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The Future is League

USA sports fans in awe of Rugby League hits

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12 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

If we want to abbreviate do so to "League" or "Union", never to "Rugby". 

I am amazed when I see people on this forum refer to Rugby League/League still as "rugby".

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4 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Of course, a Youtube reactor being impressed by a short "best of" clip is a long way from any of them becoming fans, or even watching one full match. But every little helps in brand awareness, especially when you see the number of subscribers some of these accounts have. And there's always a few comments below the videos pointing out that there are two separate codes.

It brings a sinking feeling when you see the same type of comments (both the ill-informed and attempting to clarify) attached to all these "American reacts to Rugby for first time" YouTube videos.

There are so many such vids that someone could run a channel "RL fan reacts to Americans reacting to Rugby for first time". The comments underneath might initially go further down the same rabbit-hole, but then emerge blinking into enlightenment. You never know.

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4 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I am amazed when I see people on this forum refer to Rugby League/League still as "rugby".

But you understand why though, right? Cos if you grow up in a UK RL community the two sports are known as "rugby" and "union" (if not something more derogatory). From our perspective it's really shocking when you hear Aussies and others referring to union as just "rugby", because we are all interested in proper rugby and don't think that other sport where it's all about waiting for a scrum to collapse so you can kick a penalty and lots of booting the ball into touch really deserves to be called rugby at all.

(And yes, I can understand your POV and the points above about brand awareness to get new people to watch the right game and not get put off our sport by watching a different one, I just wanted to make sure you get why we call it just "rugby" over here.)  

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10 hours ago, gingerjon said:

On the one hand, yes.

On the other, a bit of a wake up call that all these American fans suddenly in awe of the big hits don't really exist. No more than the UK became a hotbed of australian rules because a fair number of people used to watch the AFL before Gazzetta Football Italia on Channel 4 in the 90s.

Because if the impact was real, this thread wouldn't be going backwards and forwards about calling the game "jeu a treize" (in absolute and profound ignorance of why that's a somewhat loaded name for the sport), we'd be seeing wave after wave of comments about US interest in rugby league.

Even before the internet there were lots of features on how amazed Americans were by RL big tackles or the lack of padding and helmets. Some here would react with a glow of pride or sense of curious vindication. Why though would we think that this superficial reaction would lead to an interest in RL. It`s no different from us watching those American big truck smash-ups that used to be on "World of Sport".

I genuinely tried to get into Aussie rules when it was on channel 4, but remained completely flummoxed by its appeal. No offence intended to its fans but the only reason I carried on watching was that, in the days before LOL became a thing, it was a laugh a minute.

Edited by unapologetic pedant

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29 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

But you understand why though, right? Cos if you grow up in a UK RL community the two sports are known as "rugby" and "union" (if not something more derogatory). From our perspective it's really shocking when you hear Aussies and others referring to union as just "rugby", because we are all interested in proper rugby and don't think that other sport where it's all about waiting for a scrum to collapse so you can kick a penalty and lots of booting the ball into touch really deserves to be called rugby at all.

(And yes, I can understand your POV and the points above about brand awareness to get new people to watch the right game and not get put off our sport by watching a different one, I just wanted to make sure you get why we call it just "rugby" over here.)  

If "The Rocket" is an Australian gentleman he might comprehend less, but I understand your traditional explanation. And in Featherstone, Leigh, etc it makes perfect sense. But related to any ambitions we have for RL beyond its heartlands we should have more care and imagination over the terms we use.

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Americans manage to cope with two variants of pro baseball - American League rules and National League rules.

North Americans accept two variants of what the British call "American football" - as played in the American Football League and the Canadian Football League.

Americans will eventually figure out that there are two different species of rugby, if they get interested enough. So use rugby union and rugby league as appropriate, but no need to bash them over the head with the billion year history of code wars, disgruntlement, and look-back-in-anger. They simply won't care. Better to give them a nice clean slate and help them to love the game.

 

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5 minutes ago, Loup said:

Americans manage to cope with two variants of pro baseball - American League rules and National League rules.

North Americans accept two variants of what the British call "American football" - as played in the American Football League and the Canadian Football League.

Americans will eventually figure out that there are two different species of rugby, if they get interested enough. So use rugby union and rugby league as appropriate, but no need to bash them over the head with the billion year history of code wars, disgruntlement, and look-back-in-anger. They simply won't care. Better to give them a nice clean slate and help them to love the game.

 

Eh, The only rule difference in baseball is the designated hitter, and that has temporarily changed this season and its only a matter of time before its permanent. Even with that rule difference it doesnt make for a completely different sport like Union vs League; its more like Super League vs NRL with their various rule differences.

North Americans don't accept two different codes of gridiron football, only Canada does (and I'm not sure how popular the NFL is compared to the CFL up there). The rest of us don't know squat about it other than its where players who werent good enough for the NFL go.

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16 minutes ago, Loup said:

Americans manage to cope with two variants of pro baseball - American League rules and National League rules.

North Americans accept two variants of what the British call "American football" - as played in the American Football League and the Canadian Football League.

Americans will eventually figure out that there are two different species of rugby, if they get interested enough. So use rugby union and rugby league as appropriate, but no need to bash them over the head with the billion year history of code wars, disgruntlement, and look-back-in-anger. They simply won't care. Better to give them a nice clean slate and help them to love the game.

 

In the international section there was a thread about RL in Vermont featuring a press article which had references to the game as "blue-collar Rugby", so, like it or not, the social and political history is picked up on by North Americans.

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17 minutes ago, emesssea said:

Eh, The only rule difference in baseball is the designated hitter, and that has temporarily changed this season and its only a matter of time before its permanent. Even with that rule difference it doesnt make for a completely different sport like Union vs League; its more like Super League vs NRL with their various rule differences.

North Americans don't accept two different codes of gridiron football, only Canada does (and I'm not sure how popular the NFL is compared to the CFL up there). The rest of us don't know squat about it other than its where players who werent good enough for the NFL go.

CFL is to me (A brit) 100 times better to watch though 3 downs is fab the receivers in CFL are really excellent I have seen some amazing plays that one would never see in the NFL.

On the subject of Rugby Americans that have watched both codes always to a man prefer League simple rules fast easy to follow and enjoyable:)

 

Paul

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8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I am amazed when I see people on this forum refer to Rugby League/League still as "rugby".

My kids are born and raised in Canberra and are Raiders fans. They often call the sport “rugby”. They picked that up out in the community where people are from all over Australia. It’s also called “rugby”, “league”, “football” and “rugby league” in day to day conversations in Canberra because of the varied national influences.

Up on the Central Coast where I was raised it’s nearly always called “football” or “footy” in day to day conversations. When I was 16 and met a kiwi girl she talked about “rugby” without a “league” or “union” attached, I didn’t know what sport she was talking about.

In Melbourne it’s not unusual for Storm fans to refer to the “rugby”.

Edited by Copa
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9 hours ago, mrfranco said:

But you understand why though, right? Cos if you grow up in a UK RL community the two sports are known as "rugby" and "union" (if not something more derogatory). From our perspective it's really shocking when you hear Aussies and others referring to union as just "rugby", because we are all interested in proper rugby and don't think that other sport where it's all about waiting for a scrum to collapse so you can kick a penalty and lots of booting the ball into touch really deserves to be called rugby at all.

(And yes, I can understand your POV and the points above about brand awareness to get new people to watch the right game and not get put off our sport by watching a different one, I just wanted to make sure you get why we call it just "rugby" over here.)  

You know what ? I had no idea. That must be why I keep seeing it refererd to as " yawnion .  And that explains why David Argyle calls Rugby League " Rugby" '  I could never work that out, because surely he couldn`t be confused. I thought that maybe he was making some sort of statement about claiming the name for our code. 

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9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I genuinely tried to get into Aussie rules when it was on channel 4, but remained completely flummoxed by its appeal. No offence intended to its fans but the only reason I carried on watching was that, in the days before LOL became a thing, it was a laugh a minute.

And I will tell you what it, it has only got funnier, because it has got faster.. There is so much of it on T.V. over here . Sometimes I will flick it on for a few minutes and honestly it`s hilarious . But as a comedian over here noted recently, what takes place on the field and what is described by the commentary team are two completely different things. They take it so seriously.                                                                                                                                                     They call it the "national game" I call it the "national embarrassment".

Yes "The Rocket is an Australian gentleman

Edited by The Rocket
add summat

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On 09/07/2020 at 01:22, unapologetic pedant said:

The Australian RL attitude to the word "Rugby" is particularly baffling and infuriating.

Their flagship competition, and the most well-known globally, is the National Rugby League. They ought to know that to any logically-minded person who does not already know different, this is interpreted as the game of "Rugby" played in a national league. Just as, in an American context, the NFL is the game of Football played in a national league. Yet they persist in calling RU "Rugby" without adding "Union".

Hey , easy fella. Your thinking too much and what`s with the " any logically minded person ".

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I think we should just call ourselves NRL.

Not

Rugby

League

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14 hours ago, Copa said:

My kids are born and raised in Canberra and are Raiders fans. They often call the sport “rugby”. They picked that up out in the community where people are from all over Australia. It’s also called “rugby”, “league”, “football” and “rugby league” in day to day conversations in Canberra because of the varied national influences.

Up on the Central Coast where I was raised it’s nearly always called “football” or “footy” in day to day conversations. When I was 16 and met a kiwi girl she talked about “rugby” without a “league” or “union” attached, I didn’t know what sport she was talking about.

In Melbourne it’s not unusual for Storm fans to refer to the “rugby”.

Canberra seems to be an unusual case. I read somewhere that in the Raiders` early days, when they were playing at Queanbeyan, RL was the fourth most popular code behind Aussie Rules, Soccer, and Union, in the ACT.

Edited by unapologetic pedant

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27 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Canberra seems to be an unusual case. I read somewhere that in the Raiders` early days, when they were playing at Queanbeyan, RL was the fourth most popular code behind Aussie Rules, Soccer, and Union, in the ACT.

I have heard that story as well and that the success of the Raiders combined with the Brumbies drove "the silly game" out of the A.C.T. That story always gives me hope that maybe one day we can drive it out of Melbourne,  Hell  even Australia.

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17 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I have heard that story as well and that the success of the Raiders combined with the Brumbies drove "the silly game" out of the A.C.T. That story always gives me hope that maybe one day we can drive it out of Melbourne,  Hell  even Australia.

You could send it back to Ireland if you`ve kept the receipt.

Perth offers better prospects, but V`landys keeps using the phrase "rusted-on AFL states" at the suggestion. Perhaps he should be encouraged to look at the ACT football code history to see what might be possible.

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11 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

You could send it back to Ireland if you`ve kept the receipt.

Perth offers better prospects, but V`landys keeps using the phrase "rusted-on AFL states" at the suggestion. Perhaps he should be encouraged to look at the ACT football code history to see what might be possible.

Their really worried about the finances of a Perth bid . The Queensland bids have their finances ready to go. I do get the impression that as far as having a team west of the three eastern states has become low priority . I think that their strategy now seems to be  growing the game in the Pacific. Internationals, SOO and high profile club games  in Perth /Adelaide with a longer term strategy of getting teams there.

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As I posted elsewhere:    Fiji........15 first grade teams registered 2019 ...........25 registered 2020.

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3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Their really worried about the finances of a Perth bid . The Queensland bids have their finances ready to go. I do get the impression that as far as having a team west of the three eastern states has become low priority . I think that their strategy now seems to be  growing the game in the Pacific. Internationals, SOO and high profile club games  in Perth /Adelaide with a longer term strategy of getting teams there.

There is some logic in that thinking.  The AFL had a lot more to gain from expanding into Sydney and Brisbane than RL stands to gain from expanding into Adelaide and Perth for the simple reason that Sydney and Brisbane are much bigger markets than Adelaide and Perth.  That said, the Pacific islands are even smaller markets so there's a definite limit to what they can do for the game.

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22 hours ago, emesssea said:

North Americans don't accept two different codes of gridiron football, only Canada does (and I'm not sure how popular the NFL is compared to the CFL up there). The rest of us don't know squat about it other than its where players who werent good enough for the NFL go.

NFL is way more popular in most of Canada, mainly due to the $ involved, which makes it a glamorous sport able to attract phenomenal athletes. CFL on the other hand is dying on its ass, with the possible exception of in the prairie provinces, the league itself is seen as poor financially, the players are very poorly paid and the fan base is ageing and very blue collar, perhaps the future of the CFL is to become a feeder league for the NFL, which takes a huge number of athletes each year from the college system, then cuts the majority before the season starts. If the CFL was a feeder league then it would be somewhere for the late developer to go before getting a second chance, in fact looking at some CFL rosters it seems to be going that way now. How relevant this is to Americans accepting 2 forms of rugby is debatable, but I would say that if any major foothold is achieved here, it will probably be union, due to that sport being played in places of influence (universities, private schools), of course that’s not to say League couldn’t build a niche market, and more live games on TV would certainly help.

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1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

NFL is way more popular in most of Canada, mainly due to the $ involved, which makes it a glamorous sport able to attract phenomenal athletes. CFL on the other hand is dying on its ass, with the possible exception of in the prairie provinces, the league itself is seen as poor financially, the players are very poorly paid and the fan base is ageing and very blue collar, perhaps the future of the CFL is to become a feeder league for the NFL, which takes a huge number of athletes each year from the college system, then cuts the majority before the season starts. If the CFL was a feeder league then it would be somewhere for the late developer to go before getting a second chance, in fact looking at some CFL rosters it seems to be going that way now. How relevant this is to Americans accepting 2 forms of rugby is debatable, but I would say that if any major foothold is achieved here, it will probably be union, due to that sport being played in places of influence (universities, private schools), of course that’s not to say League couldn’t build a niche market, and more live games on TV would certainly help.

 I can't find the graphic that shows it, but it's a lot closer than you think. I saw a regional break down, BC and Ontario were slightly higher interest in NFL, and the Prairies were higher CFL interest, but nationally it is very close. I'll try to dig it up.

Your perception seems to fit what I've heard about Lions crowds, but Hamilton and Ottawa have a large number of younger fans. The Ticats are vibrant as ever as the big team in town here, and when I went to an Ottawa game last year I got the same vibe - lot of young people having a very good time as families and the older crowd. Both teams, while having smaller stadiums, have been filling them up pretty well. 

Found it:

leagues2.thumb.PNG.fc40c2c1b5d0280151e3dbe2cea38df0.PNG

breakdown.PNG.b69d8600fcf2a13ee7df7f7b025b0330.PNG

preference.thumb.PNG.78630afeb770fe83cff3cd07aa68794d.PNG

So the CFL does skew older. The previous 2014 poll had CFL slightly higher than NFL, it's dead even now so it is sliding a bit. 

http://angusreid.org/cfl-or-nfl/

God I miss football

Edited by TheReaper
found source

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From this moment forward, the sport will be officially known as Enarell football, or Unerall in NZ.

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Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination.

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9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Canberra seems to be an unusual case. I read somewhere that in the Raiders` early days, when they were playing at Queanbeyan, RL was the fourth most popular code behind Aussie Rules, Soccer, and Union, in the ACT.

People who have been here a lot longer than me have told me that before the Raiders appeared Australian Rules football  was fairly dominant. The Raiders changed that. The Raiders are the main sports show in Canberra these days.

I think Canberra has a more equal mix of the main sports than most other parts of Australia. When the afl comes to town a large number of AFL fans attend even if their team isn’t playing. And then we have the Brumbies and a popular women’s basketball team.

Edited by Copa

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