langpark Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I mentioned it elsewhere, but I feel it deserves its own thread. Seeing as we always hear people saying the game is declining in the UK or some even go as far as to say things like "dying a slow death", I dug up some figures that prove otherwise: 2015: Increase of 9,900 reported on previous year: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/33357/participation-increases-are-testament-to 2017: Year-on-year increases since 2012 confirmed as well as a 40% increase over the last 10 years: https://www.totalrl.com/exclusive-rfl-issue-response-participation-figures-sport-england/ 2020: RFL reports increase in participation in 2019, from 102,304 to 109,501: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56906/rfl-confirms-return-to-profit-and-increased-participation-in- This is not even factoring the (undeniable) growth of the international game either. I don't have any figures of other countries, but I know there has been significant growth across Europe in the last decade as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Rugby league is the 27th most-popular sport in the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Rugby league is the 27th most-popular sport in the country ...and when you were a kid, it may have been 37th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Rugby league is the 27th most-popular sport in the country Rugby League is the 5th most popular sport in the country. https://www.statista.com/statistics/686971/highest-attended-types-of-sport-in-the-uk/ Of course we can all just use whatever stats use our argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMEGA Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I wouldn’t put a penny on the validly of RFL participation figures being correct Ive worked within multiple youth set ups, schools and the amateur game for decades and will trust the veracity of my own eyes and experiences over massaged figures designed to impress Sport England Fund underwriters. Ill give you one absolutely true example of how these numbers are counted. One 14 year old player: plays for his school team, local amateur team, in a Pro Scholarship and sometimes plays in a touch n pass League with his dad. He counted 4X on the participation numbers. Repeat that to one extent or another for hundreds if not the low thousands of lads doing similar. The same for girls and masters who also play T&P. Sometimes trying to see the positives in everything and denying the evidence in front of your eyes can be the absolute worst thing to do. We need to recognise the issues we have as a game and take some pretty immediate and meaningful actions to arrest the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 20 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Rugby league is the 27th most-popular sport in the country Using what criteria? It’s certainly not the 27th most popular spectator sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, OMEGA said: Sometimes trying to see the positives in everything and denying the evidence in front of your eyes can be the absolute worst thing to do. We need to recognise the issues we have as a game and take some pretty immediate and meaningful actions to arrest the slide. I don't think RL can be accused of that. Knowing what actions to take is the challenge, we are seeing team sport participation drop across most sports, so it isn't just a case of the RFL being incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 think i prefer the days of offiah hanley - kangaroo tours- top ru talent signing up and off season aussies gracing the english game, stadiums with atmosphere, car parking spaces at grounds, pubs with a stripper on before the game, etc etc see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 51 minutes ago, Eddie said: Using what criteria? It’s certainly not the 27th most popular spectator sport. That’s what it says in one of the articles in the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescolin Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 We have survived a long time. The best is yet to come. Some good thinking in process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescolin Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 The game will make some alterations that will make the sport more popular and bring in added revenue. After Covid lets get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 As I covered in a similar topic, participation in teams sports for 16+ has been on a steady decline. Rugby League has suffered but not as much as some (although based on smaller numbers). This is based on the Active Lives survey and uses a public survey method and so the data is not coming from the various sports governing bodies. Data below shows participation in the survey for period end Nov-16 to the survey for May-20 (then the change and Change %) Basketball: 325,200 to 264,600 (-60,600/-19%) Cricket: 364,600 to 294,000 (-70,600/-19%) Football: 2,299,000 to 1,866,200 (-432,800/-19%) Rugby League: 68,400 to 58,800 (-9,600/-14%) Rugby Union: 259,600 to 195,300 (-64,300/-25%) What is somewhat encouraging is that Rugby League increased from 57,500 in November 19 survey to 58,800 in the May 20 survey and was the only one of the teams sports above to post and increase in the most recent survey. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: That’s what it says in one of the articles in the OP It’s blatant rubbish then. If you can name six more popular spectator sports in England I’ll eat my hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Rugby league is the 27th most-popular sport in the country 1 hour ago, Eddie said: Using what criteria? It’s certainly not the 27th most popular spectator sport. 35 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: That’s what it says in one of the articles in the OP No it doesn't, it says participation figures showed rugby league was the 27th most-popular sport in the country based on ages 16 and over. So playing numbers, not spectators. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 It took until the 1st post (not including the OP) to to turn a positive thread to a negative one. Is this a record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 For interest, Rugby League is listed as the 41st most popular activity for those over 16+ in May 2020. The full list above Rugby League is below (in order of popularity). I will it to you to decide which are sports and which are activities. Running Fitness class Gym session1 Swimming Exercise machines1 Hill and mountain walking2 Interval sessions Weights session1 Generic fitness training1 Football Golf Boxing (includes boxing fitness classes) Badminton Tennis Rowing (includes indoor rowing)1 Table Tennis Climbing and bouldering2 Fell running Cricket Netball Equestrian Garden trampolining Squash Martial Arts Basketball Bowls Gymnastics (includes trampolining) Tai Chi Rugby Union Snowsport Track and field athletics Canoeing Surfing, board surfing, body boarding, kite surfing Hockey Angling Sailing Parkour or free running Shooting Rounders Ice skating "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dunbar said: No it doesn't, it says participation figures showed rugby league was the 27th most-popular sport in the country based on ages 16 and over. So playing numbers, not spectators. I find that very hard to believe. I cannot think of many individual sports that could possibly have bigger numbers. Unless they start counting "recreational" things like: jogging, running, walking, gym, cycling, fixed bicycle, weights etc. all as separate "sports". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dunbar said: For interest, Rugby League is listed as the 41st most popular activity for those over 16+ in May 2020. The full list above Rugby League is below (in order of popularity). I will it to you to decide which are sports and which are activities. As I thought, pretty dodgy list, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, langpark said: As I thought, pretty dodgy list, isn't it? Yes, but the Active Lives survey is really all about physical activity and the 'wellbeing' of the nation. So, they will always list any physical activity whether a sport or not. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 7 minutes ago, langpark said: As I thought, pretty dodgy list, isn't it? 5 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Yes, but the Active Lives survey is really all about physical activity and the 'wellbeing' of the nation. So, they will always list any physical activity whether a sport or not. It all depends what you are looking for. It's a valid list when looking at participation and how we get people involved in the sport, although the most important numbers fkr that are your own, it's not overly important to know how many play table tennis. But there are loads of ways of cutting it, we can do crowds, tv figures, players, a combination, commercial value etc. they'll all tell a slightly different story. It can be useful to check in and benchmark against others, but ultimately our own trends are what we need to really focus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhw Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave T said: Rugby League is the 5th most popular sport in the country. https://www.statista.com/statistics/686971/highest-attended-types-of-sport-in-the-uk/ Of course we can all just use whatever stats use our argument. Absolutely, often such statements are vague and little more than marketing or something similar. It would be better to state "xxx is the ....... based on ". Often you will find a mix of statistical information which can be misleading. For instance absolute numbers of a given situation, then in the same press release or article will use a different type of statistical information. London Broncos in their last stint in SL if they increase their attendance by as little as 500 that is a 25% increase, that would have been less than 4% for Leeds Rhinos. It is clear that a percentage figure sounds far more impressive than actual numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 yawn- why not just have an early night and see what happens next week xx see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhw Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 47 minutes ago, langpark said: As I thought, pretty dodgy list, isn't it? It depends on your criteria for popularity. Participation can be measured in several ways, as can attendances, TV ratings are highly dependent on the channel or platform and what other programs are being broadcast at the same time. How many people attend dog racing because their main reason is they love to watch dogs run. Compare the latter track athletics and you will get a vastly different result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 58 minutes ago, langpark said: As I thought, pretty dodgy list, isn't it? Seeing equestrian as high as it is on that list is all you need to know, after all we all have our own horse tethered in the back yard don’t we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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