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So Saints vs Leigh is been shown at £5 for the match... championship games will be shown live on there with Challenge cup games would it be better for them to go down the NRL watch route of £10/12 a month with extra content along with on demand of the other games as a catch up service also during the season? Also show old games of the NFP / Championship/NRC and Championship one games the clubs/ RFL own the rights if not  shown on sky... 

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18 minutes ago, Keep The Faith said:

So Saints vs Leigh is been shown at £5 for the match... championship games will be shown live on there with Challenge cup games would it be better for them to go down the NRL watch route of £10/12 a month with extra content along with on demand of the other games as a catch up service also during the season? Also show old games of the NFP / Championship/NRC and Championship one games the clubs/ RFL own the rights if not  shown on sky... 

£10-12 a month divided by the 24 clubs works out at a breakdown of between 41p-50p per club for their games being shown. And that’s before any costs are associated to the showing of twelve live games a weekend (e.g cost of equipment). It would be suicidal from a business perspective to price it at that range. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

£10-12 a month divided by the 24 clubs works out at a breakdown of between 41p-50p per club for their games being shown. And that’s before any costs are associated to the showing of twelve live games a weekend (e.g cost of equipment). It would be suicidal from a business perspective to price it at that range. 

 

Your maths are assuming only one person signs up though.

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2 minutes ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

Your maths are assuming only one person signs up though.

It’s not assuming that. Do you think there’d be enough to make it financially viable though? Take out season ticket holders (who will get games as part of being a season ticket holder) and you’re going to really struggle to get beyond a couple of thousand. 

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1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s not assuming that. Do you think there’d be enough to make it financially viable though? Take out season ticket holders (who will get games as part of being a season ticket holder) and you’re going to really struggle to get beyond a couple of thousand. 

This is the problem though, we really haven’t got a clue how many might subscribe, and of course we won’t have done any market research either.

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11 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s not assuming that. Do you think there’d be enough to make it financially viable though? Take out season ticket holders (who will get games as part of being a season ticket holder) and you’re going to really struggle to get beyond a couple of thousand. 

I'd suggest he was meaning there would be take up from ' RL ' fans not specific to one particular club , like say 50,000 SL club fans , but that wouldn't really happen , you might as you say get a couple thousand tops including those overseas or unable to get to ' live ' games 

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29 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s not assuming that. Do you think there’d be enough to make it financially viable though? Take out season ticket holders (who will get games as part of being a season ticket holder) and you’re going to really struggle to get beyond a couple of thousand. 

Our League in its current form is niche and will stay that way without a revamp. I don’t think the streaming plans will deliver much at all.
 

Personally I’d go more down a monthly RL subscription but even then I don’t think it would have the scale without the right level of support behind it.

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31 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd suggest he was meaning there would be take up from ' RL ' fans not specific to one particular club , like say 50,000 SL club fans , but that wouldn't really happen , you might as you say get a couple thousand tops including those overseas or unable to get to ' live ' games 

You still would get one live game on the Sunday or something but shown either 1pm or 6.30pm like they were gonna be in 2020 clubs could show it in their bars if owned of course etc... 

wouldn't clash with games and demand catch up by 8pm on a game day it's not rocket science... 

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s not assuming that. Do you think there’d be enough to make it financially viable though? Take out season ticket holders (who will get games as part of being a season ticket holder) and you’re going to really struggle to get beyond a couple of thousand. 

Even if you could get it to break even, or even a small loss because I feel if we don`t embrace this sort of thing it`s a bit like a business turning it`s back on the computer, because they are worried the staff will spend too much time socialising or emailing each other or whatever. We have to embrace all new technology and find a way to make it work for us.

And why should season ticket holders get it as part of their deal, if they want they can go home and watch it again. I don`t get that deal, they`re probably more likely than anyone to sign up, as long as it isn`t exorbitant.

There seems to be this fear that being able to watch it at home will stop people from going to the game, I think they are two completely separate things, people go because they want to be there in person to support their team and to make a bit of noise. Streaming for me could be ideal for people who want to watch a bit of League on a saturday or sunday afternoon or whenever and who don`t want to watch soccer or afl like over here yet who wouldn`t normally go to a game.

I think we can draw an analogy with Touch football, it`s using these things to bring people in to Rugby League, but either way I think we have to embrace it.

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7 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Even if you could get it to break even, or even a small loss because I feel if we don`t embrace this sort of thing it`s a bit like a business turning it`s back on the computer, because they are worried the staff will spend too much time socialising or emailing each other or whatever. We have to embrace all new technology and find a way to make it work for us.

And why should season ticket holders get it as part of their deal, if they want they can go home and watch it again. I don`t get that deal, they`re probably more likely than anyone to sign up, as long as it isn`t exorbitant.

There seems to be this fear that being able to watch it at home will stop people from going to the game, I think they are two completely separate things, people go because they want to be there in person to support their team and to make a bit of noise. Streaming for me could be ideal for people who want to watch a bit of League on a saturday or sunday afternoon or whenever and who don`t want to watch soccer or afl like over here yet who wouldn`t normally go to a game.

I think we can draw an analogy with Touch football, it`s using these things to bring people in to Rugby League, but either way I think we have to embrace it.

The season ticket thing is while we have lockdown and aren't allowed to attend in person 

Once back to normal ( whatever that looks like ) then yes it could be sold separately 

Tell me do the Queensland cup and NSW cup matches get streamed live ?

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8 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Even if you could get it to break even, or even a small loss because I feel if we don`t embrace this sort of thing it`s a bit like a business turning it`s back on the computer, because they are worried the staff will spend too much time socialising or emailing each other or whatever. We have to embrace all new technology and find a way to make it work for us.

And why should season ticket holders get it as part of their deal, if they want they can go home and watch it again. I don`t get that deal, they`re probably more likely than anyone to sign up, as long as it isn`t exorbitant.

There seems to be this fear that being able to watch it at home will stop people from going to the game, I think they are two completely separate things, people go because they want to be there in person to support their team and to make a bit of noise. Streaming for me could be ideal for people who want to watch a bit of League on a saturday or sunday afternoon or whenever and who don`t want to watch soccer or afl like over here yet who wouldn`t normally go to a game.

I think we can draw an analogy with Touch football, it`s using these things to bring people in to Rugby League, but either way I think we have to embrace it.

You’re getting far too ahead of yourself, assuming fans will be returning immediately.

Season ticket holders will get any home game streams as part of the agreement in buying a season ticket. It’s not only what has already been said by clubs but it’s already in use across other sports. They won’t be asked to pay additionally to view home games. 

 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

The season ticket thing is while we have lockdown and aren't allowed to attend in person 

Once back to normal ( whatever that looks like ) then yes it could be sold separately 

Tell me do the Queensland cup and NSW cup matches get streamed live ?

One game is selected for live in the Queensland cup 1pm on the Sunday and the rest are available on demand as catch up... 

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Wouldn’t contemplate an OuRLeague sub unless it’s easier to watch on a connected TV, like the Watch NRL app on Apple TV.

That's down to the RFL and an app technician to sort out! When I've watched games before on the our league app via my internet browser on the firestick it's works okay if the feed works... 

 

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1 minute ago, Keep The Faith said:

That's down to the RFL and an app technician to sort out! When I've watched games before on the our league app via my internet browser on the firestick it's works okay if the feed works... 

The last time there was free content on OurLeague was when I was having some internet troubles which took absolytely ages to sort out. I'd definitely want to check another free stream before I committed to paying for content, because OurLeague was just unusable for me at the time.

But whether it could cover streaming costs (for a decent presentation) and still provide worthwhile income for the clubs involved, I really don't know. I don't think anyone does, but it might be worth trying for a few months, to see what the uptake looked like.

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7 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

The last time there was free content on OurLeague was when I was having some internet troubles which took absolytely ages to sort out. I'd definitely want to check another free stream before I committed to paying for content, because OurLeague was just unusable for me at the time.

But whether it could cover streaming costs (for a decent presentation) and still provide worthwhile income for the clubs involved, I really don't know. I don't think anyone does, but it might be worth trying for a few months, to see what the uptake looked like.

The main focus is the lower tiers replacing lost central ( TV ) funding via streaming , but ultimately given the smaller fan base and profiles ,if it can't work for SL clubs financially ( covering costs ) then it won't work for the lower tiers , as ultimately production costs are the same which ever level you are at 

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Clubs, Super League and The RFL need to read the room better than the Premier League did when they announced they would charge its fans £14.95 to watch a game. I’m confident we’ll see games streamed via the clubs or OurLeague priced, largely, at £0-10 (the upper reaches being those who pay on the day) for friendlies/testimonials while clubs get up to speed with using the technology and once the seasons begin, pricing needs to be determined that’ll reflect what people are being given and the quality. I can’t see clubs being in a position to charge upwards of £10. 

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15 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Clubs, Super League and The RFL need to read the room better than the Premier League did when they announced they would charge its fans £14.95 to watch a game. I’m confident we’ll see games streamed via the clubs or OurLeague priced, largely, at £0-10 (the upper reaches being those who pay on the day) for friendlies/testimonials while clubs get up to speed with using the technology and once the seasons begin, pricing needs to be determined that’ll reflect what people are being given and the quality. I can’t see clubs being in a position to charge upwards of £10. 

The Super League scenario might depend on how many games are live on Sky anyway. The kick off around the Premier League PPV was a little odd considering the situation in the Football League and Scottish Premiership, both of which are good comparisons with Super League. The argument wasn't necessarily about paying per game, but more that you could have a month with four games that are screened across four different platforms (Sky, BT, Amazon, PPV) and the theory would be that you would have to subscribe to them all. In reality, solely PPV is a good deal in comparison! Read on if you're bored for a bit more meat on the bones for the EFL and Scottish Premier streaming.

We have three Bolton Wanderers season tickets in our household so we get a free stream (well, three of them) of home games, though non-season ticket holders can pay £10 per game which for 23 home games works out a LOT cheaper than the season tickets. Just as a tangent to that, it is worth noting that the Scottish Premiership streams have been priced very much with giving value to the season ticket holders, with some of the streams costing £15-£20 so that non-season ticket holders aren't paying less per game than the value of the season tickets. If memory serves me right, Celtic don't even offer a stream to non-season ticket holders. Doesn't do much for generating income from non-season ticket holders, but it does at least present value to those who stumped up at the start of the season without any idea of when they'd be allowed to watch in person.

Football League away games cost £10 each and are bought via your own club, with a certain amount going to the home club and the rest retained by the away side (assuming you bought through them). It's actually been commented that the away games have been quite a good earner given clubs would ordinarily only get 5% of ticket pre-sales revenue for an away game, sometimes only a few hundred quid, whereas they've been selling a good couple of thousand streaming passes. The games are streamed by iFollow which, although operating with virtually the entire EFL (72 clubs) each week, can be a little hit and miss. Very early in the season we figured the best way of viewing is to bring our desktop PC downstairs and hook it up to the 'big telly' with a HDMI cable. One camera, albeit with replays and graphics, with a main commentator and co-commentator. The stream runs about 30 seconds behind 'live' so best not to have BBC radio commentary etc on in the background and turn off live score updates on your mobile.

Notably when it comes to a Super League context, the one Bolton game that was on Sky this season was available for season ticket holders to stream as normal, but the £10 iFollow option was not available. It is a similar story for Scottish Premiership games, albeit overseas subscribers can still pay for a stream.

If you're still awake after all that then you're a better man than me. 

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I think Clubs and the league are thinking about this the wrong way regarding Season Ticket holders vs matchday streamers.

One off stream purchases should be seen as a bit of a bonus really, just as walkup matchday tickets are.

Season Tickets as a concept are now facing a whole new reality and I think we could use this season to drive a cultural change for the better in this regard. See season tickets as club memberships, right now there's not really much of a traditional season ticket to offer, so there needs to be some lateral thinking. They can encompass virtual season passes, which if all being well could actually be popular for some fans well after Covid, allowing them to connect to their club wherever they are. They can be used to connect fans on Social media or in their local area. Equally, membership encourages longer term buy in and increases the value of a supporter to a club. 

On a simple basis, making a season ticket a club membership, with virtual viewing rights, guarantees income for clubs regardless of the number of individual paid for streams. Clubs should be shouting from the rooftops about this as a concept rather than moaning that they won't make much money out of streaming.

As of October 2020, 15 current Championship and League 1 clubs (and not all heartland based), had over 2000 registered members on OuRLeague. Almost every club as far as I can tell had figures way beyond their usual attendance average. This is a prime audience to sell low commitment, high visibility memberships to and is a market clubs absolutely have to be looking to monetise. Imo the best way to do this would be to see a virtual season ticket not as a hinderance, but an opportunity.

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https://www.rugby-league.com/article/57675/spring-streaming-bonanza-to-kick-off-the--season-

The 2021 Rugby League season will begin with a feast of Betfred Challenge Cup action next month as all eight First Round ties will be streamed across three platforms. 

And it will be a similar story when the Betfred Championship kicks off over the Easter weekend two weeks later, with all seven fixtures in the opening round available to watch through Our League, on both web & app - and now with the option to cast to TV to enjoy all the action on the big screen. 
<snip>

Other Rugby League fans – including supporters of the away club – will be able to secure the live coverage for an Early Bird price of £4.95, which increases to £10 on the day of the match. 

A Day Pass will cost £15 and secure live coverage of all fixtures on a given day (for example four Betfred Challenge Cup ties on Saturday March 20). 

A Weekend Pass will cost £20 and secure live coverage of all the matches being shown on Our League in a full round (for example five of the eight Betfred Challenge Cup ties on March 20-21, and all seven matches in Round One of the Betfred Championship from April 2-4). 

 

Edited by Man of Kent
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On 16/02/2021 at 23:05, Futtocks said:

The last time there was free content on OurLeague was when I was having some internet troubles which took absolytely ages to sort out. I'd definitely want to check another free stream before I committed to paying for content, because OurLeague was just unusable for me at the time.

But whether it could cover streaming costs (for a decent presentation) and still provide worthwhile income for the clubs involved, I really don't know. I don't think anyone does, but it might be worth trying for a few months, to see what the uptake looked like.

One cost that always gets overlooked in these fag packet calculations is customer service.

If even giants like Amazon, who power their own streaming services as well as the likes of Netflix, F1's streaming platform as well as a good proportion of ecommerce or app-based services through AWS, can struggle to supply live sport without hiccups, you can bet your bottom dollar that an app concoted by the RFL is probably going to need a bit of customer support behind it.  

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