and Midlands) are not hosting any teams but makes me think Coventry will be one of the QF games rather than a group game. Same for Huddersfield I guess 

The 4 Quarter finals are Anfield, Bolton, Huddersfield and Hull

[OriginalMrC]

39 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The 4 Quarter finals are Anfield, Bolton, Huddersfield and Hull

Ah OK a group game it is then, but who? It's a 32000 capacity stadium and a group game, unless it's one of the big teams, likely won't generate as much interest. Harder still when the city is not hosting any teams. Still confident it'll sell well but hopefully it'll be a kiwi or Aus game 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Ah OK a group game it is then, but who? It's a 32000 capacity stadium and a group game, unless it's one of the big teams, likely won't generate as much interest. Harder still when the city is not hosting any teams. Still confident it'll sell well but hopefully it'll be a kiwi or Aus game 

Yeah I thought it was an odd one, I'm sure if you search for the press releases it will say Coventry is getting a "marquee fixture" but crucially not an England or Australia game. To me that has to mean the Kiwis (or less likely Tonga), perhaps going for the "rugby fan" that was targeted for the 4 nations games in 2016. Its a shame there's not more in Coventry or more south tbh but that is the way of it now.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

10 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Ah OK a group game it is then, but who? It's a 32000 capacity stadium and a group game, unless it's one of the big teams, likely won't generate as much interest. Harder still when the city is not hosting any teams. Still confident it'll sell well but hopefully it'll be a kiwi or Aus game 

As well as 32,000 at Coventry we have Old Trafford Manchester, St James Park Newcastle, Riverside Middlesbrough, Emirates London, Elland Road Leeds, Bramhall Lane Sheffield, they are all massive stadiums to fill. Only the Final really guarantees a big crowd to fill those at a RLWC so the other stadiums will be tough to fill. 

I’m expecting very cheap tickets probably from £10/£5, it will have its critics saying were underselling the sport, but cheap tickets worked well for us in 2013, there isn’t another way our sport can fill all those massive stadiums.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah I thought it was an odd one, I'm sure if you search for the press releases it will say Coventry is getting a "marquee fixture" but crucially not an England or Australia game. To me that has to mean the Kiwis (or less likely Tonga), perhaps going for the "rugby fan" that was targeted for the 4 nations games in 2016. Its a shame there's not more in Coventry or more south tbh but that is the way of it now.

England’s group is Samoa, France and Greece. There is no guarantee we will even face New Zealand or Australia.

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

England’s group is Samoa, France and Greece. There is no guarantee we will even face New Zealand or Australia.

I think moving away from that dependency is helpful to the whole game though.

My point was that Coventry have got a "marquee group fixture" that is not involving England or Australia. It was distinct from Middlesbrough for example where they were explicit in getting an Australia fixture. To me the logic is that Coventry will host a Kiwis game.

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

There is no guarantee we will even face New Zealand or Australia.

Great, the sooner the World Cup moves away from being a tri-nations in disguise the better.

Pity for Papua New Guinea though as I bet they would have loved to have been the sacrificial lamb in a super group.

[Sports Prophet]

21 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

You've used the words inclusivity, equality and ethnicity. The poster is dedicated to Leeds being proud to be the host city for the Men's Irish and Jamaican national teams and uses mixed race Jamaican heritage player Ashton Golding and first generation Irish descendent Tyrone McCarthy as its 'poster boys'. Which part of it is missing some 'serious ethnicity'? 

I stand corrected. I don’t know who Ashton Golding is. He looked very anglo when I first looked at the image. I take my comment back.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Great, the sooner the World Cup moves away from being a tri-nations in disguise the better.

Pity for Papua New Guinea though as I bet they would have loved to have been the sacrificial lamb in a super group.

The 2017 tournament got the balance right for me with 2 “Super Groups” and 2 groups of emerging nations. But even though the 2021 tournament isn’t the best format IMO I’m looking forward to it and hoping it’s very successful.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I think moving away from that dependency is helpful to the whole game though.

My point was that Coventry have got a "marquee group fixture" that is not involving England or Australia. It was distinct from Middlesbrough for example where they were explicit in getting an Australia fixture. To me the logic is that Coventry will host a Kiwis game.

New Zealand’s group games are against Ireland, Lebanon and Jamaica. I expect all 3 to be cricket scores. 

Australia will face Fiji, Scotland and Italy. Again I don’t expect these to be anywhere near a close contest. 

Whichever fixtures are selected for Coventry and Middlesbrough, along with the other big grounds, I can only see very cheap tickets attracting even a half full stadium. It’s something we just need to embrace in the tournament and shout from the rooftops how good value it is to go watch live RLWC games.

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

New Zealand’s group games are against Ireland, Lebanon and Jamaica. I expect all 3 to be cricket scores. 

Australia will face Fiji, Scotland and Italy. Again I don’t expect these to be anywhere near a close contest. 

Whichever fixtures are selected for Coventry and Middlesbrough, along with the other big grounds, I can only see very cheap tickets attracting even a half full stadium. It’s something we just need to embrace in the tournament and shout from the rooftops how good value it is to go watch live RLWC games.

I completely disagree.  People don't attend 'event' occasions like World Cups based on whether the games will be close or not... in fact seeing Australia or New Zealand run in a few spectacular tries will do no harm at all.

And events don't need cheap tickets.

We shouldn't be worried about our best teams winning games and scoring points.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

New Zealand’s group games are against Ireland, Lebanon and Jamaica. I expect all 3 to be cricket scores. 

Australia will face Fiji, Scotland and Italy. Again I don’t expect these to be anywhere near a close contest. 

Whichever fixtures are selected for Coventry and Middlesbrough, along with the other big grounds, I can only see very cheap tickets attracting even a half full stadium. It’s something we just need to embrace in the tournament and shout from the rooftops how good value it is to go watch live RLWC games.

Lebanon are as strong as a Samoa or Fiji, both of whom have come close to or beaten New Zealand recently. Ireland could pull a Scotland? Who knows. 

Australia are standouts in that group yes, as they would be in a group with England, New Zealand and PNG in. So your point there is rather mute. It would be more difficult for them yes but they'd still be clear favourites so materially the only thing that changes is that Fiji, Scotland and Italy will get a chance to play the best in the world rather than us and the Kiwis AGAIN.

The cheap seats is a silly comment because how cheap is cheap? At the RUWC, 50 quid was a tier 3 (out of 4) ticket for Italy v Canada. Price yourself reasonably, don't undersell yourself. World Cups sell well - 7000 turned up on a cold Tuesday night in Bristol to watch USA v Cook Islands remember. 

Middlesbrough has been suggested as being a venue on the opening weekend, possibly aimed at drawing in fans who have gone to the opener in Newcastle. Coventry on the other hand was surprisingly well attended in 2016 and with the New Zealand Rugby brand the Kiwis can dovetail on will likely be well attended again.

My only concern with attendances is the grounds like Warrington, Saints and Leigh which are relatively close and have 3 group games each, this is on top of the Bolton England game, Anfield and Bolton Quarter Finals and the final at Old Trafford again all relatively close by. Headingley I'm less worried about as Leeds is joint with London as the best city for International RL crowds. Donny and Newcastle may benefit from being a bit out of the way meaning people will commit to games there far earlier. Personally I'd have taken a game from Wire, Saints and Leigh and had 3 fixtures in the South - London, Gloucester and Bristol would be my personal picks - just to reduce supply and ease the demand on the North West for sales.

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I completely disagree.  People don't attend 'event' occasions like World Cups based on whether the games will be close or not... in fact seeing Australia or New Zealand run in a few spectacular tries will do no harm at all.

And events don't need cheap tickets.

We shouldn't be worried about our best teams winning games and scoring points.

Exactly, its a reductive attitude that means we'll eventually end up with a world cup that is just Australia and New Zealand!

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

48 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I completely disagree.  People don't attend 'event' occasions like World Cups based on whether the games will be close or not... in fact seeing Australia or New Zealand run in a few spectacular tries will do no harm at all.

And events don't need cheap tickets.

We shouldn't be worried about our best teams winning games and scoring points.

We do need cheap tickets. That’s the main reason the 2013 tournament was a success. 7000 turned up on a Tuesday night to watch USA v Cooks because people were buying tickets at £15 or  £7.50 with a 50% off code. The games still needs promoting and marketing but we can’t compare ourselves to the RUWC  who can get 40,000 paying £50+ yet.

Just look at the figures from the 2000 World Cup below, they we’re poorly marketed and overpriced for a RLWC.

Australia v Russia 3000 

Australia v Fiji  4200

NZ v Lebanon 2500

NZ v Cook Islands 3900

Australia v Samoa QF 5400

NZ v France QF 5100

AustriaIlia v Wales SF 8100

[ATLANTISMAN]

Cheap is NOT the way to go however one can see the groupon offers in the mirror already.

Looking forward to the RLWC immensely however I have severe doubts as to sponsorship and marketing as it seems they are in a bubble.

I hope I am proved wrong.

 

P 

[whatmichaelsays]

6 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

I’m expecting very cheap tickets probably from £10/£5, it will have its critics saying were underselling the sport, but cheap tickets worked well for us in 2013, there isn’t another way our sport can fill all those massive stadiums.

To be fair, those critics would have a point. There are more than enough examples where reducing prices reduces demand. If you see an event that is priced suprisingly cheap, be it a sporting event or a trip to the theatre, there's a point in human psycology that thinks "there must be something wrong with it so I'll stay in and watch Netflix instead". 

Yes, you're not going to be able to sell Lebanon v Cook Islands at £50 a head but at the same time, we do want to try and sell the RLWC as an 'unmissable' event - and how many unmissable events are sold at £10 a head? The trick is not to sell at a low price but at a price that is believeable.

Discounting at the 2013 WC worked because the strategy was to try and get a small amount of people (ie, the core RL supporter base) to buy a larger number of tickets than they perhaps intended to. The approach should, in my view, to get a much larger number of people to each buy a smaller amount of tickets. 

In other words, in 2013 we tried to encourage one person to buy five tickets. In 2021 we should be trying to get five people to each buy one ticket. 

[Chris22]

I was really impressed with the announcement yesterday. The schedule is being announced on 21 July. The spacing between announcements is good to build momentum going into the tournament. 

The branding and promotion side of things is going well. A shame the Kangaroo tour isn't going ahead as that would have been a big boost.

I noticed on Twitter that when places like Middlesbrough were announcing that they would host Cook Islands, this was met with genuine excitement by football fans, rather than the usual derision at anything that isn't their own sport. That's a testament to the job we are doing and also that host towns / cities had to make a big effort to win that right.

[Dunbar]

6 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Cheap is NOT the way to go however one can see the groupon offers in the mirror already.

Looking forward to the RLWC immensely however I have severe doubts as to sponsorship and marketing as it seems they are in a bubble.

I hope I am proved wrong.

 

P 

Pretty much everything I have seen produced around this world cup so far has been quality. I am surprised you have concerns about the marketing. 

[Dave T]

There will be cheap tickets. We shouldn't stress about that. 

[Hela Wigmen]

I’m all for cheap tickets if it means I can get to an extra game or two. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

10 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I was really impressed with the announcement yesterday. The schedule is being announced on 21 July. The spacing between announcements is good to build momentum going into the tournament. 

The branding and promotion side of things is going well. A shame the Kangaroo tour isn't going ahead as that would have been a big boost.

I noticed on Twitter that when places like Middlesbrough were announcing that they would host Cook Islands, this was met with genuine excitement by football fans, rather than the usual derision at anything that isn't their own sport. That's a testament to the job we are doing and also that host towns / cities had to make a big effort to win that right.

I’m sure most are familiar with what I’m about to say, but I think Middlesbrough hosted games during 1966 and become closely attached to the North Korea team who were the massive tournament underdogs and were locally known as ‘us’ (because they also played in red)

North Korea then effectively ‘knocked out’ Italy (one of the favourites back then) to great acclaim.  I think all that is standard lore in Middlesbrough and if we can tap into that then we’ve done brilliantly.

It seems to me that the marketing people deserve a pat on the back so far and I’ve been impressed by seeing top billing of the World Cup in my local council‘s public newsletters.  Let’s hope it all translates into healthy crowds.

 

[whatmichaelsays]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

There will be cheap tickets. We shouldn't stress about that. 

I think tactical offers on cheap tickets have a place, but I do think they have to be used carefully, rather than on a blanket basis. 

So yes, look at the database to find, for example, a fan in Leeds who has bought tickets to Elland Road, Headingley, Newcastle and Old Trafford and see if you can get him/her to go to games at Huddersfield and Sheffield with a tactical deal, but don't undersell the sport to new audiences. 

There is a psychology to pricing that associates something that is expensive with quality, and that's what we should be confident of selling. If we undersell, we'll more than likely reduce demand as people won't see it as worth their time - a night in with Netflix will give them a similar thrill for much lower cost. 

Despite what logic might suggest, it's a lot easier to sell an event that you can convince people is worth £30 at £30, than it is to sell an event that you tell people is worth £30 but they can actually have it for £15. People will automatically assume there is something wrong with it. 

Similarly, you're going to have a hard time telling someone that a "world class" event is worth £15 - because people know that "world class" events don't cost that little. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

15 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think tactical offers on cheap tickets have a place, but I do think they have to be used carefully, rather than on a blanket basis. 

So yes, look at the database to find, for example, a fan in Leeds who has bought tickets to Elland Road, Headingley, Newcastle and Old Trafford and see if you can get him/her to go to games at Huddersfield and Sheffield with a tactical deal, but don't undersell the sport to new audiences. 

There is a psychology to pricing that associates something that is expensive with quality, and that's what we should be confident of selling. If we undersell, we'll more than likely reduce demand as people won't see it as worth their time - a night in with Netflix will give them a similar thrill for much lower cost. 

Despite what logic might suggest, it's a lot easier to sell an event that you can convince people is worth £30 at £30, than it is to sell an event that you tell people is worth £30 but they can actually have it for £15. People will automatically assume there is something wrong with it. 

Similarly, you're going to have a hard time telling someone that a "world class" event is worth £15 - because people know that "world class" events don't cost that little. 

Don’t forget though that the general economic outlook is very gloomy.

I totally understand your arguments about perception.

But the cold hard reality is money will be tight next year for many.

[Hela Wigmen]

5 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Don’t forget though that the general economic outlook is very gloomy.

I totally understand your arguments about perception.

But the cold hard reality is money will be tight next year for many.

The schedule being announced in July and hopefully ticket prices too will hopefully allow people to save.

Personally, I hope that tickets are on sale come the back end of the year as I can just buy my Dad a load of tickets instead of struggling to shop for him. 

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The schedule being announced in July and hopefully ticket prices too will hopefully allow people to save.

Personally, I hope that tickets are on sale come the back end of the year as I can just buy my Dad a load of tickets instead of struggling to shop for him. 

 

I’ve got a similar plan.

I’m going to try and get the best tickets possible for the Bolton games for friends and family then take it from there.

Depending on the situation with travelling abroad, I might be tempted to combine a break in the North East/Yorkshire Dales with some Rugby League World Cup action nearby.